Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
-
Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
A quick look at the 4 Christian baptisms
- Thread starter Senior
- Start date
Senior
Member
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:1-4
This refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit where the Holy Spirit
comes UPON people, and NOT INSIDE which happens when
people first receive the Holy Spirit and become a new creation.
There are 7 (and only 7) verses in the NT, which speak of UPON
accompanying this baptism of anointing for special spiritual service.
BTW, no one receives any of the 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Cor 12)
who has not received this special baptism of spiritual power.
Also, please notice in the above verse that these people were
FILLED with the Holy Spirit ... other believers are not FILLED.
Also, historically, some believers have received the precious Holy Spirit
both inside and upon simultaneously.
Yes, I know, this is NOT what your church teaches!
Last edited:
chessman
Member
Unfortunately for your position stated above, the Text says they were “filled with” the Holy Spirit, not come ‘upon’ by the Holy Spirit.
Senior
Member
Yes, but UPON is mentioned in 7 other verses which are talking about this baptism.
chessman
Member
We were talking about this verse. And it specifically says they were “filled with” the Holy Spirit, yet your view was/is that the Holy Spirit was and I quote “NOT INSIDE” them.
Whenever your position contradicts Scripture, it’s a sure sign your position isn’t based on Scripture.
The Holy Spirit
My three are the same as your first three.
I know it’s coming to the Church soon, for the last great revival.
One thing I believe the fire is, is Love.
A perfect love that drives out fear of being martyred.
Just my thought.
JLB
It says -
Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:3-4
Can you show me another scripture after this event that shows they were baptized with fire?
JLB
chessman
Member
“Another”??? This Scripture doesn’t say they were baptized with fire that day. That’s my point. There was something “like” fire there, not actual fire. There was sound there, so I suppose there’s more Biblical evidence for this being Baptism with the Holy Spirit and Baptism with sound, than for the Baptism with fire John prophecies.
But if you look at Luke’s parallel account of John The Baptist statement, there’s more details on the Baptism of fire than Matthew recorded:
John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but the one who is more powerful than I am is coming, of whom I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing shovel is in his hand, to clean out his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his storehouse, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Luke 3:16-17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 3:16-17&version=LEBNo that’s real fire, not something “like” or “as if” fire.
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11
Then your saying the prophet John the Baptist was a false prophet?
JLB
chessman
Member
Nope. That would be a false assumption on your part. I’m simply not someone who assumes Luke’s record of them seeing something that was inspired to be recorded as being “like fire” is actually being baptized with fire.
Are you saying Luke was wrong and they were baptized with actual fire versus what he said it was; something like fire?
But getting back to Luke’s account, I’m saying that when He will burn up the chaff (outer coverage of the fruit/wheat) with unquenchable fire, that IS baptism with fire.
Ok. Here are the options.
- Either the Day of Pentecost was the fulfillment of John the Baptist’s prophecy of - “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire”
2. Or the fulfillment came after the day of Pentecost, whereby the scripture indicates that event.
3. Or, John the Baptist is s false prophet.
If it is option 2, then please share the scripture that shows us the fulfillment, if you believe it was not fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.
JLB
No I believe the day of Pentecost was the (beginning of the) fulfillment of John’s prophecy -
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:11
then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:3-4
Then all at once a pillar of fire appeared before their eyes. It separated into tongues of fire that engulfed each one of them. Acts 2:3 TPT
and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, Acts 2:3 YLT
JLB
Last edited:
chessman
Member
John the Baptist didn’t prophecy options.
John the Baptist didn’t prophecy to the people that He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and something “like” fire. He said fire.
He didn’t say the people would be baptized with the Holy Spirit and fire on the same day.
I did. The same Quote Matthew recorded is recorded by Luke in more detail:
John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but the one who is more powerful than I am is coming, of whom I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing shovel is in his hand, to clean out his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his storehouse, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Luke 3:16-17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Luke 3:16-17&version=LEB
Senior
Member
You're right, I mis-spoke.
The Holy Spirit came both INSIDE and UPON in this particular case.
I agree.
I agree.
This occurred on the day of Pentecost.
It plainly says so here in Acts 2:3
then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:3-4
Then all at once a pillar of fire appeared before their eyes. It separated into tongues of fire that engulfed each one of them. Acts 2:3 TPT
and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them, Acts 2:3 YLT
JLB
chessman
Member
Were they burned up that day as Luke recorded the chaff will be burned up?
Which is it; 1) as it were of fire 2) as of fire 3) fire or 4) something like fire???
Although it really doesn’t matter your opinion because the apostolic interpretation in Luke clearly shows that the Baptism of fire is Baptism with unquenchable fire that actually burns up the chaff, not something that looks like fire.
Fire.
It’s the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire.
Just like what John the Baptist foretold.
John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Luke 3:16
JLB