Justification and Sanctification

[PeterJens]

Absolutely not. This is what the Bible says about God's integrity.
Titus 1:2 - in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
Heb 6:18 - God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged.
I think it's clear to everyone that "breaking one's word" is the SAME as LYING. And the Bible says that God not only 'DOES NOT LIE', BUT 'IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE'.
Not only that, but this is a command for believers:
Col 3:9 - Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices
Not only does breaking one's word mean they have no integrity, if God did break His word, after commanding His children not to lie, He would be a huge hypocrite.
God's Word is internally consistent. We must look to Scripture to define and understand Scripture.
Yes. So what? How do His conditional promises relate to your claim that God can break His word??

Thanks free.
God does not lie, that is His choice. But He does send lying spirits on people.

23> "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
1 Kings 22:23

I am the LORD your God.
11> "'Do not steal. "'Do not lie. "'Do not deceive one another.
12> "'Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:10-12

19> God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
Numbers 23:19

13> Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth.
14> The LORD did not hesitate to bring the disaster upon us, for the LORD our God is righteous in everything he does; yet we have not obeyed him.
Daniel 9:13-14

Now some would say of God, He is bound by His nature and not free.
But He created both good and evil things, though that which is evil came out of that with is good, because
it could choose. Gods nature is choice, the choice to love or do something else.
His power is in always choosing to love and follow integrity and truth.

It sounds to me that if God could choose His actions, then that means there is no certainty or predictability.
A courageous person is courageous because they could choose, or else it was inevitable.
It was not inevitable that Jesus was going to die for us.

42> "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."
43> An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.
Luke 22:42-43

God is who He is because He chose, such wonder, such love.

5> Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6> Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7> but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Philippians 2:5-7

God chose to become a man, a servant.
What is the nature of love

6> Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7> It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8> Love never fails.
1 Corinthians 13:6-8

16> And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:16

The power of love is it chooses the best way through a situation, for all participants.
But choice is part of love, it is its power, temptation is always there, which is why it has
the power to overcome, else it would be merely the inevitable programming of the individual
that drives behaviour, and we are either doomed to sin or doomed to righteousness.

 

[MCoop]

You're right in saying you're not Mcoop. I apologize . My bad . I was addressing the question to Mcoop. Anyway I do strongly believe obedience will play a major role in salvation, which is entirely the discretion of God Almighty and His Lamb.
John MacArthur realized (IMO) folly of many Churches who are preaching saved by faith alone doctrine and in his sermon he points that out . He clearly states many Christians might be heading towards hell. Which is a strong statement. I leave it to you to interprete it as you would like . My conviction is each deed we have performed will be scrutinized and judged and accordingly we will be rewarded or punished. According to saved by faith alone doctrine many Christians will get heaven , where they will be punished , if they performed sinful deeds?
Or perhaps punished first and then sent to heaven ?
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whetherit be good or bad.( 2Cor 5:10)
And again in
Revelation 20:12 ►
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Revelation 21:27 ►
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

I'm also surprised when I hear pastors /teachers issue guarantee of salvation to those who responded to their Altar call and others as well. How can anyone know whose name is in Lamb's book of life and whose name is not ? This only God and the Lamb knows. Why then is salvation guarantee being handed out to everyone who claimed they believed.
Isnt this faulty doctrine and requires immediate correction? I believe it does and I'm now taking up this issue with several churches. Some of them accepted that the "salvation" CAN Be lost, if we fail to abide in the Lord, despite accepting Christ as Savior

John M. believes justification by faith alone. You are terribly reading into his sermon your own views. And by doing so, slandering him. I already suggested to you to read up on what exactly John M believes. John M does not believe in the heretical doctrine that a believer can lose their salvation. And by insinuating that he’s teaching this in that sermon is completely nonsense. False professors ARE NOT SAVED, but self deceived in believing that they are. This is what he’s teaching. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.. for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness comes by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatians 2:16, 21. If one holds that an elect believer can lose their salvation by their works, then Christ died in vain. The foolishness of this doctrine denies the gospel altogether. Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3.

 

[MCoop]

As I continue to study the message that is being taught by majority of Churches in US , I am convinced it's heresy. Since it is producing believers who are willing to accept Christ as Savior but find absolutely no need to OBEY Him, thus nullifying his sacrifice on the cross. Why did He at all die for us , I wonder, if we choose not to Obey Him? Unfortunately it's teduced to becoming a business deal , the message that is being taught nowadays by many Churches. Like the believer telling Christ " I believed in your story , now where is my SALVATION ?!
This is NO Christianity IMO. It's a very very sad state of affairs with ( unfortunately) disastrous consequences. And all teachers who taught this message will likely be held accountable by the Lord. It saddens me deeply. Often times it upsets me. How did the powerful Word of God end up like this ? I simply fail to understand.

Antinomianism is heresy and ought to be stood against. What nullifies the cross and Christ’s merits, is to believe ones works adds any merit towards its efficacy

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Antinomianism is heresy and ought to be stood against. What nullifies the cross and Christ’s merits, is to believe ones works adds any merit towards its efficacy

Mcoop can I please have your views on my following questions which come repeatedly to my mind :
Can you please tell me why Christ's hand-picked Apostles were obedient to the point of death if they knew obedience played no part in their salvation. They had already believed. Why didn't they run away from the scene of trouble and lived out a life in happy security they were already saved by grace through Faith in Jesus. They didn't do that . Instead they chose to lay down their lives for the gospel and the Lord
My other question is did Christ place a special onus on the Apostles or are we also expected by the Lord to be obedient to the point of death?

 

[MCoop]

Mcoop can I please have your views on my following questions which come repeatedly to my mind :
Can you please tell me why Christ's hand-picked Apostles were obedient to the point of death if they knew obedience played no part in their salvation. They had already believed. Why didn't they run away from the scene of trouble and lived out a life in happy security they were already saved by grace through Faith in Jesus. They didn't do that . Instead they chose to lay down their lives for the gospel and the Lord
My other question is did Christ place a special onus on the Apostles or are we also expected by the Lord to be obedient to the point of death?

Obedience is the mere fruit and follows salvation in Christ.. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ORDAINED that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10. The self deceived unrepentant false professor believes otherwise. But you need to deal with your slander of John M. To expose the heresy of antinomianism doesn’t justify the heresy of works based salvation. Both are wrong and both deny the gospel of Christ

 

[PeterJens]

Antinomianism is heresy and ought to be stood against. What nullifies the cross and Christ’s merits, is to believe ones works adds any merit towards its efficacy

Hi Mcoop,
Definition of antinomian. 1 : one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace (see 1grace 1a) the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation. 2 : one who rejects a socially established morality.

The above is my understanding to the term antinomian, the abandoning of morality.

Now it appears you think holding that morality matters is antinomian.
Ofcourse the meaning of words can change, but this is what I have used to describe the faith alone with
no morality description, because this is the theological position of antinomian believers.

Am I missing something? I am interested so I can follow the discussion, or else it becomes meaningless.
I have known people do this, change the meaning of words and continue a discussion meaning one thing
while other readers thought they meant something else. God bless you

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Obedience is the mere fruit and follows salvation in Christ.. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ORDAINED that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:10. The self deceived unrepentant false professor believes otherwise. But you need to deal with your slander of John M. To expose the heresy of antinomianism doesn’t justify the heresy of works based salvation. Both are wrong and both deny the gospel of Christ

Dear Mcoop you say that obedience is mere fruit and follows salvation in Christ. So how do you explain those believers in Christ who continue in sinful lifestyle while others may spend a lifetime following the Lord and obeying His commands . So after believing in Christ which group had received true salvation and which one had not ? I'm asking because some obeyed some didn't. Why was the Fruit different for these two groups of people

 

[MCoop]

Hi Mcoop,
Definition of antinomian. 1 : one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace (see 1grace 1a) the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation. 2 : one who rejects a socially established morality.

The above is my understanding to the term antinomian, the abandoning of morality.

Now it appears you think holding that morality matters is antinomian.
Ofcourse the meaning of words can change, but this is what I have used to describe the faith alone with
no morality description, because this is the theological position of antinomian believers.

Am I missing something? I am interested so I can follow the discussion, or else it becomes meaningless.
I have known people do this, change the meaning of words and continue a discussion meaning one thing
while other readers thought they meant something else. God bless you

No I don’t think holding to morality is antinomian. How have you come to that conclusion? GotQuestions explains what an antinomian is pretty well

 

[MCoop]

Dear Mcoop you say that obedience is mere fruit and follows salvation in Christ. So how do you explain those believers in Christ who continue in sinful lifestyle while others may spend a lifetime following the Lord and obeying His commands . So after believing in Christ which group had received true salvation and which one had not ? I'm asking because some obeyed some didn't. Why was the Fruit different for these two groups of people

Not sure if you get what I’m saying or just refuse to read what I’m saying. The sermon you put up on John M explains how these false professors are self deceived. They aren’t Christians if they continue in a life of sinfulness. True repentance from a regenerated heart, seeks deliverance from sin and desires righteousness and holiness, and lives by faith. This is salvation. All of grace

 

[chessman]

What shall we do then? Shall we discard the English bibles and learn Greek as spoken in those days so that we too shall understand?

I haven’t suggested that you discard the English Bibles.

You are misrepresenting my point. I never said or implied nor do I believe the English translations are incorrect. It’s just a fact that modern English does not distinguish a plural form of “you”. NT Greek does. So do Southerners by using y’all.

Chessman, if we can't trust our bibles, we might as well stop reading them.

I haven’t suggested that we can’t trust our Bibles or to stop reading them.

I didn't find any difference in verse 15.

Then you are overlooking the difference in Paul saying that the Holy Spirit is in the body of the church (y’all) versus the Holy Spirit being in the body (the flesh) of an individual.

 

[FreeGrace]

My apologies Free , but I beg to disagree with your views.

To me it's Crystal clear, the message of the Bible , that Faith without works is dead ( as explained by NT writer James) and therefore incapable of saving anyone.

My disagreement with your understanding is that James isn't even speaking of saving faith, in spite of 2:14, as most people think

His whole issue in 2:14-26 is about hypocrisy, even though he never used the word. His brother, our Lord Jesus used that word extensively with the Pharisees.

Consider 2:15,16 -
15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.
16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?

So, what's his point here? Lip service is hypocrisy, as his example shows. Can believers be hypocrites? Of course they can. That is why we have 1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

This verse is saying the exact same thing as James 2:15,16.

I would rather accept renowned bible scholar and master John MacArthur's views than yours ( submitted respectfully)

I would easily accept the obvious meaning of James 2:14-26 and 1 John 3:18 more than any commentator who doesn't understand the words.

Since there is disagreement, please explain how James 2:15,16 isn't about just lip service, or hypocrisy, but a demonstration of how unbelievers live.

And, also explain why John wrote what he did in 1 Jn 3:18 which was to believers and his point was the same as James.

 

[FreeGrace]

Your post does not deserve a serious answer.
You do NOT want to discuss the sealing, and this is what started this whole back and forth that is worth NOTHING.
Me saying something, you saying I didn't say it. A waste of time.

How interesting. I am very interested in discussion Eph 1;13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 but this poster isn't interested in discussion with me.

P.S. Regarding Ephesians 1:13, very quickly.
You're sealed with the Holy Spirit for as long as your born again and have eternal life.

I wonder why this poster thinks the words "as long as your born again and have eternal life" have any relevance to Eph 1:13 or 14 when those words don't even occur in the verses. Nor NO WHERE ELSE in Scripture.

But if the other poster would follow forum rules and provide Scripture that supports her claims, she could have a point. But there are no such verses that support what is being claimed.

If you are not born again, at any time during your lifetime, you lose your eternal life and you are not longer sealed.

Couldn't help but notice that no verses are given to support this claim.

However, those sealed have believed (Eph 1:13) and therefore have eternal life (John 3:15,1636, 5:24, 6:47) and therefore shall never perish (John 10:28).

God does not force you to remain sealed.

Let's follow forum rules and provide verses that support claims.

Do you have free will?

Irrelevant to the issue of God's sealing with the Holy Spirit.

What did Jesus say about the coming Holy Spirit? That He would be with us forever. John 14:16

I believe you do not think you do if you are forced to be "sealed" forever.

Where does "force" enter the issue? No where is where.

[QUOTE Even if you would no longer WISH to be.[/QUOTE]
Where does the Bible teach that one can undo anything that God has done for them? Again, no where is where.

If there were verses that supported any of these claims, I'm sure they would have been shared.

 

[FreeGrace]

Free Grace can I please have your views on my following questions which come repeatedly to my mind :

Gladly.

Can you please tell me why Christ's hand-picked Apostles were obedient to the point of death if they knew obedience played no part in their salvation.

First, until they were indwelt with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, they were hardly obedient. When Jesus was arrested, they scattered like sheep. In fact, when pressed, Peter denied Him 3 times.

It was only after they received the Holy Spirit did they exhibit the power of the Christian life.

They had already believed.

But until they were indwelt with the Spirit, they scattered like sheep.

Why didn't they run away from the scene of trouble and lived out a life in happy security they were already saved by grace through Faith in Jesus. They didn't do that . Instead they chose to lay down their lives for the gospel and the Lord

By this time, they were indwelt with the Spirit AND the miracle of the resurrection proved to them that He was the ultimate Source of Power. That's why they were willing to lay down their lives for Him.

Are you suggesting that their obedience was for maintaining their salvation?? If so, where would I find such teaching in the Bible?

My other question is did Christ place a special onus on the Apostles or are we also expected by the Lord to be obedient to the point of death?

Of course we are. But where did Jesus ever even suggest or hint that obedience was for maintenance of salvation?

Instead, Jesus made 3 points about one's security.

POINT 1: those who believe possess eternal life. John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:47, 11:25-27
This means that at the very moment one believes they possess eternal life. Because there are no verses about any probationary time frame before one receives eternal life.

POINT 2: Jesus Himself is the Giver of the gift of eternal life. John 10:28a

POINT 3: Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28b

Please take note that I have supported each of these points with Scripture.

If Jesus never made these points, please address each of the verses and prove through exegesis that He said and meant something else.

Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace]

Thanks free.
God does not lie, that is His choice. But He does send lying spirits on people.

The reason, of course, is for discipline. So your point is irrelevant to the issue. God does NOT lie. Ever.

23> "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
1 Kings 22:23

I am the LORD your God.
11> "'Do not steal. "'Do not lie. "'Do not deceive one another.
12> "'Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:10-12

19> God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
Numbers 23:19

13> Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our sins and giving attention to your truth.
14> The LORD did not hesitate to bring the disaster upon us, for the LORD our God is righteous in everything he does; yet we have not obeyed him.
Daniel 9:13-14

Thanks for supporting my claims from Scripture. He does not lie. And I gave 2 verses from the NT that plainly SAY that He doesn't lie. In fact, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to lie.

It sounds to me that if God could choose His actions, then that means there is no certainty or predictability.

Is this really a suggestion that God can not choose His actions? Choose what He does?

 

[chessman]

Can you please tell me why Christ's hand-picked Apostles were obedient to the point of death if they knew obedience played no part in their salvation.

Because they knew that He (Jesus Christ) is the satisfaction for our sins.

And He Himself is the satisfaction for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world’s. And by this we know that we have come-to-know Him: if we are keeping His commandments.​

1 John 2:2-3 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 John 2:2-3&version=DLNT

Is it your opinion that Jesus hand-picked His apostles pre-knowing that they would in fact be obedient to the end or was He simply hoping that the would?

My other question is did Christ place a special onus on the Apostles or are we also expected by the Lord to be obedient to the point of death?

He is the satisfaction of not only their sins but for ours also. Thus, the onus is on the entire world to know that He is the satisfaction for our sins. Disciples of Christ know this. Deceivers of Christ believe it is their level of obedience (versus His) which satisfies their sins.

Is it your opinion that somone claiming to have known Him and yet not keeping His commandments to the end is an ex-Christian or a deceiver?

 

[PeterJens]

No I don’t think holding to morality is antinomian. How have you come to that conclusion? GotQuestions explains what an antinomian is pretty well

This is the problem in reading part of a conversation, it is easy to get a little lost.
Thanks for clarifying this point.
What is interesting to me, is the point that can lead to antinomian view through the back door.
I read an article where in effect someone said the wickedness of the heart is so bad and so
unredeemable, it is impossible to do even one good act. I can see therefore the idea people can
do anything righteous is then removed, though this contradicts what Paul declares.

My bridgehead on the line of discussion, was for 5 minutes could someone be cleansed and walking
in righteousness before the Lord, undefiled and Holy. I saw people raising the question time and again,
but those who did not believe it was possible could not articulate this or admit it.

Why does such an argument exist? Because in the temple priests had to be purified and they were deemed
Holy acceptable to serve in the temple before the Lord. If this purification did not work, why did God command
it and accept it.

Jesus took the concept one step further. Once you accept you can be Holy, defilement becomes important.
17> "Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body?
18> But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'
19> For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
Matthew 15:17-19

So the source of defilement is the heart.
25> "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26> Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
Matthew 23:25-26

8> For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9> But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
2 Peter 1:8-9

It appears we are not only cleansed but Holy and forgiven.
If we continue in this and are not defiled we walk in Jesus and His will.
Now I say Amen to this, and call others to strive to work out their salvation in fear and trembling
and realise the victory we have in Christ and walk towards it, Amen

 

[PeterJens]

The enemy and defeat.
Imagine walking in Gods will is like riding a bicycle, but the enemy wants to discourage everyone from
such a thing.
1. All arguments will be used to show it is impossible
2. Any failure, whatever size will be used to shout hypocrite
3. Riding the bicycle itself will be called evil
4. All promises or victory will be downplayed as sarcastic and cynical traps
5. Self righteousness, or believing you have what God promised will we called arrogance
6. Traps will be laid, abuse hurled, anything to provoke an evil response to show an evil heart
7. No one verse that supports the possibility will be discussed or looked at
8. Any reasonable argument will be viewed as demonic
9. Any failure on any aspect of life will be called sin
10. Statements such as "I would throw you out of our church for sharing this" will be used

If you want to know Gods will, when the enemy does this, you know you are on the right track.
What I was staggard by was people calling me a liar, insulting, blasphemer, heretical, trampling
on the gospel, earning salvation, a legalist.

All I asked was it possible to walk as Jesus walked.
Paul said this was our goal and Paul was our example. John said we needed to be like Jesus.
I know how hard this is, I know how lost my heart has been and wrapped in so many layers of
defence and selfishness, but my hearts protest, speaks more about the truth of Gods word than
anything, because my heart will defend anything against change.

I am called to listen and learn from Jesus, not men, or teachers, or churches, or denominations,
but Jesus. And I am told this will cost my life in the world, which I need to lay down.
Being a friend to the world is being an enemy of God.
Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4

Sanctification is all about going from being a sinner with sinful habits, attitudes and approaches
into a child of heaven and like Jesus.

If you do not believe this, read the bible, ask Jesus and listen and learn.
As a live seed grows into a plant that blossoms, so the good seed planted in a heart will bear
fruit if fed and watered. It is just how it works, pure and simple.

 

[PeterJens]

The reason, of course, is for discipline. So your point is irrelevant to the issue. God does NOT lie. Ever.
Thanks for supporting my claims from Scripture. He does not lie. And I gave 2 verses from the NT that plainly SAY that He doesn't lie. In fact, that it is IMPOSSIBLE for Him to lie.
Is this really a suggestion that God can not choose His actions? Choose what He does?

Here is the point, fatalism. You want to use the word impossible. That is cause and effect.
Once you go there you end up in fatalism.
A child of God is not free to leave God, He is chosen so must do righteous things, because this is
Gods work in his life. Except saved sinners still sin and choose sin. So either it is very possible
to choose and they are not forced, or they are not saved at all.

It is why using the word impossible about Holiness and God, implies something about the Kingdom, His
will and salvation that distorts it all. Maybe you cannot see this, but it is part of the gospel reality.
Gods creation is founded on love and choice. You see it in everything you do and experience, because this
is the creators heart.

The KIngdom is the Kingdom because we choose love, because God chose us and planted love in our hearts.
But for this to be true, we can choose to fail and walk away.

Many cannot accept this argument, because choice for them makes them insecure.
But then the Kingdom maybe further away from them than they realise, though also at their doorstep.

 

[FreeGrace]

I am called to listen and learn from Jesus, not men, or teachers, or churches, or denominations,
but Jesus.

Jesus made 3 points about one's security.

POINT 1: those who believe possess eternal life. John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:47, 11:25-27
This means that at the very moment one believes they possess eternal life. Because there are no verses about any probationary time frame before one receives eternal life.

POINT 2: Jesus Himself is the Giver of the gift of eternal life. John 10:28a

POINT 3: Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28b

Please take note that I have supported each of these points with Scripture.

If Jesus never made these points, please address each of the verses and prove through exegesis that He said and meant something else.

If you do not believe this, read the bible, ask Jesus and listen and learn.

Do you agree that Jesus taught these 3 points about eternal security?

 

[FreeGrace]

Here is the point, fatalism. You want to use the word impossible.

However, it's not my word at all.

Heb 6:18 - God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged.

It's the Bible that uses the word "impossible". I just quote the Bible.

That is cause and effect.

No.

\Once you go there you end up in fatalism.

Does the Bible end up in fatalism?

It is why using the word impossible about Holiness and God, implies something about the Kingdom, His
will and salvation that distorts it all. Maybe you cannot see this, but it is part of the gospel reality.

Since the Bible uses the word, this is just a charge against the Bible about distorting "it all".

The KIngdom is the Kingdom because we choose love, because God chose us and planted love in our hearts.

This is mumbo jumbo. The Kingdom is the Kingdom because it is God's Kingdom. For no other reason.

But for this to be true, we can choose to fail and walk away.

Your posts are full of claims, but without ANY evidence from Scripture. Please follow forum rules.