This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world...

[Stormcrow]

i cant see a national isreal being judged for the sin their ancestors did

Christ's own words are pretty explicit:

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.
33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,
35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
​

Lament over Jerusalem​

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!
38 See, your house is left to you desolate. Matt 23:29-38 (ESV)

​

Remember what God said in the Law:

18 The Lord is slow to wrath and great in mercy, overlooking wrongdoing and evil, and will not let wrongdoers go free; sending punishment on children for the sins of their fathers, to the third and fourth generation. Num 14:18 (BBE)

6See, it is recorded before me, says the Lord: I will not keep back my hand, till I have sent punishment,
7 For their sins and the sins of their fathers, who were burning perfumes on the mountains, and saying evil things against me on the hills: so I will take the measure of their sins, and will send the punishment for them into their breast. Isaiah 65:6-7 (BBE)

Not one letter of the Law passed away until all things were fulfilled. The last thing to be fulfilled was Israel's final judgment, which they brought upon themselves for rejecting Messiah.

 

[Stormcrow]

Spiritual defilement on the other.

. How do you flee to the Judean hills - which is recommended in both passages - from "spiritual defilement"???

The truth of these matters shows Futurism to be the fraud that it is.

 

[Hitch]

. How do you flee to the Judean hills - which is recommended in both passages - from "spiritual defilement"???

The truth of these matters shows Futurism to be the fraud that it is.

Im still wonder how the guy in Nova Scotia is going to get to the hills of Judah soon enough to do any good.

 

[JLB]

. How do you flee to the Judean hills - which is recommended in both passages - from "spiritual defilement"???

The truth of these matters shows Futurism to be the fraud that it is.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Are you saying this event happened in 70 AD?


JLB

 

[jasoncran]

Christ's own words are pretty explicit:

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’
31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.
33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,
35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.
36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.​

Lament over Jerusalem


37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!​

38 See, your house is left to you desolate. Matt 23:29-38 (ESV)​

Remember what God said in the Law:

18 The Lord is slow to wrath and great in mercy, overlooking wrongdoing and evil, and will not let wrongdoers go free; sending punishment on children for the sins of their fathers, to the third and fourth generation. Num 14:18 (BBE)

6See, it is recorded before me, says the Lord: I will not keep back my hand, till I have sent punishment,
7 For their sins and the sins of their fathers, who were burning perfumes on the mountains, and saying evil things against me on the hills: so I will take the measure of their sins, and will send the punishment for them into their breast. Isaiah 65:6-7 (BBE)

Not one letter of the Law passed away until all things were fulfilled. The last thing to be fulfilled was Israel's final judgment, which they brought upon themselves for rejecting Messiah.

off today. then yes, but today no.

sorry i thought you got that., the jews of today didnt partake in the killing of christians, i dont recall any isreali sanctioned by the knesset to kill a christian.

 

[n2thelight]

Originally Posted by n2thelight
Would I be correct in saying that we no longer need the the armour of God?

Stormcrow



Only if you think you're above temptation.

Temptation from whom?

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

If satan and his angels have already been thrown into the lake of fire as preterist claim,where does the temptation come from that you all would need this armour???

 

[n2thelight]

Asked this awhile back with no answer,so let me try again.....

I Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

Yes Christ is in our hearts,but can you tell me how you are in His kingdom,while you are still in the flesh???

Your flesh body is going to drive you to sin and that is its nature. When you are under the nature of your flesh body, it will not allow your inner man to control you. There is no way that flesh and blood can become part of the kingdom of God.

As long as you are in your flesh body, you simply cannot keep from breaking part of the laws of God. Your mind is incapable of retaining all the law, and applying it to every moment of your life. This is why we have repentance, and it is also why flesh and blood will not be here when Jesus Christ's kingdom is established here on earth for the Millennium kingdom.

Which brings me to my next question,why are we still in our flesh bodies???

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

We have already established that each of us have two bodies, one is of the flesh, and the other body is a spiritual body that is within our flesh body. The spiritual body is not made alive or freed from the flesh body until the flesh body is done away with.

Now since this change dosn't take place until we sleep(die)or when Christ returns at the last trump per Paul,why are we not changed ????

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Again, what happened to our change,it should have according to your(preterist) doctrine,happened already................

Next question,you say Christ has come,so where in scripture does it say Christ returns to heaven after His return to earth????

I see plenty of scriptures that say He stays,can you show ones that say He returned to heaven?????

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him."


Where are these people??????

 

[reba]

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[n2thelight]

Stormcrow

Does the gospel stop going forth because the Law is null and void? Of course not! The fact that the Law is null and void is the very reason the gospel can go forth completely unfettered by the legalistic rites and rituals associated with Temple worship!

What makes you think the law is null and void???Are the 10 commandments part of the law?Can you go out and kill and steal,with no consequences?Because that's exactly what it appears to me you are saying.....

Think you may need to study the differences between laws,ordinances and statues.........

 

[Stormcrow]

Temptation from whom?

Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. James 1:13-15 (NASB)

We are all our own, worst enemy when it comes to temptation.

 

[Stormcrow]

but can you tell me how you are in His kingdom,while you are still in the flesh???

Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:3-6 (NASB)

Were you "born of the Spirit" the moment you believed? If so, you are in His kingdom. Now.

 

[Stormcrow]

What makes you think the law is null and void???

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Galatians 3:23-27 (NASB)

When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)

The "obsolete" old covenant was ready to disappear at the time this was written almost 2,000 years ago. The old covenant was finally, violently, and irrevocably rescinded with the destruction of the Temple.

Can you go out and kill and steal,with no consequences? Because that's exactly what it appears to me you are saying.....

What an utterly absurd statement to make. Of course you can't! Biblical injunctions against murder and theft predate the Law of Moses. They are part of any just society's civil code.

Your failure to understand how the Law of Moses has been abrogated does not constitute a failure on the part of the apostles to explain it. I'm no rocket scientist and even I "get" it.

 

[Hammer]

Im still wonder how the guy in Nova Scotia is going to get to the hills of Judah soon enough to do any good.

Seeing how the armies were to be surrounding Judah, not Nova Scotia, I don't think the Nova Scotians need to worry about getting to the hills of Judah.

 

[Hitch]

Seeing how the armies were to be surrounding Judah, not Nova Scotia, I don't think the Nova Scotians need to worry about getting to the hills of Judah.

Come on now Ham if we're going to be good literalist the hills of Judah are the only escape.

 

[Stormcrow]

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Are you saying this event happened in 70 AD?

I'm not. Christ is. Look at the entire context of Matthew 24. And what was the last sign to occur before the events of the passage you cited above???

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:14 (NASB)

How many times must Paul's words be repeated before this sinks in???

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. Romans 1:8 (NASB)

But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD." Romans 10:18 (NASB)

...the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world...Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)

...the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven...Colossians 1:23 (NASB)

Unless Paul was completely mistaken, this same Paul - whose words you all believe are Holy Spirit inspired scripture - wrote that the gospel had been "proclaimed in all creation under heaven."

And if Paul is writing Holy Spirit-inspired scripture, how can he be wrong? And if He is right, then "the end" came after the gospel had been preached throughout the whole world, just as Jesus said when He said, "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NASB)

Now, you can either conform your thinking to the word of God or continue to advance a false doctrine that denigrates and demeans the word of Christ and His apostles. It's up to you.

 

[JLB]

Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:3-6 (NASB)

Were you "born of the Spirit" the moment you believed? If so, you are in His kingdom. Now.

8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8

We as of yet are not tangibly "with the Lord", though He will never leave us nor forsake us, this is by His Spirit. When He returns will will be changed and have our glorified immortal bodies, like Him and be with Him, wherever He is.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:50-53

and again -

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 1 Corinthians 15:19


JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8

We as of yet are not tangibly "with the Lord", though He will never leave us nor forsake us, this is by His Spirit. When He returns will will be changed and have our glorified immortal bodies, like Him and be with Him, wherever He is.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 1 Corinthians 15:50-53

and again -

16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


And thus we shall always be with the Lord.


If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 1 Corinthians 15:19


JLB

Apples and oranges. It's always apples and oranges with you.

 

[JLB]

Apples and oranges. It's always apples and oranges with you.

Typical No Scripture response from you!



How many times must I show you that you are misapplying as well as misunderstanding this scripture!!!!!

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world. Romans 1:8 (NASB)

Does this include America? No

Does this include South America? No

How many other countless nations does this NOT include.

Romans 10:16-18

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world."

Paul is quoting Isaiah. The context is about righteousness that is of faith.

You are misapplying [twisting] the scriptures to try and prove that the Gospel Message has preached in all the world by the AD 56, when Paul wrote this letter.

Most of the nations had not even been formed by then!

Your reasoning is far fetched at best.

The end is when Jesus Christ returns and the resurrection occurs.

Just that simple!


29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I guess Josephus and all the Jewish scribes forgot to mention seeing the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, back in 70 AD.:biglol


JLB

 

[Stormcrow]

...the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world...Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)

...the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven...Colossians 1:23 (NASB)

The Bible wasn't written in your lifetime and it isn't about you.

 

[JLB]

...the gospel which has come to you, just as in all the world...Colossians 1:5-6 (NASB)

...the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven...Colossians 1:23 (NASB)

The Bible wasn't written in your lifetime and it isn't about you.

Its about Jesus Christ and His Gospel is being preached throughout all the world as a witness, THEN the end will come.

Now answer me, where in Josephus writings does he talk about seeing The Lord coming in power and great glory.

Name ANY scribe or writer that has claimed to have personally witnessed Jesus Christ coming in the clouds with power and great glory.

The bible teaches - Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.


Where are those who have witnessed this event.

There are none, because this event is at the end of the age when He returns, as His disciples understood by their question to Him -

And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?


JLB