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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Is everyone given a chance?
- Thread starter jeff77
- Start date
Gary
Member
Who is Paul referring to in that chapter? Believers or nonbelievers? When he says they are without excuse, who are they?
I believe he's referencing believers. It's the believers who are without excuse.
Thoughts.
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Why would Paul be preaching the gospel to the saved?
Christians dont do this... Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
I believe mankind know in his heart there is something bigger then himself... Something he is looking for.. I believe God placed that yearning in man... to me that is what verse 19 is talking about..
Christians dont do this... Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
I believe mankind know in his heart there is something bigger then himself... Something he is looking for.. I believe God placed that yearning in man... to me that is what verse 19 is talking about..
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Gary
Member
The entire book of Romans is directed to the saved.
Romans 1
7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Do you see it?
Now:
From verse 18 on, Paul is making reference to believers or those who believe they are saved. He's teaching the saved (in Rome) by giving them examples of believers, their unrighteous behavior and the consequences they will suffer. When he says they are without excuse, he talking about believers behaving badly. They know what they should be doing but they're not doing it. They're giving in to the lusts of the flesh, are unrepentant and Paul teaches that there's a penalty for that.
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Yup i see what Romans 1:8 says I have quoted that verse often when some one says
Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
So here we are i am posting in #25 And i am telling you a Christian as Paul was speaking to Christians. (Yikes i am not like Paul)
Ya know Gary people all over these forums are saved isnt our God wonderful His grace His mercy wow..
Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
So here we are i am posting in #25 And i am telling you a Christian as Paul was speaking to Christians. (Yikes i am not like Paul)
Ya know Gary people all over these forums are saved isnt our God wonderful His grace His mercy wow..
Gary
Member
God gave people morals. The instinct to know right from wrong, good from evil. I don't believe He instilled in man the desire to seek after a god. Look at all the gods there are in the world. I don't believe the Lord would want anyone caught up in that mess. In the end the Lord will be seeking the doers of the Law. One doesn't have to be a born again believer to be a doer of the Law. This is covered in the 1st half of chapter 2.
I have a question. How many nonbelievers know what the righteous judgment of God Is? How would they know that the penalties of their behavior is death? How would they know this without someone telling them?
Romans 1
32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
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With this I will leave you to your thoughts .. to go farther would derail the thread.. seems about every continent has a story of a flood..
Gen_7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Gen_7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Gary
Member
Only one of those stories points to the God of Israel. How would anyone know that unless they were told? God can't realistically expect people to make that connection. It's just not possible.
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The Law of Moses has one theme: With man, salvation is impossible.
The Law of Christ: With God all things are possible.
Embroiled in a typical argument with an atheist coworker who I witnessed to for years... most often in response to a dig or a slight he aimed at me or Christianity... he gave the very typical question "how fair is it that a man in the deep jungle of South America who never even heard of Jesus is sent to hell when he dies?" The Spirit bade me to respond... "How do you know you were not supposed to be the missionary to tell him about Jesus?"
In other words, don't use this as an excuse not to believe. You worry about yourself. Deal with the decision. And leave the rest to God.
That's my response to the subject for the benefit of any unbelievers who might be lurking. For the believers...
God always knew who will believe in Jesus. He will not allow a believer to live life without the opportunity to believe. In fact one of the reasons history is taking so long is that believers have to be placed in the particular point of history where they will receive and believe. This is what the scriptures was talking about our being able to hasten the day of the Lord's return (meaning if we'd get serious about the faith and our individual calling and get to it doing the Master's bidding... history would go a lot faster for the witness of believers would be super sized). But sadly we are too worldly... too traditional... too part-time Christians...
(A&T guidelines state in part: "Subsequent opposing responses should include references to supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation for the contrary understanding." Even if you quote the scripture, you still have to list the chapter and verse reference. Obadiah)
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Not sure I understand your point, Gary.
One way to look at the flood account is that even if inaccurate the accounts of legend validate that a global flood took place affecting all races of humanity. That being passed down through the various generations and traditions and myths and false religions you end up with the Gilgamesh epic etc. But at least it is a non-biblical validation that a great flood of some sort took place.
Now the Bible is tried and true and by the various methods of validating it as the Word of God we can use the flood account in it as the eyewitness account of God as dictated to his scribe Moses. Ergo, the biblical account (even if not the oldest account) is the true / accurate account. The dictation of the eyewitness account merely took place after the cuneiform record of the Gilgamesh epic and others were recorded.
Gary
Member
My point is, nonbelievers are not going to make the connection. Here's the passage being discussed. The flood account was used to validate this passage.
Romans 1
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Here are some bits from that passage.
What may be known of God is manifest in them: How does a nonbeliever gather knowledge about the God of Israel by simply listening to one of the many flood accounts?
For God has shown it to them: How is a nonbeliever suppose to know what is from God and what isn't?
His invisible attributes are clearly seen: Again, how is a nonbeliever suppose to make that connection? If they don't believe in God, those invisible attributes are just that, invisible. They can't see them nor are they looking for them. The only way for His invisible attributes to be seen is for a believer to look upon them. Those invisible attributes are proof to the believer but mean nothing to the nonbeliever.
Being understood: Hearing the various flood accounts isn't going to give you understanding of who God is.
Even His eternal power and Godhead: Again, listening to the flood accounts isn't going to give the nonbeliever any kind of wisdom, knowledge or understanding. To the nonbeliever it's just a story.
The flood accounts aren't proof of God to someone who doesn't believe in God. And I don't believe God is going to hold someone accountable for not picking His version of the flood over all the rest.
That's just how I see it.
One last thing.
So that they are without excuse: I believe that these are people who profess Christ. From verse 18 on, I believe Paul is making reference to believers behaving badly. He's teaching the consequences of not putting God first.
That's my point.
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Since I cannot edit post number 30 in this thread I am reposting it with the missing scripture references added in.
The Law of Moses has one theme: With man, salvation is impossible. (Matthew 19:26a)
The Law of Christ: With God all things are possible. (Matthew 19:26b)
Embroiled in a typical argument with an atheist coworker who I witnessed to for years... most often in response to a dig or a slight he aimed at me or Christianity... he gave the very typical question "how fair is it that a man in the deep jungle of South America who never even heard of Jesus is sent to hell when he dies?" The Spirit bade me to respond... "How do you know you were not supposed to be the missionary to tell him about Jesus?" (Esther 4:14)
In other words, don't use this as an excuse not to believe. You worry about yourself. Deal with the decision. And leave the rest to God. (John 14:1 / John 21:22)
That's my response to the subject for the benefit of any unbelievers who might be lurking. For the believers...
God always knew who will believe in Jesus. (Ephesians 2:10 - Acts 15:18 / Romans 8:29 / Isaiah 46:10 - Acts 1:7)
He will not allow a believer to live life without the opportunity to believe. (John 17:12)
In fact one of the reasons history is taking so long is that believers have to be placed in the particular point of history where they will receive and believe. (Esther 4:14 / Romans 8:29) This is what the scriptures was talking about our being able to hasten the day of the Lord's return (2 Peter 3:12) meaning if we'd get serious about the faith and our individual calling and get to it doing the Master's bidding... history would go a lot faster for the witness of believers would be super sized. But sadly we are too worldly... too traditional... too part-time Christians... (2 Thessalonians 2:3b / 2 Timothy 4:3 / 2 Peter 3:3 / Jude 18).
I sincerely hope this is not another infraction of Cfnet rules and that all parties are satisfied.
The Law of Moses has one theme: With man, salvation is impossible. (Matthew 19:26a)
The Law of Christ: With God all things are possible. (Matthew 19:26b)
Embroiled in a typical argument with an atheist coworker who I witnessed to for years... most often in response to a dig or a slight he aimed at me or Christianity... he gave the very typical question "how fair is it that a man in the deep jungle of South America who never even heard of Jesus is sent to hell when he dies?" The Spirit bade me to respond... "How do you know you were not supposed to be the missionary to tell him about Jesus?" (Esther 4:14)
In other words, don't use this as an excuse not to believe. You worry about yourself. Deal with the decision. And leave the rest to God. (John 14:1 / John 21:22)
That's my response to the subject for the benefit of any unbelievers who might be lurking. For the believers...
God always knew who will believe in Jesus. (Ephesians 2:10 - Acts 15:18 / Romans 8:29 / Isaiah 46:10 - Acts 1:7)
He will not allow a believer to live life without the opportunity to believe. (John 17:12)
In fact one of the reasons history is taking so long is that believers have to be placed in the particular point of history where they will receive and believe. (Esther 4:14 / Romans 8:29) This is what the scriptures was talking about our being able to hasten the day of the Lord's return (2 Peter 3:12) meaning if we'd get serious about the faith and our individual calling and get to it doing the Master's bidding... history would go a lot faster for the witness of believers would be super sized. But sadly we are too worldly... too traditional... too part-time Christians... (2 Thessalonians 2:3b / 2 Timothy 4:3 / 2 Peter 3:3 / Jude 18).
I sincerely hope this is not another infraction of Cfnet rules and that all parties are satisfied.
dianegcook
Member
Ezek.chapter 40-48
Is about the 1000 year reign.
44:15,16, sons of Zadok, Elect, just, shall enter in His sanctuary.
23, they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean,
24, they shall stand in judgment.
25, And they shall come at no dead person (spiritually dead) to defile themselves, but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.
I believe, everyone hasn't heard the truth, thus God is fair to all to at least give them a chance.
These will not enter the temple.
Rev.20:3-13
Satan will be shut up till the 1000 years should be fulfilled.
4, those who overcame lived and reigned with Christ,
5; but the rest of the dead ( spiritually ) lived not again until the 1000 years were finished.
6; Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a 1000 years.
7;8,Then Satan shall be loosed to deceive the nations,
The ones outside the sanctuary will be tested.
If they overcome this temptation, they shall live, be, so called resurrected to the truth.
We have the Great White Throne Judgment, and the dead ( spiritually dead) shall be judged.
God is fair and just.
jeff77
Member
When I started the thread I was mainly thinking about people who have heard the Gospel, access to the Bible,etc... I had recently had a chance to witness to some people and listen to the reasons why they don't believe in Jesus. Most of them were agnostic and not atheist. They had doubts about whether certain parts of the Bible were true or not. A friend of mine that is agnostic says he "questions everything" when it comes to the Bible and religion in general. Guess what he does believe to be true.....Aliens...he has so many doubts about the Bible but, believes that all our advanced technology was given to us by aliens and that certain people in the government are really super intelligent aliens that have taken on the form of a human. What is interesting is that he admits that he has no proof that his alien theories are true either.
Sounds like this person has faith but in the wrong place.
turnorburn
Member
i see verses from the book of Romans did i miss these?
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Another thing i see are the cults, they have witnesses coming to my door but no Christians, they understand this verse, where are we in all of this?
14:How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
tob
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Another thing i see are the cults, they have witnesses coming to my door but no Christians, they understand this verse, where are we in all of this?
14:How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
tob
Gary
Member
Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
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