"Believe" in the present tense

[Cygnus]

billy posted...Methinks you missed Mark T's point?

Cygnus: I don't know what faith you teach, by my faith, christianity, tells us all of our sins are forgiven..past, present and future.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"But if he EVER believed, he received eternal life at that moment, and according to Jesus, he shall never perish. John 10:28"

Has not, does not, whatever, he is an unbeliever today. He does not believe.

"Whatever" is right. Regardless, if he EVER believed, he was given eternal life by Jesus, and Jesus said he shall never perish in Jn 10:28.

 

[FreeGrace]

FreeGrace do you refuse to acknowledge the rest of scripture if it does not dove-tail with your teaching?

If anything I find in Scripture does not "dove-tail" with my teaching, I WILL abandon my teaching and get in line with Scripture.

Which is apparently unlike some who, when faced with the very clear teaching of Jesus, in John 10:28, refuse to abandon their teaching.

 

[Cygnus]

Methinks you missed Mark T's point?

I said this:
"But if he EVER believed, he received eternal life at that moment, and according to Jesus, he shall never perish. John 10:28"

How true.
The bible says if you're a believer right now....you already have eternal life. Unsnatchable.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said all this:
"I wish you'd not try to speak for those you don't agree with. It's obvious that you're not even aware of our view.

The reason John wrote 1 Jn 1:9 is precisely because we do sin, which negatively effects our fellowship with God. We need to confess our sins in order to be forgiven and purified from all unrighteousness.

I've never met an eternal security believer who didn't rely on regular confession of sins for forgiveness and cleansing.

Your comments are way off the wall.

Pure nonsense."

What fellowship does light have with darkness?

To answer your question, none.

But, you're not even going to address anything in my post? I consider that rude.

But right now we are talking about salvation. If your sins are already forgiven (according to Cygnus), then you don't need to pray.

I don't recall him EVER suggesting that. Could you direct me to the post where he did? I'd like to examine it.

You don't need Jesus to intercede. Which is my point.

Your point is FALSE. Am I clear on that?

 

[Cygnus]

The problem is, the OSNAS...can't even agree with each other.

What I do know is that if you can lose your salvation...you already have.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Everyone who drinks of this water shall thirst again. (John 4:13)

The term drinks is in the present tense. Charles Stanley, whether you like him or not, makes a good point regarding the argument of present tense:

If the present tense always communicates continuous, uninterrupted action, Jesus is saying that those who are continuously drinking from Jacob’s well will thirst again! That doesn't make any sense. First of all, no one who is continually drinking gets thirsty. Second, it would be physically impossible for someone to drink continuously from Jacob’s well—or any well for that matter.

Stanley, Charles. Eternal Security (p. 86). Thomas Nelson. Kindle Edition.

The present tense argument in this issue is seriously flawed. Seems to me many are forcing meaning into the text that just simply isn't there.

 

[Cygnus]

The term drinks is in the present tense. Charles Stanley, whether you like him or not, makes a good point regarding the argument of present tense:

Charles Stanley os a OSAS guy.
I have his book.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Charles Stanley os a OSAS guy.
I have his book.

I like to think of it as OSKBG or OSAK

Once saved, kept by God or Once saved, always kept. We are His sheep. He's the Good Shepherd. When a sheep wanders off, the Good Shepherd goes and retrieves the wandering sheep. Sheep are stupid. They like to go their own ways sometimes and they need rescuing. No shepherd simply waits for the sheep to return on its own.

 

[Cygnus]

I like to think of it as OSKBG or OSAK

Once saved, kept by God or Once saved, always kept. We are His sheep. He's the Good Shepherd. When a sheep wanders off, the Good Shepherd goes and retrieves the wandering sheep. Sheep are stupid. They like to go their own ways sometimes and they need rescuing. No shepherd simply waits for the sheep to return on its own.

Well put.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Well put.

On an Internet search I noticed the other view labeled as OSTL = Once Save Then Lost. The debate is huge everywhere and has been a debate for hundreds of years. We certainly spend a lot of time quibbling over it. When you think of it, it's sad since no one changes their mind over the "discussions" and just think of all the other discussions where unity could actually have a chance to occur. But maybe even that is a pipe dream. Christians love to find areas of disagreement and hash those out to death.

For me, God saves, God keeps. And if one claims to follow after Jesus, then they'd follow and do the things he taught and emphasized. How would a true believer want to do any differently?

Since the Bible says to encourage one another unto good works, that seems to be a better use of our time here on the Christian forums than endlessly arguing over and over the same points. I think I'm alone in this or in the minority anyway.

 

[MarkT]

Haven't yours been forgiven?

Yes. My sins are forgiven everyday because I do what he tells me to do.

billy posted...Methinks you missed Mark T's point?

Cygnus: I don't know what faith you teach, by my faith, christianity, tells us all of our sins are forgiven..past, present and future.

Well then you don't need to pray, do you?

 

[Cygnus]

On an Internet search I noticed the other view labeled as OSTL = Once Save Then Lost. The debate is huge everywhere and has been a debate for hundreds of years. We certainly spend a lot of time quibbling over it. When you think of it, it's sad since no one changes their mind over the "discussions" and just think of all the other discussions where unity could actually have a chance to occur. But maybe even that is a pipe dream. Christians love to find areas of disagreement and hash those out to death.

For me, God saves, God keeps. And if one claims to follow after Jesus, then they'd follow and do the things he taught and emphasized. How would a true believer want to do any differently?

Since the Bible says to encourage one another unto good works, that seems to be a better use of our time here on the Christian forums than endlessly arguing over and over the same points. I think I'm alone in this or in the minority anyway.

True.
When one looks at these forums...and quibbles...one thing it does, or should force you to do is study the Word.

Then again it does give me something to do..and also provides entertainment.

 

[Cygnus]

Yes. My sins are forgiven everyday because I do what he tells me to do.

Then good for you.
My sins were ALL forgiven, past present and future the moment I first believed. All of them were imputed to Christ. Not some of them but all of them.
Even when Christ tells me to do something and I don't...that sin was forgiven at the cross 2,000 years ago.

 

[Papa Zoom]

True.
When one looks at these forums...and quibbles...one thing it does, or should force you to do is study the Word.

Then again it does give me something to do..and also provides entertainment.

True that. It does make me want to dig into God's word deeper and deeper!

 

[Papa Zoom]

Then good for you.
My sins were ALL forgiven, past present and future the moment I first believed. All of them were imputed to Christ. Not some of them but all of them.
Even when Christ tells me to do something and I don't...that sin was forgiven at the cross 2,000 years ago.

That's how I understand it was well.

 

[reba]

wow hyper- grace really
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Why do some glory in their Pharisaical words.. ?

 

[billybalke]

wow hyper- grace really
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Why do some glory in their Pharisaical words.. ?

Thank you Reba

 

[Gregg T]

FreeGrace do you refuse to acknowledge the rest of scripture if it does not dove-tail with your teaching?

For those of us who believe that salvation can not be lost, perhaps where we have been saying 'believe' in that context, we should say 'believe so as to be saved.'

Someone can believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that no one comes to the Father but by Him, but still fall short of trusting Him for personal salvation. I know people in the occult and the highest level of Freemasonry that are convinced that Jesus is the Son of God, and that He was crucified and resurrected; but refuse to repent of their following Satan, refuse to be obedient to God by believing into Jesus Christ, and willfully do everything possible to mock and blaspheme His Name.

The LORD knows the hearts of men, whether they believe superficially and with convenient intent; as opposed to those who know His requirement of righteousness, repentance, obedience, so as to genuinely place their trust in Him by believing into Jesus Christ.

When someone believes into Christ he is saved, permanently and forever, and will never perish, now having a new kind of life that is eternal. Being united with Christ through the indwelling of His Spirit, he is a new creation in Christ (Eph 2:10 b, Col 3:10, Gal 6:15, 2Cor 5:17). This is His work, and His doing; which once began will be completed according to God's intention, as we are His workmanship in this matter (Eph 2:10 a), worked in God (Jn 3:6, 3:21), who is our Founder and Finisher (Heb 12:2), and I also am "being persuaded of this very thing, that the One having begun a good work in you will finish it until the day of Jesus Christ;" (Philippians 1:6).

If someone having eternal life in Christ, belonging to Him, being in Him, could lose or forfeit His salvation, then that would make God not the Finisher, not the One having begun a good work, not the One completing it, a careless Builder, and a promise breaker.

The false doctrine of contingent continual salvation, and / or co-salvation, essentially makes God a liar.

This is the one who is in Christ, he is "one having been saved" (Eph 2:8); because at that time, having then believed into Christ, the individual salvation resulting from that kind of faith is a perpetual never-ending continuous into-the-ages forever eternal salvation. The matter is sealed by the Spirit of the LORD through His indwelling, being also accompanied by a promise of God.

"Not at all will I leave you, not at all will I forsake you, never!" (Heb 13:5) and "The LORD is the one who goes ahead of you; He will be with you. He will not fail you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed." (Deu 31:8).

If anyone here who has been reading these forums, and wondering if you could possibly lose salvation, then you should rest firmly and know that if you belong to Christ - that matter is completed, done, accomplished. It is by His grace and love and blessing that we are saved with such a salvation by our Savior and Shepherd.

 

[Papa Zoom]

wow hyper- grace really
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Why do some glory in their Pharisaical words.. ?

I'm not sure to which post you refer. But as for Romans 6:1 Paul is pointing out the exceeding grace of God that exceeds all sins. Then he makes sure no one getsd the wrong idea. Just because God's grace abounds does that give us license to sin? NO. Or as in the Hispanic Bible "No Way Jose!"

If you're referring to my view, I don't think it qualifies for hyper grace. I've read what some of the hyper grace teachers believe and I don't hold to some of those views.