You're basically telling me I have no mind of my own that I do whatever I do because of some directive from the governing body and you're wondering why I would have a reaction. Look if you honestly think I do or say something or post something because of some directive from the governing body then don't read my posts, or answer my posts and I'll do the same with you. How about that? All you do when you make a statement that a Jehovah's Witness makes some post because of some directive from the governing body is make rude and insulting statements and you wonder why no one answers you? Me, I'll tell you what a rude and insulting guy you are and that's all you are, and can think whatever way you want about me. This is the last I'll post to you since all you want to do is be rude and insulting.
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Witnessing to a Jehovah Witness
- Thread starter Ken Jones
- Start date
Nonsense, and this "answer" isn't much better than the dead silence I've gotten from the previous five JWs I asked. It was a simple question, and instead of a simple answer, all I keep getting is vitriol. There are a lot of people who regard me as far more than simply "rude and insulting," including one JW who I highly respect.
So be it.
Why are there Jehovah witness, Catholics, Protestants, divisions ?
The same reason divisions happened after the flood, it is easy to divide people, just the language achieved that. After that people come together in Christ, ( heaven/not earth) but are still divided if they are earthly.
The same reason divisions happened after the flood, it is easy to divide people, just the language achieved that. After that people come together in Christ, ( heaven/not earth) but are still divided if they are earthly.
Because of Adam and Eve's disobedience mankind was not going to be united as one, as God wanted them to be when God told them to be fruitful and fill the earth before they had sinned.
The language divided people because they were disobedient to God and not filling the earth as they were suppose to. They were staying in the same spot on earth instead of spreading throughout the earth as God had commanded them. So God caused them to spread throughout the earth by giving them different languages. The point is there are divisions because of the disobedience of mankind toward the True God.
Division is when the peace of Christ is not in man, no other reason, the Spirit is missing, and what is in man is division.
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
The point remaining, that JW's, or any divided sect of religions on the whole earth, are no different than one another, neither is having a thread about JW's going to make the divisions of the entire world disappear. Now is any other answer going to change the fact, that Gods revelations for why there are divisions NOW, BE ANSWERED ANY OTHER WAY, THAN THE WORD TELLING US EXACTLY WHY.
Highway54
Member
Great question Gordon. That is addressed in the Bible quite understandably. Luke recorded this in Acts sir: (Acts 20:29, 30) 29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.
Paul said to Timothy: (1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons,
And in his 2nd letter to him: (2 Timothy 4:3, 4) For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled. 4 They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.
By the end of the first century just prior to his death, God inspired John to write: (1 John 2:18, 19) Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort.
Already by the end of the first century the foretold apostasy (2 Thes 2:3) was well underway. Many had already fallen away forming their own faiths. Over the nearly 2 millenniums thousands of sects formed, so many that true Christianity was no longer identifiable. But when Jesus was enthroned and we entered into the last days of this world, God's people once again are being gathered together Isa 2:2,3 and the Bible identifies them beyond any doubt. One just needs to do a little research to find His people and go with them Zech 8:23
Highway54
Member
Who is the God of Jesus Ken?
Highway54
Member
Believing and obeying Eugene.Does Baptism save a person, even though one who believes and is baptized is saved, it is in reality believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. There are other scripture that even say any that call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
I'll just mention this, but Romans Chapter Ten's context in Israel today, chapter nine was Israel past, and chapter eleven is Israel future.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. There's been many a soldier call out for God's help in a foxhole with the enemy approaching.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
Highway54
Member
Do you have an example sir?
Highway54
Member
I believe that happened in the first century Cygnus, correct? If not you would be implying that to date no one has become a Christian.
Highway54
Member
Would you like to put these to the test Glory? If you do, may I ask which version of the Bible do you prefer?
Highway54
Member
It seems to be current now Hidden, I only respond to threads on the first page. So since this is in fact on the first page, and it is a direct attack on my faith, I will put my 2 cents here, because if one wants to know what we teach, then it should come through us and not someone who has not knowledge of the faith.
Highway54
Member
I would be most honored to answer your question Hidden, please feel free to ask sir, I will do my utmost to answer it.
It was just something I've always been curious about. Not that big a deal really. But I've seen Catholics do it as well, and I think it's because they may be seeking to defend their faith as well, so I suspected they would do searches on Catholicism or the word Catholic, and if anything popped up they would immediately go to that thread and respond.
I don't have a dominant denominational fix, if you will, though I will tend to react strongly to attacks on the continuation of the spiritual gifts, so I do understand what it is like to get offended with attacks on my beliefs, and I certainly don't dislike Jehovah's Witnesses by any means, I just have a number of problems with their doctrines is all. But I do appreciate the kind response. Tigger 2 is someone whose posts I will enjoy reading, because I find him to be more on my level than even most conservative theologians on the forums, so maybe we can share some discussion whenever he gets involved. Either that or there may be some things you and I may end up discussing some day just between us. But like I said, I'm just pretty staunchly against a number of Jehovahs Witness doctrines, some of which I regard as spiritually destructive, though I certainly mean no offense to you or anyone of your faith.
God bless, and it was good reading your posts.
God willing, we'll have some time to discuss things going forward.Your friend,
Hidden
I do not need to test between the NWT and the KJV I use. It's through the Holy Spirit, not the Watch Tower society, that teaches us all truths.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are controlled by a "Governing Body" which they claim is the "faithful and discreet slave" spoken of at Mathew 24:45. This group consists of 10 to 15 mature men that, Jehovah’s Witnesses are told, have direct guidance from God. The Governing Body in turn instructs followers with this guidance through the pages of the Watchtower and other publications. Jehovah’s Witnesses are told by this "Governing Body" that Scripture alone is insufficient to understand the things of God. One needs the Watchtower Society and the literature it publishes to properly understand the Bible. ("Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. Watchtower, December 1, 1981 p.27) they are the instruments God is using to teach the world the deeper things of the scriptures. People are not to think for themselves but instead submit to the Watchtower Society teachings. (" But a spirit of independent thinking does not prevail in God’s organization, and we have sound reasons for confidence in the men taking the lead among us. Watchtower September 15, 1989 p. 23) Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are the only people on earth that are serving God and the only ones that will be saved. They dare not question the teachings of the Watchtower Society; one who questions the Watchtower Society is considered to be weak in faith and could be disfellowshipped.
Highway54
Member
Thanks Hidden, please allow me to address on of those doctrines. You did mention Spiritual gifts, of which we do believe they are extinct. Do you have a particular gift that you would like to discuss, in light of your familiarity of this: (1 Corinthians 13:8-10) . . .But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. 9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, 10 but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.It was just something I've always been curious about. Not that big a deal really. But I've seen Catholics do it as well, and I think it's because they may be seeking to defend their faith as well, so I suspected they would do searches on Catholicism or the word Catholic, and if anything popped up they would immediately go to that thread and respond.
I don't have a dominant denominational fix, if you will, though I will tend to react strongly to attacks on the continuation of the spiritual gifts, so I do understand what it is like to get offended with attacks on my beliefs, and I certainly don't dislike Jehovah's Witnesses by any means, I just have a number of problems with their doctrines is all. But I do appreciate the kind response. Tigger 2 is someone whose posts I will enjoy reading, because I find him to be more on my level than even most conservative theologians on the forums, so maybe we can share some discussion whenever he gets involved. Either that or there may be some things you and I may end up discussing some day just between us. But like I said, I'm just pretty staunchly against a number of Jehovahs Witness doctrines, some of which I regard as spiritually destructive, though I certainly mean no offense to you or anyone of your faith.
God bless, and it was good reading your posts.
Your friend,
Hidden
Highway54
Member
I believe you have done a fine synopsis of our faith. Now the point is, do you think any of that is unscriptural, or do you believe it helps to identify God's people? If there is any particular part that you think is unscriptural, please state it, and I will address it maam.
I will make it easy for you as what the Watch Tower Society governs and teaches are of their own Bible, NWT, they wrote to fit their teachings. You are not even a true Jehovah Witness as they are forbidden to associate with anyone outside their religion.
Disfellowshipping
Most Christian churches have a system of moral oversight, but their systems are set up to help individuals with problems. Only after extensive effort over a period of time is action taken. Jehovah's Witnesses claim that Disfellowshipping is a loving act but in fact it is their most important control mechanism. It allows the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to control its members with guilt and fear.
The Watchtower Society makes a lot of rules, based on their interpretations of various scriptures that all Jehovah's Witnesses must follow. Members are taught that that they must turn each other in for any rule violations. If they observe another Jehovah's Witness breaking a rule and do not report him or her to the elders they are as guilty as the offending party. Anyone breaking any of the Watchtower Society rules is called before 3 elders in a private meeting that is conducted like a trial. The elders become judge and jury deciding whose is repentant and who is not.
Members, who are found to be unrepentant of violations of Watchtower rules by these elders, are disfellowshipped. Jehovah’s Witnesses can be disfellowshipped for a number of rule violations: premarital or extramarital sex, using alcohol excessively, using tobacco products, celebrating Christmas, reciting the pledge of allegiance, lying, stealing, joining the military, speaking to a disfellowshipped Witness, reading religious material not published by the governing body, or running for political office just to name a few. Fellow members are then required to shun him/her completely, having no contact even if the disfellowshipped person is a family member. (Some allowances are made if the family member is living in the same household). Disfellowshipping has a devastating effect because the individual's entire religious, family and social life are rooted in the Society. Keep in mind Jehovah’s Witnesses who are disfellowshipped are no longer part of the Watchtower Society and have, therefore, lost all hope of salvation until they can prove themselves worthy of being accepted back into the Watchtower Organization by their works. Elders in the congregation are the ones who decide when an individual has earned the right to come back into the fold, and the Watchtower Organization instructs elders that it would be very rare for one to earn their way back in less than a year. In order to earn their way back they must attend meetings regularly, sit in the back of the church -Kingdom Hall- while everyone in the congregation ignores them, if anyone did dare to speak to them they could be disfellowshipped themselves. They must do this with the knowledge that if Armageddon should come before they have earned their way back they will be destroyed. Sad to say Disfellowshipping has resulted in suicide. Those who leave on their own are treated just as a disfellowshipped one. Once you join their group there is no easy way out.
Highway54
Member
The Bible was authored by Jehovah, penned by His witnesses, for His witnesses maam. We have done out utmost to translate it as closely to the original as possible. The clear alteration of other versions to promote doctrines is evident.
I am unaware that God accepts multiple faiths Glory, perhaps you could offer Scriptural support for that.
Disfellowshipping is a loving arrangement from God, designed not only to protect His sheep from wolves, but to help the individual come to his senses. God said in His word:
1co 5:9 I wrote unto you in my epistle to have no company with fornicators;
1co 5:10 not at all [meaning] with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world:
1co 5:11 but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat.
1co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within?
1co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.
2jo 1:9 Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ, hath not God: he that abideth in the teaching, the same hath both the Father and the Son.
2jo 1:10 If any one cometh unto you, and bringeth not this teaching, receive him not into [your] house, and give him no greeting:
2jo 1:11 for he that giveth him greeting partaketh in his evil works.
I realize that most faiths pick and choose what they want to obey maam, but God's people obey all that He commands 1 Jn 5:3.
Keep in mind we realize all people sin, some seriously at times, but God forgives those who recognize their sin, and repent. David being a prime example. So in order for an individual to be disfellowshipped among God's people they have to have committed a serious sin, which has to be documented either by a minimum of two witnesses, or by confession, and then the individual would have no remorse, and refuse to repent. Then, and only then can they be disfellowshipped. Once they repent, they are encouraged to submit a request for reinstatement. Paul made this clear at: (2 Corinthians 2:5-8) 5 Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of you to an extent—not to be too harsh in what I say. 6 This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man; 7 now you should instead kindly forgive and comfort him, so that he may not be overwhelmed by excessive sadness. 8 I therefore exhort you to confirm your love for him.
Being imperfect humans however many abuse God's law on this which will likely lead to God dealing with it. But when practiced the way God intended it, it is very loving on His part Glory.
Nothing against you personally, but just showing the self given (not God given) authority the Watch Tower Society holds over it's members from the time of Charles Taze Russell whom in 1872 founded this religion in Pittsburgh, PA. Just like a few other religions they claim to be only the true religion. Yet they do not believe in the Trinity/Deity, believe Jesus was a created being. They believe the Holy Spirit is not a separate entity, but is simply a force, the method by which God interacts with the world.
The JW reject the traditional symbol of Christianity, the cross, as being of pagan origin. They translate the Greek word from the Christian Scriptures "stauros" as "torture stake", and believe that Jesus was crucified on a single upright wooden stake with no crossbeam. They view the cross as an Idol and wearing or displaying one is considered idol worship. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to celebrate Christmas, birthdays, Easter, Thanksgiving, or any other holidays, claiming they all have pagan roots.
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures published by the Watch Tower Bible and Tracts Society that was first released in 1950 with the complete works in 1961 as they deceive others by adding one single word that changes the whole meaning of one single verse.
Anyway, this should be enough to know about the JW and how to witness to them by understanding that of what they believe.
Once again, this in no way is coming against you and the beliefs of the JW, but to help educate others in how to witness to them.