I quit church

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hey CE

I'll say this for the RCC: They do not ask for money. Not in any of the ones I've been two and I'm talking about NY and here.
No mention at all unless they need money for a project that is serious and extra funds are necessary. I know that priests (I'm talking about here) are paid from Rome. A pretty good amount too if you consider that they have no family to support.

Our pastors, OTOH, MUST ask for money because everything depends on what THEY could bring in. I remember my Nazarene pastor used to take 10% of all the monies. He supported a family and this was his only job so he could dedicate himself to the church.

Maybe I should become a catholic.
I use to be one.
I have an up to date Catechism.
I'm half way there.
Where's the confessional?

 

[Free]

OK... I read it Free. I understand your point.

I never thought of it this way. I will say that I did join the Nazarene church. It made no difference to me. I did the same things before as I did after. Allen Wynne also stated that he belonged to a church 11 years and that he's been going to church for over 30 years. Maybe one doesn't join because they know they don't like the church? That would be my reason. It's not easy to find a church someone really feels comfortable in.

In the RCC this is not as important. You could go to any one and the service will be the same. In Protestantism it is important to like your church because there are so many variables.


So, as I see it, your analogy would be correct IF I found a good church and refused to join.

I don't see why it would take 11 years or more to figure out if one was attending a good church. It should take no more than a couple of months.

Oh. BTW, I also wouldn't join if they had some silly rules. Jesus didn't have any rules --- He only said to believe and follow Him.

Jesus most certainly had rules, as did the Apostles (all ESV):

Matt. 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Matt. 18:1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them
3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me,
6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
...
8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.
9 And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
...
15 "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
...
21 Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?"
22 Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

Matt. 19:13 Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people,
14 but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."

Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."

 

[Wrg1405]

How about Wrg1405 for pastor.
He's a big time Calvinist like us.

What's the package and do I have to work on Sundays?

 

[Wrg1405]

I'm concerned about him having to fly across the Pond twice a week to attend meetings.

Wouldn't have to in this day and age.
FaceTime, online broadcast and so on

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

What's the package and do I have to work on Sundays?

Ask Jethro Bodine
He has 6 tomes full of rules

 

[Free]

Okay, I hear you.
You can't find any Scripture.
We can drop it now.

Drop what, the topic?

First, we know that the NT Church kept lists: 1 Tim. 5:9-11. Second, membership helps to know who is in and who is out of the church: 1 Cor. 5:1-2,13. Third, we are to submit to our church leaders as they are accountable for those under their care:

Heb. 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you (ESV).

How can church leaders be held accountable for those who don't fully commit? And conversely, how can one who will not commit reasonably expect anything from the church they attend?

There are solid reasons for becoming a member, biblical and non-biblical, especially if one wants to become involved in the life of the church.

 

[Wrg1405]

Ask Jethro Bodine
He has 6 tomes full of rules

Are they easy to keep

 

[vsiv3347]

There are a ton of rules. So many. Not the least of which is "submit to one another" which is one that means more rules can be made at any given time. The thing that is different is we don't try to obtain status with God by following rules, and we know that we will not always follow the rules because God's lifestyle for us is too challenging. Instead of discarding the rules or seeing them as unimportant, we should see this as where we should grow. The ways to be more like God.

I will add a list below which should convince anyone that no new rules are needed.

However, submit to one another is there for a reason. It's also a very hard rule for Americans. We are really only hearing one side of the story here, and this is one of them where stories can be very distorted. This may actually be an exclusion based on proper church discipline according the scripture and not understood as such.

On the other hand to add a thing that makes a person "not a member" and denies praying with the church is questionable. It is certainly against God if that is the "official" prayer time and even more so if those who are "members" are discouraged from praying with those who are not in general. In this case, this is against God and this church should not be submitted to or interacted with at all.

Some thing where a someone is partially engaged and partially not and just stays that way...that is a bad and broken situation. It is outside of the will of God. Maybe it needs reconciliation, maybe it needs moving on, maybe it needs communication and forgiveness. Can't ever tell that much from one side of the story.

THE LIST- and it's not even complete!!

1. “…Be at peace with each other.” (Mark 9:50)
2. “…Wash one another’s feet.” (John 13:14)
3. “…Love one another…” (John 13:34)
4. “…Love one another…” (John 13:34)
5. “…Love one another…” (John 13:35)
6. “…Love one another…” (John 15:12)
7. “…Love one another” (John 15:17)
8. “Be devoted to one another in brotherly love…” (Romans 12:10)
9. “…Honor one another above yourselves. (Romans 12:10)
10. “Live in harmony with one another…” (Romans 12:16)
11. “…Love one another…” (Romans 13:8)
12. “…Stop passing judgment on one another.” (Romans 14:13)
13. “Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you…” (Romans 15:7)
14. “…Instruct one another.” (Romans 15:14)
15. “Greet one another with a holy kiss…” (Romans 16:16)
16. “…When you come together to eat, wait for each other.” (I Cor. 11:33)
17. “…Have equal concern for each other.” (I Corinthians 12:25)
18. “…Greet one another with a holy kiss.” (I Corinthians 16:20)
19. “Greet one another with a holy kiss.” (II Corinthians 13:12)
20. “…Serve one another in love.” (Galatians 5:13)
21. “If you keep on biting and devouring each other…you will be destroyed by each other.”
(Galatians 5:15)
22. “Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.” (Galatians 5:26)
23. “Carry each other’s burdens…” (Galatians 6:2)
24. “…Be patient, bearing with one another in love.” (Ephesians 4:2)
25. “Be kind and compassionate to one another…” (Ephesians 4:32)
26. “…Forgiving each other…” (Ephesians 4:32)
27. “Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.” (Ephesians 5:19)
28. “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” (Ephesians 5:21)
29. “…In humility consider others better than yourselves.” (Philippians 2:3)
30. “Do not lie to each other…” (Colossians 3:9)
31. “Bear with each other…” (Colossians 3:13)
32. “…Forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another.” (Colossians 3:13)
33. “Teach…[one another]” (Colossians 3:16)
34. “…Admonish one another (Colossians 3:16)
35. “…Make your love increase and overflow for each other.” (I Thessalonians 3:12)
36. “…Love each other.” (I Thessalonians 4:9)
37. “…Encourage each other…”(I Thessalonians 4:18)
38. “…Encourage each other…” I Thessalonians 5:11)
39. “…Build each other up…” (I Thessalonians 5:11)
40. “Encourage one another daily…” Hebrews 3:13)
41. “…Spur one another on toward love and good deeds.” (Hebrews 10:24)
42. “…Encourage one another.” (Hebrews 10:25)
43. “…Do not slander one another.” (James 4:11)
44. “Don’t grumble against each other…” (James 5:9)
45. “Confess your sins to each other…” (James 5:16)
46. “…Pray for each other.” (James 5:16)
47. “…Love one another deeply, from the heart.” (I Peter 3:8)
48. “…Live in harmony with one another…” (I Peter 3:8)
49. “…Love each other deeply…” (I Peter 4:8)
50. “Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.” (I Peter 4:9)
51. “Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others…” (I Peter 4:10)
52. “…Clothe yourselves with humility toward one another…”(I Peter 5:5)
53. “Greet one another with a kiss of love.” (I Peter 5:14)
54. “…Love one another.” (I John 3:11)
55. “…Love one another.” (I John 3:23)
56. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:7)
57. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:11)
58. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:12)
59. “…Love one another.” (II John 5)

 

[GodsGrace]

Diet,has nothing to do with that nor well say japan where the 4th amendment isn't a guarentee,or IrelaND where they can jail atheists, or Brittian where your want a nursing home care? Sign over your home.

Isn't it also true in the states that if an elderly person goes to a nursing home and does not have the $$ to pay for it, their home is taken?

 

[GodsGrace]

Do not take this out of context because this applies to iLove also. If you set your alarm clock to get up and go to work, and don't set it to get up and go to church on Sunday, mammon (money) is your master. The spirit of mammon will make a person get up on time, shower and groom, put on nice clothes, and arrive on time. When Sunday morning comes...excuses - excuses - excuses! Jesus says mammon is your master and you don't really trust me. Open your bible and read Luke 16.

I don't agree iLOVE.
Many persons set that alarm clock on Sunday and go to church and then spend the rest of the day not keeping holy the Sabbath (or sunday), to say nothing of the rest of the week.

It's good to go to church, but should that be our Christianity?
The way you explain it, it becomes a "work" or a work of the Law, to clarify.

God does not honor "works" of the Law.
Only works from the heart.

 

[iLOVE]

There are a ton of rules. So many. Not the least of which is "submit to one another" which is one that means more rules can be made at any given time. The thing that is different is we don't try to obtain status with God by following rules, and we know that we will not always follow the rules because God's lifestyle for us is too challenging. Instead of discarding the rules or seeing them as unimportant, we should see this as where we should grow. The ways to be more like God.

I will add a list below which should convince anyone that no new rules are needed.

However, submit to one another is there for a reason. It's also a very hard rule for Americans. We are really only hearing one side of the story here, and this is one of them where stories can be very distorted. This may actually be an exclusion based on proper church discipline according the scripture and not understood as such.

On the other hand to add a thing that makes a person "not a member" and denies praying with the church is questionable. It is certainly against God if that is the "official" prayer time and even more so if those who are "members" are discouraged from praying with those who are not in general. In this case, this is against God and this church should not be submitted to or interacted with at all.

Some thing where a someone is partially engaged and partially not and just stays that way...that is a bad and broken situation. It is outside of the will of God. Maybe it needs reconciliation, maybe it needs moving on, maybe it needs communication and forgiveness. Can't ever tell that much from one side of the story.

THE LIST- and it's not even complete!!

1. “…Be at peace with each other.” (Mark 9:50)
2. “…Wash one another’s feet.” (John 13:14)
3. “…Love one another…” (John 13:34)
4. “…Love one another…” (John 13:34)
5. “…Love one another…” (John 13:35)
6. “…Love one another…” (John 15:12)
7. “…Love one another” (John 15:17)
8. “Be devoted to one another in brotherly love…” (Romans 12:10)
9. “…Honor one another above yourselves. (Romans 12:10)
10. “Live in harmony with one another…” (Romans 12:16)
11. “…Love one another…” (Romans 13:8)
12. “…Stop passing judgment on one another.” (Romans 14:13)
13. “Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you…” (Romans 15:7)
14. “…Instruct one another.” (Romans 15:14)
15. “Greet one another with a holy kiss…” (Romans 16:16)
16. “…When you come together to eat, wait for each other.” (I Cor. 11:33)
17. “…Have equal concern for each other.” (I Corinthians 12:25)
18. “…Greet one another with a holy kiss.” (I Corinthians 16:20)
19. “Greet one another with a holy kiss.” (II Corinthians 13:12)
20. “…Serve one another in love.” (Galatians 5:13)
21. “If you keep on biting and devouring each other…you will be destroyed by each other.”
(Galatians 5:15)
22. “Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.” (Galatians 5:26)
23. “Carry each other’s burdens…” (Galatians 6:2)
24. “…Be patient, bearing with one another in love.” (Ephesians 4:2)
25. “Be kind and compassionate to one another…” (Ephesians 4:32)
26. “…Forgiving each other…” (Ephesians 4:32)
27. “Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.” (Ephesians 5:19)
28. “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” (Ephesians 5:21)
29. “…In humility consider others better than yourselves.” (Philippians 2:3)
30. “Do not lie to each other…” (Colossians 3:9)
31. “Bear with each other…” (Colossians 3:13)
32. “…Forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another.” (Colossians 3:13)
33. “Teach…[one another]” (Colossians 3:16)
34. “…Admonish one another (Colossians 3:16)
35. “…Make your love increase and overflow for each other.” (I Thessalonians 3:12)
36. “…Love each other.” (I Thessalonians 4:9)
37. “…Encourage each other…”(I Thessalonians 4:18)
38. “…Encourage each other…” I Thessalonians 5:11)
39. “…Build each other up…” (I Thessalonians 5:11)
40. “Encourage one another daily…” Hebrews 3:13)
41. “…Spur one another on toward love and good deeds.” (Hebrews 10:24)
42. “…Encourage one another.” (Hebrews 10:25)
43. “…Do not slander one another.” (James 4:11)
44. “Don’t grumble against each other…” (James 5:9)
45. “Confess your sins to each other…” (James 5:16)
46. “…Pray for each other.” (James 5:16)
47. “…Love one another deeply, from the heart.” (I Peter 3:8)
48. “…Live in harmony with one another…” (I Peter 3:8)
49. “…Love each other deeply…” (I Peter 4:8)
50. “Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.” (I Peter 4:9)
51. “Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others…” (I Peter 4:10)
52. “…Clothe yourselves with humility toward one another…”(I Peter 5:5)
53. “Greet one another with a kiss of love.” (I Peter 5:14)
54. “…Love one another.” (I John 3:11)
55. “…Love one another.” (I John 3:23)
56. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:7)
57. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:11)
58. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:12)
59. “…Love one another.” (II John 5)

Don't confuse what love is. Jesus is, and was, and always will be the ultimate example of love. God is love. And yet that didn't stop the Lord from calling the Sadducees and the Pharisees what they were. He called them snakes, vipers, and two fold child of the Devil in the book of Matthew.

 

[Free]

On the other hand to add a thing that makes a person "not a member" and denies praying with the church is questionable. It is certainly against God if that is the "official" prayer time and even more so if those who are "members" are discouraged from praying with those who are not in general. In this case, this is against God and this church should not be submitted to or interacted with at all.

In thinking about it some more, it may not actually be that questionable. Where is the line drawn as to who can and who cannot participate in community prayer time? Certainly it is not wise to just allow anyone to participate.

 

[GodsGrace]

If a church is a place and time and not a community, which is true most places, and you continue to "go"... then traditionalism is your master

 

[jasonc]

Isn't it also true in the states that if an elderly person goes to a nursing home and does not have the $$ to pay for it, their home is taken?

In the u.s. but it's by consent not by force of the government

 

[GodsGrace]

From the website AllAboutGod.net

Judging Others – You Lose
By judging others in an unbiblical and hypocritical way, we pay an enormous price. In every case, our choice to criticize another person causes severe damage in our lives. Ridiculing others exposes us to the righteous judgment of God, and we bring more suffering on ourselves by our complaints against one another than we are aware of (James 5:9). Judging people and accusing them is what Satan does (Revelation 12:10).1 In addition to ruining other people’s lives, judging others in an unbiblical way:

• Robs us of hope – Our critical spirit steals our joy and peace, making it impossible to trust in God’s power (Romans 15:13).
• Attempts to question God’s authority – When we judge another, our sins become magnified in God’s eyes (John 8:3-7).
• Pollutes our heart – When we judge, we often intend malice, while slandering another person (Mark 7:20-23).
• Makes us vulnerable to hatred – We plant seeds of unforgiveness and condemnation that take root in our hearts and minds (Proverbs 6:16-19).
• Places us in opposition to God – Our refusal to humble ourselves cultivates pride (1 Peter 5:5-6

Great post.

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe I should become a catholic.
I use to be one.
I have an up to date Catechism.
I'm half way there.
Where's the confessional?

Not too many Catholics go to confession anymore.

 

[iLOVE]

I don't agree iLOVE.
Many persons set that alarm clock on Sunday and go to church and then spend the rest of the day not keeping holy the Sabbath (or sunday), to say nothing of the rest of the week.

It's good to go to church, but should that be our Christianity?
The way you explain it, it becomes a "work" or a work of the Law, to clarify.

God does not honor "works" of the Law.
Only works from the heart.

As I stated before, many Christians love Jesus, but they don't love Him First. Rev. 2:4-5

 

[GodsGrace]

There are a ton of rules. So many. Not the least of which is "submit to one another" which is one that means more rules can be made at any given time. The thing that is different is we don't try to obtain status with God by following rules, and we know that we will not always follow the rules because God's lifestyle for us is too challenging. Instead of discarding the rules or seeing them as unimportant, we should see this as where we should grow. The ways to be more like God.

I will add a list below which should convince anyone that no new rules are needed.

However, submit to one another is there for a reason. It's also a very hard rule for Americans. We are really only hearing one side of the story here, and this is one of them where stories can be very distorted. This may actually be an exclusion based on proper church discipline according the scripture and not understood as such.

On the other hand to add a thing that makes a person "not a member" and denies praying with the church is questionable. It is certainly against God if that is the "official" prayer time and even more so if those who are "members" are discouraged from praying with those who are not in general. In this case, this is against God and this church should not be submitted to or interacted with at all.

Some thing where a someone is partially engaged and partially not and just stays that way...that is a bad and broken situation. It is outside of the will of God. Maybe it needs reconciliation, maybe it needs moving on, maybe it needs communication and forgiveness. Can't ever tell that much from one side of the story.

THE LIST- and it's not even complete!!

1. “…Be at peace with each other.” (Mark 9:50)
2. “…Wash one another’s feet.” (John 13:14)
3. “…Love one another…” (John 13:34)
4. “…Love one another…” (John 13:34)
5. “…Love one another…” (John 13:35)
6. “…Love one another…” (John 15:12)
7. “…Love one another” (John 15:17)
8. “Be devoted to one another in brotherly love…” (Romans 12:10)
9. “…Honor one another above yourselves. (Romans 12:10)
10. “Live in harmony with one another…” (Romans 12:16)
11. “…Love one another…” (Romans 13:8)
12. “…Stop passing judgment on one another.” (Romans 14:13)
13. “Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you…” (Romans 15:7)
14. “…Instruct one another.” (Romans 15:14)
15. “Greet one another with a holy kiss…” (Romans 16:16)
16. “…When you come together to eat, wait for each other.” (I Cor. 11:33)
17. “…Have equal concern for each other.” (I Corinthians 12:25)
18. “…Greet one another with a holy kiss.” (I Corinthians 16:20)
19. “Greet one another with a holy kiss.” (II Corinthians 13:12)
20. “…Serve one another in love.” (Galatians 5:13)
21. “If you keep on biting and devouring each other…you will be destroyed by each other.”
(Galatians 5:15)
22. “Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.” (Galatians 5:26)
23. “Carry each other’s burdens…” (Galatians 6:2)
24. “…Be patient, bearing with one another in love.” (Ephesians 4:2)
25. “Be kind and compassionate to one another…” (Ephesians 4:32)
26. “…Forgiving each other…” (Ephesians 4:32)
27. “Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.” (Ephesians 5:19)
28. “Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.” (Ephesians 5:21)
29. “…In humility consider others better than yourselves.” (Philippians 2:3)
30. “Do not lie to each other…” (Colossians 3:9)
31. “Bear with each other…” (Colossians 3:13)
32. “…Forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another.” (Colossians 3:13)
33. “Teach…[one another]” (Colossians 3:16)
34. “…Admonish one another (Colossians 3:16)
35. “…Make your love increase and overflow for each other.” (I Thessalonians 3:12)
36. “…Love each other.” (I Thessalonians 4:9)
37. “…Encourage each other…”(I Thessalonians 4:18)
38. “…Encourage each other…” I Thessalonians 5:11)
39. “…Build each other up…” (I Thessalonians 5:11)
40. “Encourage one another daily…” Hebrews 3:13)
41. “…Spur one another on toward love and good deeds.” (Hebrews 10:24)
42. “…Encourage one another.” (Hebrews 10:25)
43. “…Do not slander one another.” (James 4:11)
44. “Don’t grumble against each other…” (James 5:9)
45. “Confess your sins to each other…” (James 5:16)
46. “…Pray for each other.” (James 5:16)
47. “…Love one another deeply, from the heart.” (I Peter 3:8)
48. “…Live in harmony with one another…” (I Peter 3:8)
49. “…Love each other deeply…” (I Peter 4:8)
50. “Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.” (I Peter 4:9)
51. “Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others…” (I Peter 4:10)
52. “…Clothe yourselves with humility toward one another…”(I Peter 5:5)
53. “Greet one another with a kiss of love.” (I Peter 5:14)
54. “…Love one another.” (I John 3:11)
55. “…Love one another.” (I John 3:23)
56. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:7)
57. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:11)
58. “…Love one another.” (I John 4:12)
59. “…Love one another.” (II John 5)

I'd say that the above is exactly the reason why Jesus left us with only two commandments:
Love God
Love Yourself as you love your Neighbor.

That covers everything in your list and/or any other list.
I agree that the church spoken of in the O.P. is NOT following Jesus' commandments since they do NOT love their neighbor.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Are they easy to keep

Ask Ralph.
He's up on all this stuff.

 

[GodsGrace]

As I stated before, many Christians love Jesus, but they don't love Him First. Rev. 2:4-5

Yeah, but what does loving Him first mean then??
That I follow all the rules?

I'm to follow the commandments.
So then the Catholics are right, if I miss Mass, I've commited a mortal sin and am going to hell if I die before i could confess it.
You see...it could get silly.