Is Yahweh and Allah one?

[reba]

actually because YHWH means this God is whom you see when you take your first breath and the last breath.

That is really cool

im now forced in such a state.

this lost me...

 

[jasoncran]

in part because of said past deployment and a memorial and sadness that i thought i could handle this asthma has taken me full force. theres more to this.

but i wont go there as you what i will face soon.

 

[reba]

Jason ups and downs we have, never loose hold of the fact, you are a child of the King not just a King. He is the KING of Kings!

 

[jasoncran]

yes i understand that if i could get this asthma to end it would be nice.

 

[Free]

The sovereign, independent and intrinsic nature of God does not depend on those who do or do not recognize Him! Your view (and that of others) makes the nature of God dependent upon those who worship Him and calls into question the veracity of the apostles who told us who God is!

The only contradiction I see here is that you - who claim to be Christian - do not recognize the uniqueness of the gospel as it relates to the oneness of the Father and Christ!

God's nature is not subject to the vagaries of human doctrine!

I really don't know what you are saying here but it is clear enough that aren't following what I am saying and presume far too much about my position.

Please point me to the post where I wrote I believed that the Jews worship God.

When I asked: "is the Christian God the same God of Judaism?"

You replied with: "Yes. Christianity arose from Judaism."

They have their own ideas about who God is (just as Muslims do), but Christ's coming showed us the true nature of God. It's what the books of John and Romans are all about, which is why most new Christians are told to start reading the Bible there!

Here is one significant error in reasoning that is continually being made by several in this thread. Regardless of "their own ideas" and what has been revealed through Christ, it does not logically follow that they worship a different God. Christianity came from Judaism; Jesus was a Jew who worshiped the same God as the rest of the Jews and taught his followers to do likewise. The God of Christianity is the God of Judaism, who is YHWH. Just because Jews reject the fuller revelation of Jesus as the Messiah, God in human flesh, God's Son, does not mean that they worship a different God.

The proper response - Christian or otherwise - to murderous dogs who would threaten to kill innocent men, women, and children is to take them down. Period. I stand by what I wrote then and now.

Jesus and Paul clearly disagree with you. You have to deal with what Scripture states.

One more point on this issue:

It does not logically follow that just because Jews and Muslims deny the Son that the God one claims to worship is, therefore, the same God the other claims to worship. The intrinsic nature of God Himself is that which defines God - not those who deny His Son.

No one is making that argument.

If Hindus said Shiva were the God of the Old Testament, on the grounds that they, too, deny the Son, should we believe them?

No, of course not.

 

[Free]

No i do not agree.... God is Who He is... We are not going to change God into what we want...He has stated He is a jealous God...
The Christian God has a Son to reject the Son is to reject the Father (He says so) To then say we worship the same God is to deny Christ. It is simple and complex at the same time. One can not turn God away from the Son. Doing so in our minds changes Who He is, in only our minds.

As I stated above, rejecting the Sonship of Jesus which results in rejecting the Father, does not mean that there are two different Gods being talked about. To say that the Christian God is not the God of Judaism, is to say that the God of the OT is not the God of the NT. But that clearly is not the case.

 

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow
If Hindus said Shiva were the God of the Old Testament, on the grounds that they, too, deny the Son, should we believe them?

No, of course not.

And yet that's EXACTLY what you expect us to believe about Islam.

 

[Free]

And yet that's EXACTLY what you expect us to believe about Islam.

Oh come on, this isn't that difficult. Put some thought into it.

 

[reba]

As I stated above, rejecting the Sonship of Jesus which results in rejecting the Father, does not mean that there are two different Gods being talked about. To say that the Christian God is not the God of Judaism, is to say that the God of the OT is not the God of the NT. But that clearly is not the case.

I believe you see this as discussion of the words. I see it as a discussion of the essences of God.

 

[Stormcrow]

Oh come on, this isn't that difficult. Put some thought into it.

I have. We have reached an impasse. I have no desire to get banned by a moderator for suggesting what I really think of your position and the manner in which you have made this personal. Therefore, I leave the field to you.

 

[Free]

I have. We have reached an impasse. I have no desire to get banned by a moderator for suggesting what I really think of your position and the manner in which you have made this personal. Therefore, I leave the field to you.

Firstly, I have not made it personal. Secondly, you know very little of my position since most of my time has been trying to show errors in reasoning. There does seem to be a lot of presumption regarding my position, which is unfortunate but not surprising.

 

[Mike]

Free, perhaps an impasse has arrived, and you should just state what your full position is. I believe I know what it is. If I'm correct, we're in agreement, and I believe others will be in more agreement than they think. Obviously, it's not quite as simple to dicifer your point as you believe it is.

 

[Fedusenko]

I believe you see this as discussion of the words. I see it as a discussion of the essences of God.

When I started this thread, it was both. There are facts and there are characters that I believe encompass who and what the Christian god is. We can use Harry Potter as an example (who is not God in any possible way).

HP has a scar on his forehead. He is a mudblood? From the books I read he is also fairly compassionate and good natured. He also doesn't like that gangly blonde kid. If you were to show me someone who did not display those qualities and say that he is Harry Potter then I would likely not believe you.

No scar? not him. Not good natured? not him. He likes that drab over acting toe-head? not HP.

I believe that we can do the same for YHWH. It is our duty to come when the master calls, thus we must know His voice.

 

[Stan53]

This is a question that has begged answer for me. There are many superfluous parallels between the two. I have picked up the Koran to find the character of Allah and there are many good things said in it. I think I found my answer.

Just like the Jesus of the Mormons is NOT the same Jesus that the NT teaches us about, the God of the Muslims is NOT the same God as the God of the OT.

 

[Stormcrow]

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades. Revelation 1:17-18 (ESV)

"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me. Isaiah 44:6 (NASB)

"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last. "Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together. Isaiah 48:12-13 (NASB)

The Lord God of the Old Testament is the Lord God of the New: Jesus Christ is Lord! And to suggest that He is Allah - the "god" of Islam - is blasphemy. Period.

 

[Sinthesis]

Just like the Jesus of the Mormons is NOT the same Jesus that the NT teaches us about, the God of the Muslims is NOT the same God as the God of the OT.

Of course that doesn't mean that Mormons have created another Jesus, but only that they have created a false idea of Jesus. They'll be standing before Jesus in fig leaf aprons and magic underwear with all their 'good works', yet not know who He is.

Islam is similar in that it teaches a false idea of God. Now consider Nineveh in the time of Jonah. Clearly Nineveh was not Israel/Jewish, yet they were witnessed to by God through Jonah despite and because of their wickedness. They believed the warning and repented even though they could not "discern between their right hand and their left hand"; which means they could not actually know what behavior God wanted of them. Why? Because just like those trapped in Islam, the people of Nineveh had a false idea of God. They did not know God, yet the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob knew them.


*Plus they had cows

 

[Stan53]

Of course that doesn't mean that Mormons have created another Jesus, but only that they have created a false idea of Jesus. They'll be standing before Jesus in fig leaf aprons and magic underwear with all their 'good works', yet not know who He is.

Islam is similar in that it teaches a false idea of God. Now consider Nineveh in the time of Jonah. Clearly Nineveh was not Israel/Jewish, yet they were witnessed to by God through Jonah despite and because of their wickedness. They believed the warning and repented even though they could not "discern between their right hand and their left hand"; which means they could not actually know what behavior God wanted of them. Why? Because just like those trapped in Islam, the people of Nineveh had a false idea of God. They did not know God, yet the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob knew them.


*Plus they had cows

Paul warns in 2 Cor 11:4; For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

The Mormons preach ALL three things, as do the Muslims.

 

[Sinthesis]

Paul warns in 2 Cor 11:4; For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

The Mormons preach ALL three things, as do the Muslims.

Yes, but should we smite them or witness to them the same gospel that Paul did?

 

[Stan53]

Yes, but should we smite them or witness to them the same gospel that Paul did?

No of course not...they should be witnessed to as ALL unbelievers should be. We just need to understand exactly WHO they worship, to be able to show them who they really SHOULD be worshipping.

 

[cupid dave]

As I stated above, rejecting the Sonship of Jesus which results in rejecting the Father, does not mean that there are two different Gods being talked about. To say that the Christian God is not the God of Judaism, is to say that the God of the OT is not the God of the NT. But that clearly is not the case.

Actually, the Jews and the Muslims do worship the same god which they both invent from their interpretation of scripture.

The Koran is the written understanding of the Bible, AKA, the muslim interpretation of scripture.
The Talmud is essentially the Jewish written interpretation of scripture.

Both make no mention nor note of the fact that New Testament scripture exposes Christ as the Elijah who returned as promised in 32AD.







They both did the same things and same miracles, which was, traditionally,supposed to identify Elijah when would come back.
Hence Elijah was immortal, a son of God.



Both Elijah and Jesus raised the dead.

Both Elijah and Jesus were immortal.

Both Elijah and Jesus disappeared from the foot of amountain.

Both Elijah and Jesus ascended into Heaven beforewitnesses.

Both Elijah and Jesus troubled Israel.

Both Elijah and Jesus were hunted down by the Jewishauthorities.

Both Elijah and Jesus hid in a cave/tomb.

Both Elijah and Jesus pondered in the wilderness 40days.

Both Elijah and Jesus walked on the water.

Both wrote letters to people on Earth after they hadascended.

Both appointed a successor, Elisha by Elijah, and Peter,by Christ.

Both were hunted by the Jewish authorities.

Both gave a successor the power to raise the dead.

Both gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak toone, the keys to the other.

Both asked that the this "cup" be taken fromthem.

Both had miraculous births.

Both multiplied the meal for many people they feed inthe crowd.

Both destroyed the pagan worshippers and priests, oneBaal, the other, the Pantheon of Rome.

Both were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha inthe former and Peter, in the latter.