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jaybird said:
its pretty bold to say Jesus teaches one MUST believe He is the Most High when there is no scripture that says that.
John 8 24 does not say that, your adding an assumption and worse, your making that assumption a command from Jesus.
what does Jesus mean when He makes the statement, the Christ, the Most High, im not sure, im not the final authority, but i would never try and teach people, thats what Jesus really meant, as if i have the authority to speak for the Christ. my goodness!
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This has absolutely nothing to do with "what Jesus really meant," and everything to do with what he plainly, and clearly says. Jesus says that unless people believe that he is YHWH, the I Am of the OT, that they will die in their sins.

It just does not get any clearer than that. It cannot.
 
Free said:
This has absolutely nothing to do with "what Jesus really meant," and everything to do with what he plainly, and clearly says. Jesus says that unless people believe that he is YHWH, the I Am of the OT, that they will die in their sins.

It just does not get any clearer than that. It cannot.
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if it does not get any clearer then why are you having to add words that are not there?
 
they also exclude this "command" that one MUST believe Jesus is the Most High in the purpose of the book, did they forget?
John 20 30-31
30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
 
jaybird said:
they also exclude this "command" that one MUST believe Jesus is the Most High in the purpose of the book, did they forget?
John 20 30-31
30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his
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It's all a part of the context. You can't dismiss it just because you disagree with it. And again, you're creating a false dichotomy.
 
jaybird said:
the words i bolded are not in the passage
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I had to add those for your sake, for further explanation and clarification, because you refuse to understand and address what is clearly stated in Scripture. But I have added nothing to Scripture.
 
Free said:
It's all a part of the context. You can't dismiss it just because you disagree with it. And again, you're creating a false dichotomy.
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im not dismissing anything because i dont like the way it sounds, im going by what the scripture says, and only what it says with no assumptions added to it.
 
Free said:
I had to add those for your sake, for further explanation and clarification, because you refuse to understand and address what is clearly stated in Scripture. But I have added nothing to Scripture.
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you had to add them because the scripture according to you is so clear and straight forward, yet people have been debating its meaning for many many years.
the command for us to not steal is not debated like this, the reason why is because its clear and straight forward.
 
jaybird said:
im not dismissing anything because i dont like the way it sounds, im going by what the scripture says, and only what it says with no assumptions added to it.
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No, you're not. You're dodging what is clearly written.

Joh 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (NASB)

Which is to say, as has been explained to you more than once now, "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins."

Grammatically, it makes no sense, unless by "I am," Jesus is referring to himself as the "I Am" of the OT. Then it makes perfect sense.
 
Free said:
No, you're not. You're dodging what is clearly written.

Joh 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (NASB)
Which is to say, as has been explained to you more than once now, "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins."

Grammatically, it makes no sense, unless by "I am," Jesus is referring to himself as the "I Am" of the OT. Then it makes perfect sense.
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it makes perfect sense to believe "HE" means the Christ, Son of the Most High, just as the purpose of the book confirms Jesus is the Christ, Son of the Most High, it makes no mention that one Must Believe Jesus is the Most High.
 
jaybird said:
you had to add them because the scripture according to you is so clear and straight forward, yet people have been debating its meaning for many many years.
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This is straightforward. It's debated because people deny the deity of Jesus. Could there be more than one meaning? Sure. But at a minimum, it is a claim to deity and that salvation rests on believing that claim.
 
jaybird said:
it makes perfect sense to believe "HE" means the Christ, Son of the Most High, just as the purpose of the book confirms Jesus is the Christ, Son of the Most High, it makes no mention that one Must Believe Jesus is the Most High.
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What "HE"?
 
Free said:
This is straightforward. It's debated because people deny the deity of Jesus. Could there be more than one meaning? Sure. But at a minimum, it is a claim to deity and that salvation rests on believing that claim.
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if salvation can only be obtained by that belief then it would be in the purpose of the book and emphasized by the Apostles and its not.
 
Free said:
Again, I ask, what "HE"?
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because "He" is not in the greek but interpreters add? then this would mean every time the phrase ego eimi is used they are claiming to be the Most High? do you know how many times this comes up, many.
 
jaybird said:
because "He" is not in the greek but interpreters add? then this would mean every time the phrase ego eimi is used they are claiming to be the Most High? do you know how many times this comes up, many.
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Yes, the interpreters add "He" in this passage, and in some others. But, no, it does not mean that every time ego eimi is used that it is a claim to be YHWH. Context. Context. Context. In this case, context is clear. And quite often, words take on a more significant meaning when used of Jesus or Jesus uses them.
 
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