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Bible Study JESUS OUR EXAMPLE and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

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Joh 15:26,
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Joh 16:13,
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

John 7
16, Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17, If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
I fully agree with all of this you posted. I don't want to go off topic but only will say that many who have competing explanations of biblical teachings uses these same verses to support their competing views. Competing (and often contradictory) views are not from the Spirit. One can be correct or all incorrect.
 
I do observe a day of rest and do encourage others to do the same. Not because I think it's required of me but, because it's both Spiritually healthy and physically (and mentally) necessary. In the OT model, the Sabbath was 6 work days and one day of rest. Additionally, if a person violated the Sabbath, they could be put to death. I wonder if the OP also supports the death penalty for those that don't observe the Sabbath?

Numbers 15:32-36New King James Version (NKJV)
Penalty for Violating the Sabbath 32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.


Answered already with scriptures. Please see the linked posts # 21; 46; 48; . If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures.

Colossians 2:16-17, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”
No one is to judge another by what they do regarding the Sabbath. And for the Christian, our "Lord's Day" is Sunday. Many Christians have no choice to work on Saturdays. Some have to work on Sundays or they couldn't hold a job. But those who practice such should not judge those who don't. (Colossians 2:16)


Answered already with scriptures. Please see the linked posts # 13; along with a more detailed reply linked in the new thread here in a 5/5 Part post starting here. If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures.

Romans 14:5 “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” I think it's pretty clear that we each have the freedom in Christ to decide foGalations 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. If however a Christian believes he/she should practice Sabbath Day keeping, then they should. (Romans 14:5). ourselves. Everyday is a gift from God. Some approach life this way. Each day is a day as unto the Lord.


Answered already with scriptures. Please see the linked posts # 22; 28; If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures.

Also worth considering is (1 Corinthians 8:9) as a reminder not to use one's freedom as a stumbling block for others. Galatians 5:13-15 “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.”


Salvation is from SIN not IN SIN. If you are in your sins you will persish. SIN is the transgression or breaking God's LAW (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7) If anyone KNOWINGLY practices breaking ANY one of God's Commandments they are NOT following him who is calling them and they are still in their SINS. It is our duty of LOVE to GOD and fellow man to teach the Gospel and lead SINNERS to REPENTANCE and to prepare a people to stand in the great day of God where SIN will be destroyed. God is not willing that any should perish. (Please read Ezekiel 3:16-22). LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE and WALK as in His Spirit (Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:20)

In the end, we ought to respect where each other is in regards to this (and others) issue of freedom as we walk with the Lord. We Christians love to find things to argue over though. So I doubt this issue will ever end. As for me and my house,l we will do as we are "fully convinced in [our] own minds." (Romans 14:5) And, my conscience is clear. Peace


For me this has only ever been about sharing the Gospel of God's WORD. Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW it are his people. Many are called but few are chosen because men choose darkness rather then LIGHT because their deeds are evil. Every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. He that does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Only God's Word is true and we should follow him who is calling us...
 
I fully agree with all of this you posted. I don't want to go off topic but only will say that many who have competing explanations of biblical teachings uses these same verses to support their competing views. Competing (and often contradictory) views are not from the Spirit. One can be correct or all incorrect.


What is the test to know if someone is from God or not?

1 John 2
2,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

links to......

1 John 3
3,
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

links to........

Isaiah 8
20,
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

links to who God's people are........

Revelation 12
17,
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

links to.........

Revelation 14
12,
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

links to.........

Revelantion 22
14,
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

and is why Jesus says......

John 14
15,
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

May God bless you my friend as you seek him through His Word.
 
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9) Do not promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity. (ToS 2.2)

Sabbath keeping is not historical Christianity.
Why is this person still allowed to be peddling it?
 
Answered already with scriptures. Please see the linked posts # 21; 46; 48; . If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures.
Answered already with scriptures. Please see the linked posts # 13; along with a more detailed reply linked in the new thread here in a 5/5 Part post starting here. If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures.
Answered already with scriptures. Please see the linked posts # 22; 28; If you disagree please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures.
Salvation is from SIN not IN SIN. If you are in your sins you will persish. SIN is the transgression or breaking God's LAW (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7) If anyone KNOWINGLY practices breaking ANY one of God's Commandments they are NOT following him who is calling them and they are still in their SINS. It is our duty of LOVE to GOD and fellow man to teach the Gospel and lead SINNERS to REPENTANCE and to prepare a people to stand in the great day of God where SIN will be destroyed. God is not willing that any should perish. (Please read Ezekiel 3:16-22). LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW in those who BELIEVE and WALK as in His Spirit (Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:20)


or me this has only ever been about sharing the Gospel of God's WORD. Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW it are his people. Many are called but few are chosen because men choose darkness rather then LIGHT because their deeds are evil. Every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. He that does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Only God's Word is true and we should follow him who is calling us...


and I've already answered in Scripture. Several of them in fact. And I made a sound logical case for my position with Scripture. So you respond, with Scripture and I'll just do the same. And we can play ping pong!
 
The Ten Commandments were written on two tablets of stone by Gods own hand on Mt. Sinai and given to Moses. Seven of them were first spoken to Noah after the flood who would be considered a Gentile,
Before the calling of Abraham, God dealt with all mankind the same. There was not a division of Jew and Gentile till after the calling of Abraham. Noah's ancestry comes from the godly line of Seth. He was not nor could he be considered a gentile. God had already decided at the beginning of creation whom He would call out (the Jew) (Matt. 25:34) and through what ancestry line it would be. (follow Seth Genealogy) (Gen. 5: 3-29). The modern use of gentile is used to denote nations apart from Israel, but in the beginning of it's use it meant "heathen". Gentile is not in original text, and it's usage confuses Scriptural teachings. BTW, In the plan of God, The Church is older than the calling of Israel. The calling out of the Church in it order to Israel (Eph. 1:3-5) as was his sacrifice for it....and all mankind. (1 Pet. 1:19-21)
In our Saviors strength
Douglas Summers


That Unfortunate Word "GENTILE" - Hope of Israel ...
www.hope-of-israel.org/unfortunateword.html
As all Paul’s writings are to Israelites, he uses ethnos to refer to his outcast kinsmen of Israel because that is how they were addressed in the Old Testament Scriptures -- Genesis 19:4-6; Genesis 18:18; Deuteronomy 32:41 (the “with” is not in the Hebrew text); Psalm 22:27, 28; Psalm 57:9; Psalm 67:4; Psalm 81:8; Psalm 108:3; Psalm 117:1; Isaiah 5:26; Isaiah 11:12; Isaiah 34:1; Jeremiah 1:5,10.

 
9) Do not promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity. (ToS 2.2) Sabbath keeping is not historical Christianity.
Why is this person still allowed to be peddling it?

Now Jim, is that really true?

There has already been too many scripture references provided already, let's look at just a few Historical references....

The original churches generally held the Sabbath.
"The ancient
Christians were very careful in the observation of Saturday, or the seventh day...It is plain that all the Oriental churches, and the greatest part of the world, observed the Sabbath as a festival...Athanasius (A.D. 297-373, Bishop of Alexandria) likewise tells us that they held religious assemblies on the Sabbath, not because they were infected with Judaism, but to worship Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath. Epiphanius says the same." (Antiquities of the Christian Church, Vol. II, Bk.xx, Ch.3, Sec 1, 66. 1136,1137)

The forsaking of the Sabbath, and the enforcing of Sunday observance was instigated by a Roman Emperor who was a devoted "Sun-Worshipper".
Here are bits and pieces from a letter he wrote in about A.D. 365 to the "heretics" (non-Catholics / true Christians), -"Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute (Law) that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies....Take the far better course of entering the Catholic church."(Eusebius' -Life of Constantine, Book III) Commentary: Notice that even after more than 300 years Christians were still observing the Sabbath day.

In 781 the famous China Monument was inscribed in marble to tell of the growth of Christianity in China at that time. The inscription of 763 words was unearthed near the city of Changan in 1625 and now stands in the "Forest of Tablets" at Changan. The extract from the tablet states as follows. "On the SEVENTH-DAY we offer sacrifices, (possibly offerings of praise and thanksgiving) after having purified our hearts, and received absolution for our sins. This religion (Christianity), so perfect and so excellent, is difficult to name, but it enlightens darkness by its brilliant precepts.(Laws)" Christianity in China, Vol.I, Ch.2, pgs 48-49, by M. 1'Abbe Hue)

Sabbath observance was widespread and appears to have been opposed by the Roman Catholic Church. It was kept holy by Christians in Egypt in the third century, as the Oxyrhynchus Papyrus shows.(c. 200-250 A.D.)"Except ye make the Sabbath a real Sabbath [Greek, "sabbatize the Sabbath"], ye shall not see the Father." (The Oxyrhynchus Papyri, Pt. 1, pg 3, Logion 2, verses 4-11, London: Offices of the Egyptian Exploration Fund, 1898)

Early Church leader, Origen also enjoined the keeping of the Sabbath. "After the festival of the unceasing sacrifice (the crucifixion) is put the second festival of the Sabbath, and it is fitting for whoever is righteous among the saints to KEEP ALSO THIS FESTIVAL of the SABBATH. There remaineth therefore a sabbatismus, that is a keeping of the Sabbath, to the people of God."[Hebrews 4:9] (Homily on Numbers 23, para. 4, in Migne, Patrologia Groeca, Vol. 12, cols. 749,750)

The early church taught the Sabbath was for God's work of providence and meditation on His way of life."Thou shalt observe the Sabbath, on account of Him who ceased from His work of creation, but ceased not from His work of providence; it is a rest for meditation of the law, not for idleness of the hands." (Constitution of the Holy Apostles, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 7, pg 413, 3rd century) This was over 300 years after the resurrection of Christ.

Although the abolishment of the Sabbath and establishment of Sunday worship came through the Roman Catholic church, they freely admit there is absolutely no Biblical authority for it. Notice these statements by Roman Catholic Cardinal Gibbon, -"Is not every Christian obliged to sanctify SUNDAY, and to abstain on that day from unnecessary servile work? Is not the observance of this LAW among the most prominent of our sacred duties? But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of SUNDAY. The SCRIPTURES enforce the religious observance of SATURDAY (Seventh-day), a day we never sanctify." (Faith of our Fathers, by Cardinal Gibbon)

According to the noted historian, H.G. Wells, Christian Sunday worship was borrowed from Pagan Sun-Worship. "During this indefinite time a considerable amount of a sort of theocrasia (intimate union) seems to have gone on between the Christian cult and the almost equally popular and widely diffused Mithraic cult, and the cult Serapis-Isis-Horus. From the former it would seem the Christians ADOPTED SUNDAY as their chief DAY OF WORSHIP instead of the Jewish SABBATH." (The Outline of History 1, pg 455)

In an effort to stamp out Sabbath keeping the Roman church commanded Christians to fast on that day. (Go without food or water, 24 hours). From canon 26 of the Council of Elvira (c.305 A.D.) It appears that the Christian church in Spain were Sabbath keepers. Rome had introduced the practice of fasting on the Sabbath to counteract Sabbath keeping. Pope Sylvester (314-335) was the first to ORDER the churches to fast on the Sabbath, and Pope Innocent (402-417) made it a binding law in the churches that obeyed him.

The Sabbath keeping Churches in Persia underwent forty years of persecution under Shapur II from 335 to 375 specifically because they were Sabbath keepers. "They despise our SUN-GOD. Did not Zoroaster (Prophet of Mithra, the sun-god), the sainted founder of our divine beliefs, institute Sunday one thousand years ago in honour of the sun and supplant the Sabbath of the Old Testament. Yet these Christians have divine services on Saturday." (The Syriac Church and Fathers, by O'Leary, pg 83-84)

The Sabbath was kept in the early Eastern Churches, and some Churches of the West. "For in the Church ofMillaine (Milan), it seemes that Saturday was held in a farre esteeme... Not that the Easterne Churches, or any of the rest which observed that day were inclined to Judaism; but that they came together on the Sabbath day, to worship Jesus Christ the Lord of the Sabbath." (History of the Sabbath, Dr. Peter Heylyn, London 1636, Part 2, para. 5, pgs 73-74)

Sabbath keeping was the original position of the Church. "Sabbath-keeping, the original position of the Church, had spread west into Europe and from Palestine it spread East into India (Early Spread of Christianity, Mingana, Vol. 10, pg 460) and then into China. The introduction of Sabbath-keeping to India caused a controversy in Buddhism in 220 A.D. According to Lloyd (The Creed of Half Japan, pg 23), the Kushan Dynasty of North India called a council of Buddhist priests at Vaisalia to bring uniformity among the Buddhist monks on the observance of their weekly Sabbath." Even many Buddhist monks embraced the Sabbath after receiving and studying the Holy Bible.

Notice this puzzling quote from the historian Socrates. "For although almost all Churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and Rome (Catholics), on account of some ancient tradition, refuse to do this." (Ecclesiastical History, Socrates, Bk 5, Ch.22, pg 289) This ancient tradition was the keeping of Sunday as their day of worship. Sunday worship existed long before the birth of Jesus Christ.

The Roman Catholic Church pronounced all Christians keeping the Sabbath as being condemned and cut off from Christ. Council of Laodicea (c.366), Canon 29, -"Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day honouring rather the Lord's day (reference to Sunday) by resting, if possible, as Christians. However if any shall be found Judaizing, let them be ANATHEMA for Christ." (Mansi, II, pgs 569-570, also Hefele Councils, Vol. 2, b. 6) Notice the definition of "anathema" according to the World Book Dictionary, -"A person or thing that is utterly detested or condemned." And, -"A solemn curse by church authorities excommunicating some person from the church." Also, -"The act of denouncing and condemning some person or thing as evil."

There are too many more historical references these are but a few...

My dear friend, scripture and historical Christianity is all I have been promoting.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Hope this helps.
 
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and I've already answered in Scripture. Several of them in fact. And I made a sound logical case for my position with Scripture. So you respond, with Scripture and I'll just do the same. And we can play ping pong!


If you disagree with what it is I have posted please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures. As I have already addressed everything you have provided with God's Word. Please by all means. If you believe that you have the correct understanding of God's Word by all means instruct me lest I go in a wrong direction? So far you have not responded to my posts or the scriptures that I have used to already address your posts.

I am happy to move to the debate section of the forum for a friendly discussion if you would like to we can leave this here and move there? Please feel free to send me a PM as well.

What do you say?

.....

Only God's Word is true. It is on the Word of God we stand or fall.
 
Before the calling of Abraham, God dealt with all mankind the same. There was not a division of Jew and Gentile till after the calling of Abraham. Noah's ancestry comes from the godly line of Seth. He was not nor could he be considered a gentile. God had already decided at the beginning of creation whom He would call out (the Jew) (Matt. 25:34) and through what ancestry line it would be. (follow Seth Genealogy) (Gen. 5: 3-29). The modern use of gentile is used to denote nations apart from Israel, but in the beginning of it's use it meant "heathen". Gentile is not in original text, and it's usage confuses Scriptural teachings. BTW, In the plan of God, The Church is older than the calling of Israel. The calling out of the Church in it order to Israel (Eph. 1:3-5) as was his sacrifice for it....and all mankind. (1 Pet. 1:19-21)
In our Saviors strength
Douglas Summers


That Unfortunate Word "GENTILE" - Hope of Israel ...
www.hope-of-israel.org/unfortunateword.html
As all Paul’s writings are to Israelites, he uses ethnos to refer to his outcast kinsmen of Israel because that is how they were addressed in the Old Testament Scriptures -- Genesis 19:4-6; Genesis 18:18; Deuteronomy 32:41 (the “with” is not in the Hebrew text); Psalm 22:27, 28; Psalm 57:9; Psalm 67:4; Psalm 81:8; Psalm 108:3; Psalm 117:1; Isaiah 5:26; Isaiah 11:12; Isaiah 34:1; Jeremiah 1:5,10.
Yes, you are right as there was no division until Abraham who was the first to be called a Hebrew. Guess i just had Gentile on my brain when I was studying this today. I know Noah comes from the Godly line as that is not questionable. TY Douglas :)
 
If you disagree with what it is I have posted please address each post and the scrtiptures provided in each post and your reasons with the scriptures. As I have already addressed everything you have provided with God's Word. Please by all means. If you believe that you have the correct understanding of God's Word by all means instruct me lest I go in a wrong direction? So far you have not responded to my posts or the scriptures that I have used to already address your posts.

I am happy to move to the debate section of the forum for a friendly discussion if you would like to we can leave this here and move there? Please feel free to send me a PM as well.

What do you say?

.....

Only God's Word is true. It is on the Word of God we stand or fall.
I don't need to address each post. That's silly. I have demonstrated my position from Scripture. I didn't even need a half a dozen posts. Even just one verse of mine actually supports my view. You can accept the Scripture I offered or reject them. See post #24.
 
9) Do not promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity. (ToS 2.2)

Sabbath keeping is not historical Christianity.
Why is this person still allowed to be peddling it?
because of holiday company and other family stuff. Plus there are a lot of members who post stuff that is not in agreement
 
Since the Sabbath day was first given in writting to the Jews....although it was given in the beginning to Adam....
I would like to hear from a Jewish believer who has grwon up under the Law keping the Sabbath...
And hear their perspectiv on this issue!!!!!!!

LIke I said I have associated with both gentile and jewish believers who keep sabbath.....
But gentiles seem to always meltdown into these kind of arguemnts and never come to a conclusion or agreement..

My guess is most everyone here is gentile but if their is a Jewish believer here it would be great to get his input on this issue!!!!!!
 
Since the Sabbath day was first given in writting to the Jews....although it was given in the beginning to Adam....
I would like to hear from a Jewish believer who has grwon up under the Law keping the Sabbath...
And hear their perspectiv on this issue!!!!!!!

LIke I said I have associated with both gentile and jewish believers who keep sabbath.....
But gentiles seem to always meltdown into these kind of arguemnts and never come to a conclusion or agreement..

My guess is most everyone here is gentile but if their is a Jewish believer here it would be great to get his input on this issue!!!!!!
Well since I've been grafted in you all should just take my position on the issue and problem solved!
 
because of holiday company and other family stuff. Plus there are a lot of members who post stuff that is not in agreement

Common I have posted a tonne of scripture and historical references that claim was a false one. The thread and the scriptures are in accordance with the TOS Do not promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity. (ToS 2.2) Please read the OP and scriptures as well as the Historical references provided in post # 36.
 
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Not trying to put down us gentiles....
But I have found over the years that some gentiles try to act like Jews and can become very judgementql of others...
I had a good friend of mine who claimed to be Jewish and went off into this jewish pride thing and refused to go to gentile churches.......he never had any Jewish heritage...
Took him 15 years to outgrow it........
That is why I am saying....
Gentiles shudnt try to be Jews and Jews need to keep their heritage......
IF a Jew grows up under the Law let him keep these days without passing judgement on others.....
IF gentiles didnt grow up under the Law and feel like they need to keep Sabbath ....let them keep it without passing judgement on others

I have known a close Christian bro that I see 1-2 a year for the last 7 years.......
HE never told me He was jewish until I asked him rcently, and never bound any of these days on me or others as a believer........
Thats why I am saying Jewish believers seem to give more grace on these issues.......
 
closed for review... Tomorrow is a doctor day i will look into this hopefully Wednesday
A couple points..
it is hard to have a discussion with very long posts.. discussion when every one is in agreement are not read.

2.4 It is a violation to misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not flood a forum or thread with similar posts, or many posts in succession. Allow others a chance to speak and be heard. If you are responding to multiple posts in the same thread, please consider using the multi-quote feature. Please refrain from taking a thread too far off topic.
2.6 Please keep posts down to a respectable length .......
 
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