How do you choose a church?

[Papa Zoom]

same old snake oil..

yep.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks to all that participated.
I was actually shocked by the results. I did not expect 'Teaches me the Bible', and 'It's small' to be the big reasons. That goes against the current church growth thinking.

 

[reba]

maybe that is why we are here..

 

[Corn Pop]

Grace + Law = Law

 

[Jethro Bodine]

maybe that is why we are here..

I had considered that the group being polled is skewed.
And for more reasons than just us being a group that is looking for more in depth study and discussion. I'm guessing most of us here came to Christ out of conviction of sin, not because the church had a rock concert. We're special that way. The sad part is, we are not influential enough that churches should cater to our particular needs for Bible studies and smaller meetings.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Grace + Law = Law

If you mean 'law' in terms of 'being justified by works of the law', then, yes this is true: Grace + Law = the condemnation of the Law.

I have learned one has to be specific about what they mean when they start talking about the law because grace through faith upholds the law (Romans 3:31 NASB). The grace of God's forgiveness moves us to want to fulfill the righteousness of the law, not cast it down. So in that sense of the law, it is expected that grace + law would equal a fulfilling of the law, not the condemnation of the law.

 

[Corn Pop]

If you mean 'law' in terms of 'being justified by works of the law', then, yes this is true: Grace + Law = the condemnation of the Law.

I have learned one has to be specific about what they mean when they start talking about the law because grace through faith upholds the law (Romans 3:31 NASB). The grace of God's forgiveness moves us to want to fulfill the righteousness of the law, not cast it down. So in that sense of the law, it is expected that grace + law would equal a fulfilling of the law, not the condemnation of the law.

And Christ said seek first the Kingdom and his gospel was preaching the Kingdom of God. The Gospel is the Kingdom of God, yet not many preach the Kingdom of God.

 

[Silmarien]

I'm guessing most of us here came to Christ out of conviction of sin, not because the church had a rock concert.

Eh, I kind of just stumbled and fell. Haven't quite come to Christ yet, but there's a distinct possibility that we're chatting on the way to Emmaus.

I put "teaches the Bible" too, though I mean it more in terms of not wanting a secular church masquerading as a Christian church. I'd also prefer one that challenges me a bit and doesn't just say what I want it to say.

I also put small, community outreach, and denomination. A rock concert is precisely what I'm not interested in, though I'm bemused that people think that secularists who finally can't handle secularism anymore would just want more of the same.

 

[Corn Pop]

I didn't come to Christ out of conviction of sin. I called on Christ because I was unstable and lost in life and needed a good role model. I needed a solid foundation to put my faith and trust in.

 

[Corn Pop]

First seek the Kingdom of God that is seeking God's righteousness, and if we do sin there is a mediator. As long as we are seeking the Kingdom of God that is the will of God, that is seeking his righteousness and that is the Gospel.

I dont think we are to worry about sin, even sin is not good, but seek the Kingdom of God first and that has power over sin.

If one believes in Christ and has faith they believe if they sin Christ has forgiven there sin as they also forgive others and seek the Kingdom of God.

I think some may have it wrong with conviction, guilt, and sin. Thats not seeking the Kingdom of God.

Look to the Kingdom of God, repent just means, stop, turn, and seek the Kingdom where there is no conviction.

Listen to Paul.

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."

 

[Corn Pop]

Seek first the Kingdom.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm bemused that people think that secularists who finally can't handle secularism anymore would just want more of the same.

Which tells me they're still secularists. No change has occurred. They just found that the church gives them what they have in the world, and so they are attracted to the fact that they can have it both ways in many modern churches. Of course I'm speaking very generally from a 10,000 ft. altitude over things.

 

[Nathan]

I didn't come to Christ out of conviction of sin. I called on Christ because I was unstable and lost in life and needed a good role model. I needed a solid foundation to put my faith and trust in.

Dan this is troubling to me. Christ did not come to earth to be a good role model. He did not come to earth to be a solid foundation. He came to earth to be crucified for the sins of the world - subsequently He also showed us the way, the truth, and the life. First and foremost He is the Lamb of God.

I'll be quite honest, you cannot come to Christ unless you are convicted of sin. Everyone in this world is born 'headed' one direction - in sin. They only turn to Christ when sin is repented of. You are not going to repent from sin if you are not convicted of sin. If you have never been convicted of sin, you have never repented of it, and you have never come to Christ.

Maybe your words just did not come out right? Did you mean to say something else?

 

[Silmarien]

Which tells me they're still secularists. No change has occurred. They just found that the church gives them what they have in the world, and so they are attracted to the fact that they can have it both ways in many modern churches. Of course I'm speaking very generally from a 10,000 ft. altitude over things.

The only problem with that is that from an altitude of 10,000 ft., it's impossible to know what's going on in a secularist's head! Is it that all they want is secularized religion, or that the only thing they've come across is secularized religion and they have to settle for it because they don't know there's anything else? It feels like it could be a bit of a Plato's Cave situation to me. I see so much crazed, out of control spirituality that I don't think people are as happy with secularism as they themselves believe.

 

[Corn Pop]

Dan this is troubling to me. Christ did not come to earth to be a good role model. He did not come to earth to be a solid foundation. He came to earth to be crucified for the sins of the world - subsequently He also showed us the way, the truth, and the life. First and foremost He is the Lamb of God.

I'll be quite honest, you cannot come to Christ unless you are convicted of sin. Everyone in this world is born 'headed' one direction - in sin. They only turn to Christ when sin is repented of. You are not going to repent from sin if you are not convicted of sin. If you have never been convicted of sin, you have never repented of it, and you have never come to Christ.

Maybe your words just did not come out right? Did you mean to say something else?

But he is a role model. A sinless man who spoke the truth, and he said follow me, he raised the dead and healed the sick, and said love one another as i have loved you. I would say thats a good role model.

Why would you have faith and trust in Christ and try live a Christ like life forgiven and loving others if you don't think he is a good role model.

 

[Nathan]

But he is a role model. A sinless man who spoke the truth, and he said follow me, he raised the dead and healed the sick, and said love one another as i have loved you. I would say thats a good role model.

Why would you have faith and trust in Christ and try live a Christ like life forgiven and loving others if you don't think he is a good role model.

The reason you would have faith and trust in Christ is because there is no other way to be forgiven of your sin.

The world did, and does not, need a role model. The world needed a Savior to be the only perfect sacrifice for sin before a Holy God.

God made a way to be reconciled to Him, and I assure you it's not by following a good role model - it is by following a Savior who is Christ the Lord.

 

[Corn Pop]

The reason you would have faith and trust in Christ is because there is no other way to be forgiven of your sin.

The world did, and does not, need a role model. The world needed a Savior to be the only perfect sacrifice for sin before a Holy God.

God made a way to be reconciled to Him, and I assure you it's not by following a good role model - it is by following a Savior who is Christ the Lord.

But he is still a role model, even he is other things. A teacher is a role model just like parents are suppose to be role model to there children and lead by good example, because they teach, and if you believe Jesus is a teacher and believe his words then he is a role model.

 

[Edward]

You Brothers are both right, lol. Nathan makes a good point that Jesus is first and foremost our savior, and He's lots of other stuff too, our healer, our teacher, our Master, Brother, friend, Husband...He has many names. You put all that together and you have the best role-model, lol.

Role model is actually a pretty good perspective. We are to take on the mind of Christ, having been transformed to have His heart, mind...His character no less. In the name of Jesus, the Christ. In the character, of Jesus, the Christ.

 

[Nathan]

But he is still a role model, even he is other things. A teacher is a role model just like parents are suppose to be role model to there children and lead by good example, because they teach, and if you believe Jesus is a teacher and believe his words then he is a role model.

I've never read anywhere in the Bible that He was a role model. Master, Lord, Savior, God, etc - but never role model.

We are like Him, and do the things He did, simply and only because His Spirit is in us leading us.

We must consider Him the Savior first and foremost or nothinging else we consider Him to be makes a difference. There are many different religions that believe He was a good man and even a prophet.

Do you trust in Him alone as your Savior dan?

 

[Corn Pop]

I've never read anywhere in the Bible that He was a role model. Master, Lord, Savior, God, etc - but never role model.

We are like Him, and do the things He did, simply and only because His Spirit is in us leading us.

We must consider Him the Savior first and foremost or nothinging else we consider Him to be makes a difference. There are many different religions that believe He was a good man and even a prophet.

Do you trust in Him alone as your Savior dan?

Yes he is my only saviour, but what do you mean others believe he was a Prophet. Jesus was a Prophet, he was many things. Son of Man, Son of God, Teacher, Prophet, Role Model.