Cigarette Smoking Christians

[jasoncran]

The truth of the matter is simple.

No one should ever be allowed to do anything I dont like

lol. not even this futurist.


wait go obama.

 

[cakecutie09]

Do we not all struggle with sin as Christians? I find it ironic how were all so quick to judge "big" sins. A nonsmoker has no idea how difficult it is to quit smoking. Its an addiction, it controls your mind and thoughts. I myself fell into smoking before i became a Christian. I decided to quit because of the stigma of other christians so quickly to condemn me. I am not perfect, i think we all should start being a whole lot less judgemental and start praying more for our fellow brothers and sisters in christ.

 

[pjt]

Do we not all struggle with sin as Christians? I find it ironic how were all so quick to judge "big" sins. A nonsmoker has no idea how difficult it is to quit smoking. Its an addiction, it controls your mind and thoughts. I myself fell into smoking before i became a Christian. I decided to quit because of the stigma of other christians so quickly to condemn me. I am not perfect, i think we all should start being a whole lot less judgemental and start praying more for our fellow brothers and sisters in christ.

And this is the sad and unfortunate thing. You are having to quit to somehow be accepted into the Body. If you quit, it should be for your own personal health, finances, or to please God. You should not have to quit to escape the scorn and lack of acceptance of other Christians. If you are trying to quit, then it is the responsibility of the Body to pray and encourage you as you struggle to overcome this habit/addiction. It is our duty as brothers and sisters in Christ to help carry each others burdens not look down on each other until we decide someone is perfect enough to join us.

I am really sorry you have had this experience, and you are right that every single Christian has something we have struggled with. No one has come to Jesus clean. We`ve all had to come to Him dirty and needed Him to clean us. May you find the encouragement, acceptance, and support you need in your brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Drew]

The truth of the matter is simple.

No one should ever be allowed to do anything I dont like

I disagree with what I see as your implication that those of us who see smoking as "sin" are really just labelling it as such because we "don't like it". If this is indeed your point, then by all means please do engage the actual arguments that have been made.

 

[Drew]

Do we not all struggle with sin as Christians? I find it ironic how were all so quick to judge "big" sins. A nonsmoker has no idea how difficult it is to quit smoking. Its an addiction, it controls your mind and thoughts. I myself fell into smoking before i became a Christian. I decided to quit because of the stigma of other christians so quickly to condemn me. I am not perfect, i think we all should start being a whole lot less judgemental and start praying more for our fellow brothers and sisters in christ.

Well some of us who think smoking is sin are not being judgemental at all. Perhaps some people are "judgemental" against smokers, but not all of us who see it as sin are that way.

As has been repeatedly pointed out: the fact that it is an addiction does not make it "unsinful".

 

[Hitch]

I disagree with what I see as your implication that those of us who see smoking as "sin" are really just labelling it as such because we "don't like it". If this is indeed your point, then by all means please do engage the actual arguments that have been made.

OK Drew ,but since its your cause, I need to know some things about you so I can forumulate a proper response.

Do you use elvators?

Do you consume more than your proper allowance of red meat per week?

Do you live in an urban area?

Do you consume too much refined sugar?

Do you consume too much refined flour?

Do you consume too many potatoes?

Do you spend too much time sitting? (say like when you're at your computer? )

Do you use a cell phone?

Do you wiegh more than you did your final year of High School?

Do you expend at least two hours per day in vigorous exercise?

Do you track your consumption of dietary fiber?




What are some other additions/corrections you think God's law needs?

 

[Pizzaguy]

Do you use elevators? Elevators are sinful now? :o Is this because they prove that the earth is not flat?

Do you consume more than your proper allowance of red meat per week? Who's "proper allowance" are you going to use to judge this? (The opinions vary greatly).

Do you live in an urban area? Is that a sin now, too?

Do you consume too much refined sugar? How much is too much and who is to say that refined sugar is sinful in moderate amounts?

Do you consume too much refined flour? Ditto above.

Do you consume too many potatoes? Never heard of "too many potatoes".

Do you spend too much time sitting? (say like when you're at your computer? ) If he exercises, and he has already made the case that he does, then the answer is no.

Do you use a cell phone? I am on the fence here, while I don't use mine close to my head much, .6 of a watt of 1.9 gHz RF does not scare me much.

Do you wiegh more than you did your final year of High School? I think he's already made the case that he does not.

Do you expend at least two hours per day in vigorous exercise? No doctor would recommend that - that is over doing it - supposedly.

Do you track your consumption of dietary fiber? I think he's already made the case that he does.

What are some other additions/corrections you think God's law needs? I think that remark is nasty enough to be a violation of the TOS.

 

[Hitch]

How much is too much and who is to say that refined sugar is sinful in moderate amounts?


Interesting concept.

 

[Drew]

OK Drew ,but since its your cause, I need to know some things about you so I can forumulate a proper response.

Do you use elvators?

Sometimes - and yes I would agree it is "sin" to use an elevator if you need the exercise (which I don't by the way - I get more than enough exercize) or are simply being lazy (sometimes the case for me).

Do you consume more than your proper allowance of red meat per week?

Absolutely not - I eat red meat at most twice a month.

Do you live in an urban area?

Yes.

Do you consume too much refined sugar?

My refined sugar intake is exceedingly low, if not zero.

Do you consume too much refined flour?

My refined sugar flour is exceedingly low, if not zero.

Do you consume too many potatoes?

I never eat potatoes.

Do you spend too much time sitting? (say like when you're at your computer? )

I spend a fair bit of time sitting, but I am aware of the health problems with that and am taking steps to try to work in a standing position. And no, I am not making this up - I have experimented with working while standing, but have gone back to the chair.

Do you use a cell phone?

Rarely, and always using the speaker to reduce radiation to the head.

Do you wiegh more than you did your final year of High School?

Possibly, but I am certainly not overweight. I am 5' 11" and weigh 165 pounds.

Do you expend at least two hours per day in vigorous exercise?

Not quite - but I would say that I consistently exercise vigorously at least one hour each and every day in the winter and 1.5 hours each and every day in spring, summer, and fall.

Do you track your consumption of dietary fiber?

Yes, and I eat way more than the average North American, and am aiming for 50 grams per day.

Now this may sound snotty, but, as you can see, I "walk the walk" - no reasonable person could say that I am hypocritical in respect to matters of health. Now, to be fair, I am not as "successful" in some other areas of life, but in respect to matters of health, I will quote Paul and suggest that I am, for all intents and purposes, "blameless".

What are some other additions/corrections you think God's law needs?

Not a good argument. There are plenty of things that are not explicitly prohibited in "God's law" that are indeed clearly sinful.

 

[Pizzaguy]

I eat red meat at most twice a month.

My refined sugar intake is exceedingly low, if not zero.

My refined sugar flour is exceedingly low, if not zero.

I never eat potatoes.

You aren't even living.

 

[Drew]

You aren't even living.

I know what you mean - my life would be more immediately enjoyable if I were to give up my strict dietary restrictions. However, I am more concerned with staying healthy in the longer run.

 

[Drew]

Correction: While I am aiming for zero potato intake, I will confess that, over the last 3 months, I have eaten 2 small packages of baked potato chips (the single serving size). Otherwise, no potatoes.

 

[handy]

Since when did red meat and potatoes become sinful.

Gee, I'm a cattle rancher in Idaho...wow, who knew I was walking on the dark side!

 

[Drew]

Since when did red meat and potatoes become sinful.

Gee, I'm a cattle rancher in Idaho...wow, who knew I was walking on the dark side!

The problem with potatoes is that they are hard on the pancreas and can be highly problematic for those with blood sugar issues (diabetics and pre-diabetics). For those people, eating potatoes will harm their health.

As for red meat, it is clear that many people eat too much, and this leads to health problems.

I am not saying that eating potatoes (or red meat) is always sinful for all people all the time. As you know, Hitch was trying to see if I was being hypocritical in calling smoking "sin". And the truth is that I am not.

 

[Chris]

One reoocuring theme on these christian forums and with Christians in general regarding something questionable in a Christians life is, if in doubt leave it out. I guess that could apply here too.

 

[Hitch]

Sometimes - and yes I would agree it is "sin" to use an elevator if you need the exercise (which I don't by the way - I get more than enough exercize) or are simply being lazy (sometimes the case for me).


Absolutely not - I eat red meat at most twice a month.


Yes.


My refined sugar intake is exceedingly low, if not zero.


My refined sugar flour is exceedingly low, if not zero.


I never eat potatoes.


I spend a fair bit of time sitting, but I am aware of the health problems with that and am taking steps to try to work in a standing position. And no, I am not making this up - I have experimented with working while standing, but have gone back to the chair.


Rarely, and always using the speaker to reduce radiation to the head.


Possibly, but I am certainly not overweight. I am 5' 11" and weigh 165 pounds.


Not quite - but I would say that I consistently exercise vigorously at least one hour each and every day in the winter and 1.5 hours each and every day in spring, summer, and fall.


Yes, and I eat way more than the average North American, and am aiming for 50 grams per day.

Now this may sound snotty, but, as you can see, I "walk the walk" - no reasonable person could say that I am hypocritical in respect to matters of health. Now, to be fair, I am not as "successful" in some other areas of life, but in respect to matters of health, I will quote Paul and suggest that I am, for all intents and purposes, "blameless".


Not a good argument. There are plenty of things that are not explicitly prohibited in "God's law" that are indeed clearly sinful.

Nothing I like better on a net forum than a straight direct resonse.

 

[jasoncran]

back up. drew.

you are concerned about microwave radiation from cell phones?what about the the electron gun in the cathode ray tubes in monitors and tvs from lore.

 

[pjt]

Do you use elvators?

Do you consume more than your proper allowance of red meat per week?

Do you live in an urban area?

Do you consume too much refined sugar?

Do you consume too much refined flour?

Do you consume too many potatoes?

Do you spend too much time sitting? (say like when you're at your computer? )

Do you use a cell phone?

Do you wiegh more than you did your final year of High School?

Do you expend at least two hours per day in vigorous exercise?

Do you track your consumption of dietary fiber?




What are some other additions/corrections you think God's law needs?

Well, sometimes if people get too caught up in counting fiber, calories, and obcessing over what they eat and how they exerise, this could be an addiction too or OCD. Perhaps in this case it is just as bad if not worse than smoking because instead of not being overly concerned about what goes in the body, the person is obcessing over their body which makes their own body an idol.

 

[Bonairos]

Drew (Post #112) -

Perhaps you only glanced at my response and did not take the time to read my words, my wording, or the context in which I relayed them. (Post #96) Maybe another look over will bring my position to light. Yet I will re-post some of my responses to your statements.

I am, frankly, suspicious of this kind of argument. You do realize, I trust, that someone can say "Look, I have never been 'told' by God that smoking is sin, and since its not prohibited in the Bible, it is not sin for me."

I stated:

“It is now an individual matter between the Lord and I. Though it may not be written as ‘sin’ in His word, it is now written in my heart that it is.â€

Perhaps you conclude one can be guilty (and stand before God) of sin without having any knowledge that he/she was in error.

I confess that I am deeply suspicious about the "personal" revelations line of thinking.

I stated:

“I also believe there are several means in which the revelation of God (to include His plan, purpose, and will) may come to an individual (i.e. the bible, intimate prayer, others, and creation itself to name a few). Nonetheless, it becomes a personal revelation, a personal knowledge. And never will any such ‘revelation’ go against who He has revealed Himself to be as declared in His written word.â€

You can use this "personal revelation" argument to effectively side-step having to deal with the very solid arguments against smoking.

Again I stated:

“And never will any such ‘revelation’ go against who He has revealed Himself to be as declared in His written word.â€

As I said above, anybody can claim any personal revelation.

Perhaps you have inaccurately substituted the word isolated for personal.

By using the "personal revelation" line, you can avoid having to engage with what I think are solid Biblical and scientific "facts".

I stated:

“I think it would be fair to say that we all agree that it is unhealthy, but clearly a sin?â€

I think you might wish to re-consider the nature of the kingdom of God. Despite the frankly heretical views of many here, the kingdom is already underway. And while the great consummation remains in the future, God is already accomplishing things related to Edenic restoration.

I tend to somewhat agree, how can I not? I am a new creation in Christ Jesus.

HOWEVER, this body? This earthly tent to be restored just as in the Garden of Eden? I am not saying, and never have said that we shouldn’t take care of ourselves physically.

But the fact remains, we may prolong death, even tame its’ sting; but death to this physical body will come and one day, we (those who are in Him) will be clothed incorruptible.


<O

Look at medicine - great strides have been accomplished at healing the human body. This is not something other than kingdom work - it is kingdom work. The medical community, whether it realizes it or not, is doing "kingdom of God" work.

I stated:

If it were possible for our physical (decaying, earthly) bodies to be restored to its’ “Edenic state, or something similar†(and by ‘Edenic’ I assume you mean as in the Garden of Eden) then I could see myself on board with you (based on your definition of sin). Yet we know that is not possible; hence a new body we look forward to.â€


I’ll end the same as I did in my last post:

“So to agree that smoking cigarettes is clearly a sin for every Christian is something I cannot do. I can accept that perhaps it has become one for you. But me? I haven’t received that revelation; and even if I did, I don’t think I could put that strong a personal conviction on someone else. Especially when notaddressed in His written word.â€



Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[Hitch]

“So to agree that smoking cigarettes is clearly a sin for every Christian is something I cannot do. I can accept that perhaps it has become one for you. But me? I haven’t received that revelation; and even if I did, I don’t think I could put that strong a personal conviction on someone else. Especially when not addressed in His written word.â€

Worth repeating, he said ,packing the evenings final bowl...