Destruction of America and rapture

[jasonc]

But pornography isn't, so...

Anyway, it's not my reasoning. I'm trying to give examples in response to the reasoning reba used for the AC thing earlier.

I'm only going to concede that if you can tell me that I don't need the blood but can atone in the temple,after all its Holy again

 

[smaller]

We are the body of christ, I don't have any devils and we were not given the spirit of fear or anything devil related. I never herd this theory before.

Yeah, I hear that story a lot. "I'm not a sinner and my sin isn't of the devil."

Standing next to 2 Cor. 12:7, Phil. 3:21, 1 Tim. 1:15, 1 John 1:8, 1 John 3:8 and many many others like them I might not find such statements credible, at all.

Yes the Revelation will transpire IN us and in order to for that to be fulfilled sin and it's agents, the devils, must be destroyed in the temple of MAN.

Jesus didn't spend His Life waging war against the devil and his messengers in vain. He dealt with them IN MAN during His entire ministry on earth.

And the devil just LOVES to get believers looking at any other direction for destruction other than to himself, such as America.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[JLB]

for then they say Peace and Safety, Nothing going on, and BAM, according to you Jesus comes.

17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 4:17-5:4


These verse's teach us the following:

• we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The context is the resurrection/rapture of the Church, which takes place at His coming.
The resurrection of the dead in Christ, happen just before the rapture, whereby both are caught up together.

• For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

The context is plainly describing the coming of the Lord, at the R/R, and destruction of the wicked.

• For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

The destruction of the wicked, at the coming of the Lord, on the Day of the Lord comes suddenly and unexpected, and none of them will escape the destruction that comes from the Lord, of which, the false Christ is personally destroyed by the brightness of His coming.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

• But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

The Day of the Lord, whereby He comes for His people, and with those who sleep, will not be as a thief in the night for the Church, but for the world of unbelievers.


JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

Or, to paraphrase, "Instead of posting thousands of times on Christian Forums, try feeding the homeless; getting them bottles of water, clean socks, toilet articles, etc." If there is a distinction between "making videos" and "authoring posts," it seems to me a distinction without a difference. Or is the distinction between "making videos with which I happen to disagree" and "authoring posts full of my sound wisdom"?

You got a point?

 

[Endtime_Survivors]

I'm only going to concede that if you can tell me that I don't need the blood but can atone in the temple,after all its Holy again

The context of that particular discussion was about what words are, or are not, found in scripture. The point I was making is that it shouldn't matter if the word "pornography" is found in the Bible or not, because we're not meant to follow the legalistic letter of the law, but rather the spirit of the law.

In the same way it shouldn't matter if the AC isn't referred to in scripture by that particular title, because the title suits him better than anyone else.

 

[reba]

Any more violations of TOS 2.2 the member will be pointed.

 

[JLB]

We are the body of christ, I don't have any devils and we were not given the spirit of fear or anything devil related. I never herd this theory before.

Amen Brother, I agree.

This belief comes from 2 Corinthians 12:7 -

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 2 Corinthians 12:7

There are some that believe the thorn in the flesh, really means, the messenger of Satan was in Paul's flesh.

Thorn in the flesh, is a Jewish idiom for a source of irritation or frustration, kinda like we would say, that guy is a pain in the ____.

Those that believe Paul was referring to a messenger of Satan literally being in Paul's flesh, have taken an idiomatic term "thorn in the flesh" and mixed it together with a messenger of Satan, to form the idea that a messenger of Satan was in Paul's flesh.

Furthermore, those that believe this, also quote a "part" 1 John 3:8, which says -

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

So those that believe this way say... Sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8

Which to them means, the sin that Paul says is in our flesh [Romans 7:18-21], is the devil, so it's the devil doing the sinning, and not us, because sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil [Satan] I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. Romans 7:18-21


The problem is 1 John 3:8 doesn't say sin is of the devil, it says... He who sins is of the devil...The person who sins, is of the devil.


That's is where the idea comes from that the man of sin [Satan] is in all of our flesh [Temple of God].

There is much more, but that should give you a general idea where this belief comes from.

Now, if I have misquoted or misrepresented this person's belief in some way, I will edit this post and change was is wrong.


JLB

 

[jasonc]

The context of that particular discussion was about what words are, or are not, found in scripture. The point I was making is that it shouldn't matter if the word "pornography" is found in the Bible or not, because we're not meant to follow the legalistic letter of the law, but rather the spirit of the law.

In the same way it shouldn't matter if the AC isn't referred to in scripture by that particular title, because the title suits him better than anyone else.

The persons who Jesus was speaking too in Matthew 24,Luke 21,werent listening or being adressed.figure that out then you will see why you must concede that either the ac isn't coming ,has come and is judged,or is as reba says.or concede that the temple is Holy again.in Paul's day it was,he atoned there as he took a Nazarite vow.it was that temple and jews Jesus was talking about.not some future one.first audience who told the accounts orally first has to be considered.

 

[smaller]

There are some that believe the thorn in the flesh, really means, the messenger of Satan was in Paul's flesh.

Thorn in the flesh, is a Jewish idiom for a source of irritation or frustration, kinda like we would say, that guy is a pain in the ____.

Those that believe Paul was referring to a messenger of Satan literally being in Paul's flesh, have taken an idiomatic term "thorn in the flesh" and mixed it together with a messenger of Satan, to form the idea that a messenger of Satan was in Paul's flesh.

Fortunately the foundation Christian positional statements at this site include the fact that the devil and his messengers are real entities. So yes, the messenger of Satan IS REAL, not an idiom. And that messenger of Satan was PUT upon Paul by God per Paul's description and was in fact IN Paul's flesh which flesh was not an idiom either.

 

[smaller]

Saying America is going to be destroyed by God is very much like saying only in America does sin exist.

Gods Judgment is and remains firmly fixed against all evil and all sin in anyone and everyone. This much is a very certain fact.

 

[JLB]

Fortunately the foundation Christian positional statements at this site include the fact that the devil and his messengers are real entities.

Yes the devil and his angels are real.

So yes, the messenger of Satan IS REAL, not an idiom.

Yes, a messenger of Satan is real.

The idiom, as I have stated many times, is the phrase "thorn in the flesh", which is likened to our phrase of "pain in the ___".

The fact that you are trying to change the argument, by substituting one topic for another, is evident to all.

You changed the topic of the idiom from "thorn in the flesh", to Satan and his messengers, in an attempt to discredit what I am saying.

And that messenger of Satan was PUT upon Paul by God per Paul's description and was in fact IN Paul's flesh which flesh was not an idiom either.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 1 Corinthians 12:7

• The messenger of Satan was real.
• The messenger of Satan was given to Paul... because of the abundance of the revelations... for a specific purpose.
• The purpose that the messenger of Satan was given to Paul was... lest I be exalted above measure.

This condition was unique to Paul.... lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, and does not say the messenger of Satan was "in his flesh", but rather it was given to him to buffet him.

This condition was unique to Paul, and was not a condition that was given to all of Christianity, as you keep saying.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Amen Brother, I agree.

This belief comes from 2 Corinthians 12:7 -

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 2 Corinthians 12:7

There are some that believe the thorn in the flesh, really means, the messenger of Satan was in Paul's flesh.

Thorn in the flesh, is a Jewish idiom for a source of irritation or frustration, kinda like we would say, that guy is a pain in the ____.

Those that believe Paul was referring to a messenger of Satan literally being in Paul's flesh, have taken an idiomatic term "thorn in the flesh" and mixed it together with a messenger of Satan, to form the idea that a messenger of Satan was in Paul's flesh.

Furthermore, those that believe this, also quote a "part" 1 John 3:8, which says -

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

So those that believe this way say... Sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8

Which to them means, the sin that Paul says is in our flesh [Romans 7:18-21], is the devil, so it's the devil doing the sinning, and not us, because sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil [Satan] I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. Romans 7:18-21


The problem is 1 John 3:8 doesn't say sin is of the devil, it says... He who sins is of the devil...The person who sins, is of the devil.


That's is where the idea comes from that the man of sin [Satan] is in all of our flesh [Temple of God].

There is much more, but that should give you a general idea where this belief comes from.

Now, if I have misquoted or misrepresented this person's belief in some way, I will edit this post and change was is wrong.


JLB

I agree, Smaller has some very strange idea's about things.

 

[smaller]

Yes the devil and his angels are real.

Well, some people like to try to play this both ways. They'll concede that the devil is real, that sin is real and that sin is of the devil. Just not their sin. I consider that a very sleepy time posture, to be polite.

Yes, a messenger of Satan is real.

The idiom, as I have stated many times, is the phrase "thorn in the flesh", which is likened to our phrase of "pain in the ___".

Paul's statement was a statement of fact. He had a real messenger of Satan purposefully put upon his own flesh by God. That messenger of Satan in is flesh was not an idiom, but a reality.

This same reality is shown by Paul's statement of having "evil present" with him in Romans 7:21 and describing the sin that dwelt in his flesh as NO LONGER I twice in Romans 7:17-20. All of these are direct reflections of Mark 4:15, which is very much a reality, not an idiom. These things are described in parable or allegory connections because they deal with the unseen, in order for us to "link" our understandings to the unseen in "like" or "as" terms, but what they convey are REAL matters.

It is entirely obvious that people just don't care to hear of it for themselves and their own sin in relation to the devil, that's all. And I blame that on the culprits, not the blinded victims.

 

[smaller]

I agree, Smaller has some very strange idea's about things.

I submit to scriptures conclusions. Paul said to follow him as he followed Christ. So I did and I share my discoveries, which interestingly are seldom heard or shared, because they are an offense to the flesh. And these things that scripture describes are totally meant to offend the flesh of all of us.

If your flesh hasn't been offended by scripture you ain't heard it yet.

The Spirit is factually against the flesh and remains so for all of us post salvation. This is what a lot of believers really just don't care to hear. Gal. 5:17 IS a present reality for all of us.

 

[JLB]

They'll concede that the devil is real, that sin is real and that sin is of the devil.

All you have to do is post the scripture that backs up you claim that sin is of the devil, rather than people who sin are of the devil.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Paul's statement was a statement of fact. He had a real messenger of Satan purposefully put upon his own flesh by God. That messenger of Satan in is flesh was not an idiom, but a reality.

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 1 Corinthians 12:

No such scripture as Satan in Paul's flesh.

The scripture plainly says "thorn in the flesh", not Satan in his flesh.

Then you try to ascribe what was unique to Paul...lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, to all Christians.

Yes, a messenger of Satan is real.

The idiom, as I have stated many times, is the phrase "thorn in the flesh", which is likened to our phrase of "pain in the ___".

The fact that you are trying to change the argument, by substituting one topic for another, is evident to all.

You changed the topic of the idiom from "thorn in the flesh", to Satan and his messengers, in an attempt to discredit what I am saying.



JLB

 

[smaller]

All you have to do is post the scripture that backs up you claim that sin is of the devil, rather than people who sin are of the devil.

JLB

I think we have exercised the fact that you and I read the statements of facts very differently. I read them as facts and am not looking for excuses for my flesh.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

We all should readily be able to see sin. Sin still exists. So, did Jesus come to destroy AMERICA? Uh, no. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, which is SIN.

Has that happened yet? No. It is not America that Jesus came to destroy, but sin, which is DEMONIC.

Therefore when the devil himself is "separated" from the flesh of man, which can ONLY be performed by DIVINE POWER, not man's power, THEN we will see the promise of the Gospel actually fulfilled.

Focusing on America and neglecting the real culprits is a waste of time, theologically speaking.

 

[smaller]

You changed the topic of the idiom from "thorn in the flesh", to Satan and his messengers, in an attempt to discredit what I am saying.
JLB

There are zero statements available by any theological premise that will convince me that sin is not of the devil OR that christians are NOT in fact sinners. These should be rather obvious conclusions to anyone who accepts the scriptures.

It's only unfortunate when any believer is blinded and NOT able to make that connection to their own sin and are led rather to excuse themselves from the facts. But this too is done by Divine Intentions and there really is nothing such can do about it.

It is God Himself who chooses to empower our adversary, that He might show His Own Power over same to the believer. But the believer must be led by God to submit to those conclusions. When God wants anyone to see these things as the reality of their flesh, they'll see it.

Until then they are Divinely Intentionally blinded, just as Israel was blinded. Romans 11:8.

How does that blindness transpire. Mark 4:15 is still a working principle to this day.

 

[JLB]

There are zero statements available by any theological premise that will convince me that sin is not of the devil OR that christians are NOT in fact sinners. These should be rather obvious conclusions to anyone who accepts the scriptures.

It's only unfortunate when any believer is blinded and NOT able to make that connection to their own sin and are led rather to excuse themselves from the facts. But this too is done by Divine Intentions and there really is nothing such can do about it.

It is God Himself who chooses to empower our adversary, that He might show His Own Power over same to the believer. But the believer must be led by God to submit to those conclusions. When God wants anyone to see these things as the reality of their flesh, they'll see it.

None of these explanations of yours answer's as to why, you would attempt to change the topic of the idiom from "thorn in the flesh", to Satan and his messengers, in an attempt to discredit what I am saying.

"thorn in the flesh" is an idiomatic [slang] term for a source of frustration, or irritation.

The messenger of Satan was sent to buffet Paul, not enter into his flesh.

You have "mixed" these to phrases together, to form your own unique doctrine.


JLB

 

[JLB]

When God wants anyone to see these things as the reality of their flesh, they'll see it.

Now you are attempting to say that God himself is keeping us all blind to the fact that He is the one who gives all Christians messengers of Satan in our flesh, until "He wants us to see it".

Why would God send a messenger of Satan to dwell in our flesh?


JLB