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Hell, what is it?

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Folks, this forum requires that counter arguments include the supportive Scripture to show why we believe what we believe. Let's keep this in mind. Furthermore, the ToS includes the following so let's keep this a friendly discussion and drop all the accusations and personal remarks about others and others' discussion styles.

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Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God
By Johnathan Edwards
(just the good parts for a quick reference)

Their foot shall slide in due time.—Deut. 32:35
3. Another thing implied is, that they are liable to fall of themselves, without being thrown down by the hand of another; as he that stands or walks on slippery ground needs nothing but his own weight to throw him down.
The observation from the words that I would now insist upon is this.—“There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God.”

1. There is no want of power in God to cast wicked men into hell at any moment.

2. They deserve to be cast into hell; so that divine justice never stands in the way, it makes no objection against God’s using his power at any moment to destroy them. Yea, on the contrary, justice calls aloud for an infinite punishment of their sins. Divine justice says of the tree that brings forth such grapes of Sodom, “Cut it down, why cumbereth it the ground?” Luke 13:7. The sword of divine justice is every moment brandished over their heads, and it is nothing but the hand of arbitrary mercy, and God’s mere will, that holds it back.

3. They are already under a sentence of condemnation to hell. They do not only justly deserve to be cast down thither, but the sentence of the law of God, that eternal and immutable rule of righteousness that God has fixed between him and mankind, is gone out against them, and stands against them; so that they are bound over already to hell. “He that believeth not is condemned already. ”(John 3:18)

6. There are in the souls of wicked men those hellish principles reigning, that would presently kindle and flame out into hell-fire, if it were not for God’s restraints. There is laid in the very nature of carnal men, a foundation for the torments of hell. There are those corrupt principles, in reigning power in them, and in full possession of them, that are seeds of hell-fire. These principles are active and powerful, exceeding violent in their nature, and if it were not for the restraining hand of God upon them, they would soon break out, they would flame out after the same manner as the same corruptions, the same enmity does in the hearts of damned souls, and would beget the same torments as they do in them. The souls of the wicked are in Scripture compared to the troubled sea, Isaiah 57:20. For the present, God restrains their wickedness by his mighty power, as he does the raging waves of the troubled sea, saying, “Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further,” but if God should withdraw that restraining power, it would soon carry all before it. Sin is the ruin and misery of the soul; it is destructive in its nature; and if God should leave it without restraint, there would need nothing else to make the soul perfectly miserable. The corruption of the heart of man is immoderate and boundless in its fury; and while wicked men live here, it is like fire pent up by God’s restraints, whereas if it were let loose, it would set on fire the course of nature; and as the heart is now a sink of sin, so, if sin was not restrained, it would immediately turn the soul into fiery oven, or a furnace of fire and brimstone.

7. It is no security to wicked men for one moment, that there are no visible means of death at hand. ... The unseen, unthought of ways and means of persons going suddenly out of the world are innumerable and inconceivable. Unconverted men walk over the pit of hell on a rotten covering, and there are innumerable places in this covering so weak that they will not bear their weight, and these places are not seen.

9. All wicked men’s pains and contrivance which they use to escape hell, while they continue to reject Christ, and so remain wicked men, do not secure them from hell one moment. Almost every natural man that hears of hell, flatters himself that he shall escape it; he depends upon himself for his own security; he flatters himself in what he has done, in what he is now doing, or what he intends to do.

10. God has laid himself under no obligation, by any promise to keep any natural man out of hell one moment. God certainly has made no promises either of eternal life, or of any deliverance or preservation from eternal death, but what are contained in the covenant of grace, the promises that are given in Christ, in whom all the promises are yea and amen. But surely they have no interest in the promises of the covenant of grace who are not the children of the covenant, who do not believe in any of the promises, and have no interest in the Mediator of the covenant.

So that, thus it is that natural men are held in the hand of God, over the pit of hell; they have deserved the fiery pit, and are already sentenced to it; and God is dreadfully provoked, his anger is as great towards them as to those that are actually suffering the executions of the fierceness of his wrath in hell, and they have done nothing in the least to appease or abate that anger, neither is God in the least bound by any promise to hold them up one moment; the devil is waiting for them, hell is gaping for them, the flames gather and flash about them, and would fain lay hold on them, and swallow them up; the fire pent up in their own hearts is struggling to break out: and they have no interest in any Mediator, there are no means within reach that can be any security to them. In short, they have no refuge, nothing to take hold of; all that preserves them every moment is the mere arbitrary will, and uncovenanted, unobliged forbearance of an incensed God.

Consider this, you that are here present, that yet remain in an unregenerate state. That God will execute the fierceness of his anger, implies, that he will inflict wrath without any pity. When God beholds the ineffable extremity of your case, and sees your torment to be so vastly disproportioned to your strength, and sees how your poor soul is crushed, and sinks down, as it were, into an infinite gloom; he will have no compassion upon you, he will not forbear the executions of his wrath, or in the least lighten his hand; there shall be no moderation or mercy, nor will God then at all stay his rough wind; he will have no regard to your welfare, nor be at all careful lest you should suffer too much in any other sense, than only that you shall not suffer beyond what strict justice requires. Nothing shall be withheld, because it is so hard for you to bear. “Therefore will I also deal in fury; mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity; and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet I will not hear them. (Ezekiel 8:18)” Now God stands ready to pity you; this is a day of mercy; you may cry now with some encouragement of obtaining mercy. But when once the day of mercy is past, your most lamentable and dolorous cries and shrieks will be in vain; you will be wholly lost and thrown away of God, as to any regard to your welfare. God will have no other use to put you to, but to suffer misery; you shall be continued in being to no other end; for you will be a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction; and there will be no other use of this vessel, but to be filled full of wrath. God will be so far from pitying you when you cry to him, that it is said he will only “laugh and mock, (Proverbs 1:25-26), etc."

3. The misery you are exposed to is that which God will inflict to that end, that he might show what that wrath of Jehovah is. God hath had it on his heart to show to angels and men, both how excellent his love is, and also how terrible his wrath is.

4. It is everlasting wrath. It would be dreadful to suffer this fierceness and wrath of Almighty God one moment; but you must suffer it to all eternity. There will be no end to this exquisite horrible misery. When you look forward, you shall see a long forever, a boundless duration before you, which will swallow up your thoughts, and amaze your soul; and you will absolutely despair of ever having any deliverance, any end, any mitigation, any rest at all.

And now you have an extraordinary opportunity, a day wherein Christ has thrown the door of mercy wide open, and stands in calling and crying with a loud voice to poor sinners; a day wherein many are flocking to him, and pressing into the kingdom of God. Many are daily coming from the east, west, north and south; many that were very lately in the same miserable condition that you are in, are now in a happy state, with their hearts filled with love to him who has loved them, and washed them from their sins in his own blood, and rejoicing in hope of the glory of God. How awful is it to be left behind at such a day! To see so many others feasting, while you are pining and perishing! To see so many rejoicing and singing for joy of heart, while you have cause to mourn for sorrow of heart, and howl for vexation of spirit! How can you rest one moment in such a condition?

Therefore, let every one that is out of Christ, now awake and fly from the wrath to come. The wrath of Almighty God is now undoubtedly hanging over a great part of this congregation. Let every one fly out of Sodom: “Haste and escape for your lives, look not behind you, escape to the mountain, lest you be consumed.” [end]

The whole sermon:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/edwards_jonathan/Sermons/Sinners.cfm
 
Another thread prompted this discussion. So I figured we could begin by knowing what exactly hell is.

What is it?

Was it created, or did it always exist?

Who goes there?

Why do they go there?

I think we often don't like to talk about it for some reason, but sometimes it's nessesary to understand things.
After reading most of this thread, I find your understanding of Hell lacking.
As a result, I think your opinions are deeply flawed.
What is It?
First, you have to know what it is.
The Jewish idea came from what is commonly known as Gehenna.... which has it's roots in the reign of Solomon.
It is a physical place where Solomon offered his own children to foreign gods, and then he would offer sacrifices to God in the temple. It's an idea which encompasses systemic sin from the top down. It's not only personal, but cultural. We call it anti kingdom.
1 Kings 7-9 has much to say about this. Contrast it with Deut 18 I believe (When you appoint a king....)
This should be your entry point into your study of he'll.

As for your reference to it being created for the devil, that hell comes from Greek mythology and resides in the deepest part of Hades. You do know Hades is the brother of Zeus and His abode is named Hades.
 
After reading most of this thread, I find your understanding of Hell lacking.
As a result, I think your opinions are deeply flawed.
What is It?
First, you have to know what it is.
The Jewish idea came from what is commonly known as Gehenna.... which has it's roots in the reign of Solomon.
It is a physical place where Solomon offered his own children to foreign gods, and then he would offer sacrifices to God in the temple. It's an idea which encompasses systemic sin from the top down. It's not only personal, but cultural. We call it anti kingdom.
1 Kings 7-9 has much to say about this. Contrast it with Deut 18 I believe (When you appoint a king....)
This should be your entry point into your study of he'll.

As for your reference to it being created for the devil, that hell comes from Greek mythology and resides in the deepest part of Hades. You do know Hades is the brother of Zeus and His abode is named Hades.
Oh come on, tell me how you really feel. :)

Matthew 25:41 (ESV)
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Is Jesus quoting from Greek mythology here?
 
Oh come on, tell me how you really feel. :)

Matthew 25:41 (ESV)
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Is Jesus quoting from Greek mythology here?

Nathan good answer.
 
Oh come on, tell me how you really feel. :)

Matthew 25:41 (ESV)
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Is Jesus quoting from Greek mythology here?
Jesus was a Jew living under Roman occupancy.... He understood Jewish and Greek thought and used both depending on his audience to convey the meaning he intended.
In the above case, it's pretty safe to say that those who do the will of God are on His right.

So, the question is, which hell?
Considering Peter says Tartous (sp) was prepared for the devil, I think it's pretty safe to say Jesus is leveraging the truths held in Greek mythology.

If we look at the intent of Jesus, I believe he is saying that those on the left, within context, are viewed the same as the worst of the worst....

What do you know about Hades and His abode?
 
Jesus was a Jew living under Roman occupancy.... He understood Jewish and Greek thought and used both depending on his audience to convey the meaning he intended.
In the above case, it's pretty safe to say that those who do the will of God are on His right.

So, the question is, which hell?
Considering Peter says Tartous (sp) was prepared for the devil, I think it's pretty safe to say Jesus is leveraging the truths held in Greek mythology.

If we look at the intent of Jesus, I believe he is saying that those on the left, within context, are viewed the same as the worst of the worst....

What do you know about Hades and His abode?

Well, I have no clue about Greek Mythology. I just know that hell is a bad place, it was not created for mankind - but those who are not on His right will be cast into the eternal fire.

I know that that place, the place that the ones on the left go into, is not the same place that the ones on His right go into. Therefore, I know that they will be eternally separated from God. That, I do say, is what we know for sure about the place of hell.
 
Well, I have no clue about Greek Mythology. I just know that hell is a bad place, it was not created for mankind - but those who are not on His right will be cast into the eternal fire.

I know that that place, the place that the ones on the left go into, is not the same place that the ones on His right go into. Therefore, I know that they will be eternally separated from God. That, I do say, is what we know for sure about the place of hell.
Scripture was written for believers so it makes sense there is not much specific about a place that is not intended for us; as long as we understand it is not a pleasant place......enuff for me......
 
Proverbs 21:19
It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.
Hell hath no fury like a contentious and an angry woman. :rollingpin

:hysterical:hysterical
 
Well, I have no clue about Greek Mythology. I just know that hell is a bad place, it was not created for mankind - but those who are not on His right will be cast into the eternal fire.

I know that that place, the place that the ones on the left go into, is not the same place that the ones on His right go into. Therefore, I know that they will be eternally separated from God. That, I do say, is what we know for sure about the place of hell.
I would encourage you to brush up on your mythology. At least that way you could hear the words of Jesus with the ears of his audience instead of ears of a westerner 2000 years removed.

Within context, those on the left who thought they were "in" , though they cared little about the needs of those around them will be thought of as the vilest of criminals and evil doers.
When then did we hear you say you were thirsty?
You see, Jesus is making a point that the things you do are important.

This theme ties in perfectly with the rich history of Israel and the valley of hinnom... the birth place of bringing hell to earth...

This is why I believe Jesus teaches us to pray, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

When we fail to help those in need, hell is often what remains... because it's easy to look at others as less than human at times. (Thinking of the good samaritin)
 
Well, I have no clue about Greek Mythology. I just know that hell is a bad place, it was not created for mankind - but those who are not on His right will be cast into the eternal fire.

I know that that place, the place that the ones on the left go into, is not the same place that the ones on His right go into. Therefore, I know that they will be eternally separated from God. That, I do say, is what we know for sure about the place of hell.

Personally, I think that all of the Greek Mythology was brought about by Genesis 6.

You see, Jesus is making a point that the things you do are important.

Amen, Brother! I've learned that recently...
 
Well... much. But nothing beats a hood study.
There is much on Hades, and I'd encourage you to read some of it.
Then, do a study on Gehenna. I've given the starting verses.
It helps to know who Molek and Chemosh are. Later, they get blended with Baal.
 
Nathan
Do you know what the abode of Hades and Gehenna have in common?
If it has anything to do with Greek Mythology then no.

Jesus did not teach the truths of His Father using 'gods' of the enemies side.

There is no indication that He would do such a thing. We are to stay away from idols and all they represent. Jesus was not going to use them as lessons for us to learn by.
 
If it has anything to do with Greek Mythology then no.

Jesus did not teach the truths of His Father using 'gods' of the enemies side.

There is no indication that He would do such a thing. We are to stay away from idols and all they represent. Jesus was not going to use them as lessons for us to learn by.
Your words sound strong and authoritative, but it's not an entirely accurate statement within the framework of our conversation.
Jesus used the word Hades many times, as did John. For example, death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire.

If Hades is purely mythology, then death and mythology are thrown into the lake of fire. But wait, Adam and Eve did not die when they ate of the forbidden fruit, so can we now say that mythology and spiritual death are thrown into the lake of fire. And for kicks, the Greek word for lake in that passage really means a small pond.....

This isn't really the direction I want to go, and I'm making a very weak point to simply say that Scripture can be mis interpreted when we don't acknowledge historical facts.

My point is this, Jesus and the apostles used mythological ideas as if they were reality. Instead of denying it because it doesn't jive with a doctrine of hell we just might be better served to hear the words of Jesus as his audience did.
 
Your words sound strong and authoritative, but it's not an entirely accurate statement within the framework of our conversation.
Jesus used the word Hades many times, as did John. For example, death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire.

If Hades is purely mythology, then death and mythology are thrown into the lake of fire. But wait, Adam and Eve did not die when they ate of the forbidden fruit, so can we now say that mythology and spiritual death are thrown into the lake of fire. And for kicks, the Greek word for lake in that passage really means a small pond.....

This isn't really the direction I want to go, and I'm making a very weak point to simply say that Scripture can be mis interpreted when we don't acknowledge historical facts.

My point is this, Jesus and the apostles used mythological ideas as if they were reality. Instead of denying it because it doesn't jive with a doctrine of hell we just might be better served to hear the words of Jesus as his audience did.

Sorry Stove, I just do not buy the idea that Jesus used mythological ideas.

Mythology - a body of myths, as that of a particular people or that relating to a particular person.

Myths - a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

There is no way the Son of God is going to use traditional stories of false gods to convey a truth about the only True God and His plan for mankind. Here is the thing - there is no need for it. He would not need to speak of this mythological place to convey a message to His disciples - who were 100% Jewish. Isaiah 66:24 was well known to them, and so they would have understood this place just fine apart from Greek Mythology.

I assure you, Mythology will be thrown in the lake of fire. :) Or, at least we can say it will not be in the city of God.

Rev 21:27
But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life.


I am not denying the idea of Greek Mythology because it does not jive with my idea of hell. I honestly do not have a real specific idea of hell. I just know what its for, and who will be there. Other than that - I could care less.

What I will absolutely deny, 100%, is that Greek Mythology is truth. Its not. And since its not, I will not study it or consume it in any way. There is a difference between using something someone believes in, that's false, as a stepping stone to show them the truth - its an entirely different thing to use something false to represent a truth. The two cannot be combined.
 
Your words sound strong and authoritative, but it's not an entirely accurate statement within the framework of our conversation.
Jesus used the word Hades many times, as did John. For example, death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire.

If Hades is purely mythology, then death and mythology are thrown into the lake of fire. But wait, Adam and Eve did not die when they ate of the forbidden fruit, so can we now say that mythology and spiritual death are thrown into the lake of fire. And for kicks, the Greek word for lake in that passage really means a small pond.....

This isn't really the direction I want to go, and I'm making a very weak point to simply say that Scripture can be mis interpreted when we don't acknowledge historical facts.

My point is this, Jesus and the apostles used mythological ideas as if they were reality. Instead of denying it because it doesn't jive with a doctrine of hell we just might be better served to hear the words of Jesus as his audience did.

I'm a little confused were you making the account of Adam and Eve into a myth?
 
How would the Bible itself be translated into other languages & cultures without first learning about the local Mythology of the culture involved?

Greek Mythology ??
Hebrew Mythology ??
English Mythology aka like Witch, etc
 
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