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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Justification by Faith
- Thread starter iLOVE
- Start date
Jim Parker
Member
That's true! And people will get themselves in a proper tizzy over what they think the other one means by some word or another!
"Strain a gnat and swallow a camel."
iakov the fool
Nathan
Member
What that article says is impossible. God could not have made Judas betray Jesus. God does not make people sin.
What we do know is the prophecy about Judas.
Psalm 41
Even my close friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me.
Think about it for a second. Does Jesus call anyone friend who is not His friend? Does Jesus trust someone who is not His own?
Those words are not ever said of people who have not been chosen by God - as we know for a fact Judas was.
Acts 1
15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,
16 "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.
17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry."
Judas was one of the twelve.
Jim Parker
Member
I too am totally underwhelmed at yet another opportunity to watch the ongoing saga of everyone ignoring anything the other person has to say.
Jim Parker
Member
Luk 6:12-16 Now it came to pass in those days that He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles: Simon, whom He also named Peter,....... Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor.
Notice Luke says that Judas "became" a traitor. That means that he was not a traitor at the time when he was made an apostle.
iakov the fool
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Cygnus
Member
Post away...you're not impressing me. Judas was never saved.
You're mixing feel good theology with the Bible....acting as if your result is the only possible answer to your statements...which is pretty far from the truth.
Nathan
Member
You can accuse me all you want. How is this feel good theology? That accusation seems like a far stretch. You are trying to discredit me, yet you post no thought provoking reply as to why Judas could not have been saved.
I've posted proof showing he was because of all the passages speaking of him. Where is your evidence that Judas did not have faith?
John 17
6 I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.
7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you.
8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.
9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
Nathan
Member
Judas betrayed Christ because Judas wanted to. Do you believe God made Judas betray Christ?
Judas was indeed lost, lost from the ones who were Gods and given to Christ. Is a person ever considered Gods but not given faith?
How do you reconcile psalm 41? Was Judas a friend of Christ, one Christ trusted? Do you believe Jesus was speaking truthfully that the passage He quoted was fulfilled by Judas?
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Judas never called Jesus Lord. Only Rabbi. Judas was a follower, but never a true believer. John 6:64-65, "But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
Judas was more interested in money than ministry. After all, he betrayed "an innocent man" for 30 pieces. Judas was the "Son of Perdition" John 17:12 from the beginning. He had every opportunity to become a true believer in Jesus as Lord but he never made that step. In the end, Jesus was a disappointment to Judas and he willingly betrayed Jesus to be killed.
Many people followed Jesus but that isn't what saves. True followers are changed. Judas never changed.
Judas was more interested in money than ministry. After all, he betrayed "an innocent man" for 30 pieces. Judas was the "Son of Perdition" John 17:12 from the beginning. He had every opportunity to become a true believer in Jesus as Lord but he never made that step. In the end, Jesus was a disappointment to Judas and he willingly betrayed Jesus to be killed.
Many people followed Jesus but that isn't what saves. True followers are changed. Judas never changed.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
that doesn't speak to his salvation
Luk 6:12-16 Now it came to pass in those days that He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. And when it was day, He called His disciples to Himself; and from them He chose twelve whom He also named apostles: Simon, whom He also named Peter,....... Judas the son of James, and Judas Iscariot who also became a traitor.
Notice Luke says that Judas "became" a traitor. That means that he was not a traitor at the time when he was made and apostle.
iakov the fool
Cygnus
Member
The theology being presented is typical feel good..let me help you save me Jesus... theology
How is it feel good theology? They need Judas to have always been saved. That feels good, right? Now they can strip him of his salvation...and they feel even better.
Edited to make it less personal
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Cygnus
Member
It was part of the plan from the beginning of creation.
Wether Judas was a friend or not....doesn't determine whether Judas was saved or not.
John 6:64-65, "But there are some of you who do not believe.”(JUDAS) For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, (JUDAS) and who it was that would betray Him.(JUDAS) 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.” Red emphasis mine.
Judas was never saved. the Bible really can't get any clearer.
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Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
This is unfair and I think (I will check) it violates the TOS. You're addressing the person and you should only address the issue. I'm posting this as a reminder to all of us. Don't tell other people what they believe or think.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
Yeah, here it is. It's probably the single most violated rule.
2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
It is a violation to misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not flood a forum or thread with similar posts, or many posts in succession. Allow others a chance to speak and be heard. If you are responding to multiple posts in the same thread, please consider using the multi-quote feature. Please refrain from taking a thread too far off topic.
ezra
Member
why would any one ask if one could lose their faith that i gnat straining at its best
Cygnus
Member
To be honest...I think it would be pretty easy to lose your faith....depending upon what crisis your facing.
ezra
Member
LOSE IT when God has given us a measure of the faith ? we make have little faith but lose it ? we all put our hope in God fixing what ever it is.
Cygnus
Member
No one said once you lose faith you can't regain it.
Nathan
Member
I'm not sure who you have been talking to, but there is nothing to feel good about the entire events.
It's not a matter of needing Judas to be saved, it's a matter of needing the truth to be presented. It's quite sad when someone turns away from Christ, and the lesson we learn from Judas is one that can be learned from.