WOMEN PASTORS

[theLords]

Theo,

The family is God's plan. His plan is a great picture of Himself. The theme is continuous from Gen to The Revelation!

Mankind jumps in and want to change His plan all the time so sad.

My pitiful answer to you question is yes a pastor should be married and have kids.

A pastor should have one wife IMO that includes not a divorced one.

Christ has one bride Here again is the male female thing.

This totally removes the men of the Catholic Church from all positions of authority.

 

[Alabaster]

Handy Your post brings to mind Mother Teresa. Seems she was about knowing her place and living 'as unto the Lord' way more than most folks i see. Sheesh i ain't even Catholic.

As always i find much in your posts. Thanks for being part of the forum!

Oh yes, a NUN, who expressed complete doubt that there was a God and that she had any faith in Him at all. Yes, she knew her place, alright...

 

[farouk]

It's interesting that if a daughter runs up to her father and says:

"Daddy, I want to be an astronaut! a doctor! an artist! a scientist! a mathematician! the president! a soldier! an author!"

That father's reply would be nothing but encouragement.

"You can be whatever you set your mind to. With hard work you can do anything!"

But if that same little girl goes to her father and tells him she wants to do the most important work in the world, the story is much different.

"Daddy, I want to be a pastor and preach God's word and lead people to salvation!"

"Well, sweetheart, about that...."

That's not the Father God I know.

thelords:

I can understand your thinking here. It's just that this point of view doesn't seem to come clearly from the New Testament.

 

[Bonairos]

Boy Bonairos....and I thought Lewis knew how to stir things up...

Youda master!

HAHAHAHAHA! Just keeping it real my sister, just keeping it real! And yes I follow all the posts and do ponder all of them (between cigarettes that is)! HAHAHA! I'm only joking, I couldn't resist!


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

To all of you who believe that the verses in I Timothy and Titus indicate that women can't be pastors, my question to you is this: Do you, based on these same verses, also believe that single men, childless men, fathers of only one child, fathers of non-Christian children, fathers of "problem teenagers"and men who's children have criminal records are all excluded from holding the office of pastor?

Great question Theofilus. I actually spent two decades in a religion that did in fact follow to a tee the "mandates" of Timothy and Titus. The men who were pastor were called elders, but the same applied. they all were married (1 time only), had living wives, and had multiple kids who were still "in fellowship" with the church.

Just so I can understand what this forum means by pastor let me ask this. Does pastor equal preacher or are we talking about pastors in the sense of elders who lead a local congregation?

 

[Alabaster]

It's interesting that if a daughter runs up to her father and says:

"Daddy, I want to be an astronaut! a doctor! an artist! a scientist! a mathematician! the president! a soldier! an author!"

That father's reply would be nothing but encouragement.

"You can be whatever you set your mind to. With hard work you can do anything!"

But if that same little girl goes to her father and tells him she wants to do the most important work in the world, the story is much different.

"Daddy, I want to be a pastor and preach God's word and lead people to salvation!"

"Well, sweetheart, about that...."

That's not the Father God I know.

 

[farouk]

I guess the issue is wanting to believe what one wants to believe.

Or actually following New Testament practice.

I guess I should bow out of this thread.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Women such as Phoebe and Priscilla in the New Testament fulfilled valuable ministries. Clearly, they were very valuable ministries indeed.

Whether the text of Scripture itself actually demonstrates that they were public ministries is another matter.

Not to call out your post Farouk but I just wanted to point out how the word has been religiousized and made into something it wasn't intended to be. Why do religious folks use terms like MINISTRY as opposed to the term service. From a biblical stadpoint they mean EXACTLY the same thing, but one sounds more formal and 'holy'. Gimme a break!

 

[Bonairos]

Just so I can understand what this forum means by pastor let me ask this. Does pastor equal preacher or are we talking about pastors in the sense of elders who lead a local congregation?

Pastor in the sense of shepherding sheep (and all that one interprets it to mean)


Be blessed, Stay blessed!

 

[reba]

This totally removes the men of the Catholic Church from all positions of authority.

Speaking only for myself yup it sure does. My simplistic view of scripture is just that simple. The Word says so i believe it.


I see here now you have answered the PM i sent so thanks!

 

[theLords]

thelords:

I can understand your thinking here. It's just that this point of view doesn't seem to come clearly from the New Testament.

Yes, exactly, it comes from the interpretation of men.

Here's the reason why:

Genesis 3:16 (KJV)
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

This curse has plagued and will continue to plague women because of the fall. It is only through Christ that the curse of sin has been broken. Yet, there is still sin in the world and until Christ's return it will remain.

Women have been pinning for the love, affection, attention, approval, (etc.) of men since Eve. Men have done nothing but oppress, suppress, victimize, demean, and make women inferior. This is the nature of sin, because it is the nature of the evil one. This is all because of the curse that came with the fall.

But this is what Jesus says to all who desire to be great (above another):

Matthew 20:25-28 (NIV)
Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave--just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

 

[Alabaster]

Yes, exactly, it come from the interpretation of men.

Here's the reason why:

Genesis 3:16 (KJV)
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

This curse has plagued and will continue to plague women because of the fall. It is only through Christ that the curse of sin has been broken. Yet, there is still sin in the world and until Christ's return it will remain.

Women have been pinning for the love, affection, attention, approval, (etc.) since Eve. Men have down nothing but oppress, suppress, victimize, demean, and make women inferior. This is the nature of sin, because it is the nature of the evil one. This is all because of the curse that came with the fall.

But this is what the Jesus says to all who desire to be great (above another):

Matthew 20:25-28 (NIV)
Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave--just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

 

[handy]

Originally Posted by handy

I believe that God is both a sexist and a bigot, but I would disagree that either of these things are necessarily sinful.

Excuse me while I faint.

Sorry 'bout that...glad you've recovered! :smt056

I was using the terms "sexist" and "bigot" in the sense that they are understood in our overtly "politically correct" world...that if there is any kind of distinction made between a man and a woman...or between an overseer and a lay-person...why that's "sexism" or "bigotry".

Naturally, I agree with you that the texts you provide shows that God is neither a true sexist or a true bigot....but you have to admit, He is awfully politically INcorrect. ...and that's a good thing.


...to Bonairos,

 

[reba]

It's interesting that if a daughter runs up to her father and says:

"Daddy, I want to be an astronaut! a doctor! an artist! a scientist! a mathematician! the president! a soldier! an author!"

That father's reply would be nothing but encouragement.

"You can be whatever you set your mind to. With hard work you can do anything!"

But if that same little girl goes to her father and tells him she wants to do the most important work in the world, the story is much different.

"Daddy, I want to be a pastor and preach God's word and lead people to salvation!"

"Well, sweetheart, about that...."

That's not the Father God I know.

Just my thoughts and they may come from being 60+ ... A young women brought up in Scripture would already know and therefor not ask.


Looking around i think the church could use some of this....


Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

 

[handy]

Yes, exactly, it comes from the interpretation of men.

Here's the reason why:

Genesis 3:16 (KJV)
To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

This curse has plagued and will continue to plague women because of the fall. It is only through Christ that the curse of sin has been broken. Yet, there is still sin in the world and until Christ's return it will remain.

Women have been pinning for the love, affection, attention, approval, (etc.) of men since Eve. Men have done nothing but oppress, suppress, victimize, demean, and make women inferior. This is the nature of sin, because it is the nature of the evil one. This is all because of the curse that came with the fall.

But this is what Jesus says to all who desire to be great (above another):

Matthew 20:25-28 (NIV)
Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave--just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Another thing that I think we should remember is that Satan truly has it in for women...really and truly, he does, comes from the curse when God stated that He would put enmity between him and the woman.

Oh, he hates women with a passion and whenever he can twist the God-given love of man for woman...or thwart the God-given desires and abilities of women...he will. The Church, sadly, has a poor track record of defending women from the fiery darts of Satan.

 

[theLords]

Just my thoughts and they may come from being 60+ ... A young women brought up in Scripture would already know and therefor not ask.


Looking around i think the church could use some of this....


Tit 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Well, how much Scripture does the common 4 year old know? She knows nothing except that Daddy God loves her very much and has adopted her from a cruel and malicious world.

To me this is saying, by the time she grows up the Bible is used to crush her dreams.

This is not the heart of God. The heart of God is that "no one should perish."

Maybe, this cultural Man dominates Women mentality is the reason "the workers are so few."

I respect the thoughts and wisdom of my elders, and seek counsel from them because they know their stuff.

But we also have to remember it was the older generation of Israelites that held back Israel from walking into the promised land. They had 400 years of slavery and it was deeply ingrained into their minds. The children of the slaves born free and not in captivity were the ones who were able to rise up and enter the promised land as the Lord commanded.

The young generation needs the older generation and the older generation needs the younger generation.

 

[theLords]

Another thing that I think we should remember is that Satan truly has it in for women...really and truly, he does, comes from the curse when God stated that He would put enmity between him and the woman.

Oh, he hates women with a passion and whenever he can twist the God-given love of man for woman...or thwart the God-given desires and abilities of women...he will. The Church, sadly, has a poor track record of defending women from the fiery darts of Satan.

This is very, very important! What would the world look like without women? What would men grow to be without a mother's loving touch? Her unabashed tenderness and affection? To oppress women is to oppress love. Women have an uncanny ability to love with their full hearts, and this love is what Satan is targeting and trying to suppress.

There's a reason the Bible calls husbands to "love their wives."

 

[reba]

This is very, very important! What would the world look like without women? What would men grow to be without a mother's loving touch? Her unabashed tenderness and affection? To oppress women is to oppress love. Women have an uncanny ability to love with their full hearts, and this love is what Satan is targeting and trying to suppress.

There's a reason the Bible calls husbands to "love their wives."

1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[jasoncran]

This is very, very important! What would the world look like without women? What would men grow to be without a mother's loving touch? Her unabashed tenderness and affection? To oppress women is to oppress love. Women have an uncanny ability to love with their full hearts, and this love is what Satan is targeting and trying to suppress.

There's a reason the Bible calls husbands to "love their wives."

i find it insulting that some would dare to call me a bigot over my christian views when these same politicall correct defenders havent a clue of the sacrifice i make for my wife. honeslty most of these types would have left her a long time ago. marriage is a sacrifiece OF LOVE and HONOR for the spouse . MEN ought not forget that.

 

[Alabaster]

Sorry 'bout that...glad you've recovered! :smt056

I was using the terms "sexist" and "bigot" in the sense that they are understood in our overtly "politically correct" world...that if there is any kind of distinction made between a man and a woman...or between an overseer and a lay-person...why that's "sexism" or "bigotry".

Naturally, I agree with you that the texts you provide shows that God is neither a true sexist or a true bigot....but you have to admit, He is awfully politically INcorrect. ...and that's a good thing.


...to Bonairos,

I think!