[_ Old Earth _] Christ is Truth, and Urim and Thummim is the ocular device that reveals it

[cupid dave]

I encourage learning. It is apparent that I am quite educated, a result of my own position that a wealth of knowledge is preferable to wild guesses.

Knowledge is never dangerous and ideas are always welcome until they go against the evidence to the point that the ideas reveal themselves to be baseless.


Your picture, for example, is not what you represent it to be. It comes from a manuscript written by a Christian (a Trinitarian Mystic with a Hebraist focus, to be more exact). It is not Jewish, nor is it 800 years old. It is also not in regard to thinking. It is a sketch in regard to the beard, not the brain.


BTW, i have never advised against discussing any topics. We can discuss any topic all day long to your heart's content. My beliefs are in no danger because we are not even discussing the bible at this point. We are discussing YOUR private invention, external to what the bible says or implies.

You are projecting, now. It isn't me who is being stubborn and repressive. You have a pet theory which you want to be true so you avoid, ignore or manipulate the facts so you don't have to acknowledge that your belief in this matter has no grounding in reality.

Discussing ideas is much different than worshipping them as gods.


I assume you obsess over making the perfect model for your ideas under the misquided perception that you are actually making the real thing. Again, I advise you that the work of men's hands neither see, hear, eat, smell or speak. This object is part of an illness and puts distance between you and God.

I disagree.

You are you absolutely "advised against discussing any topics" in inferring that this discussion of Urim and Thummim is in the realm of astrology and numerology.

My reference to the 800 year old resurrection of Jewish Kabbalah in the 12th century was correct.
The picture that I posted was in reference to that Kabbalah, and the implication that the Tree of Life has some mental significance is clear.


My advice to you is to be more open from the very beginning and set aside your self confidence in being "quite educated" so you may learn things new.





Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold,... (the golden spiritual insights of the irrepressible idea of psychic Consciousness emerging from scripture) ... tried in the fire... (of time),... that thou mayest be rich... (in continued church leadership); and (re-interpret upon) white (yet unwritten, new pages), raiment,... (of revised books of your evermore obvious misinterpretations), ...that thou mayest be clothed... (and protected in thine thinking with secularly acceptable scriptural confirmations), ...and that the shame... (as visited in Geocentricism does not reoccur concerning magical Creationism, impossible literal world-wide floods, genealogies of individuals who lived inordinately long personal life times, Sun and Moon and Stars absent from the Heavens while light shines through the Cosmos, etc) ...of thy nakedness... (of your unsupportable intuitive irrationalities) ...do not appear... (and confront you as happened before The Reformation); ...and anoint thine eyes...(awaken!)... with (the) eyesalve... (of reality!), ...that thou mayest see... (socio-psychologically).



My focus is on the reasonableness of the 12 jewels of the curious breastplate...

...taking the same order of placement as the tribes are arranged around the square hole where the Levites camped inside the Tabernacle:

I believe you are educated and smart enough to see that I have a point.
The 12 jewels have the 12 names of the tribes scribed on them.
The arrangement of the twelve tribes was "foursquare" around the Tabernacle.

That is certainly a concrete and objective obseravtion which is a first step in supporting my theory.


Then we read that Aaron, the father of the Levite priests, wore this curious foursquare breastplate on his heart, placing the center hole right on his own heart,...

...the cube analogy places the fifth, inside geometric, in the center of its own square orientation with the three triangular faces that represent the three tribes of the Levites.

 

[cupid dave]

I assume you obsess over making the perfect model for your ideas under the misquided perception that you are actually making the real thing. Again, I advise you that the work of men's hands neither see, hear, eat, smell or speak. This object is part of an illness and puts distance between you and God.

My assumption is that you are stuck in archaic theology of dead nmen who guessed at scrioture during the Middle Ages and who founded most of present churches with teology that is date to the 19-20th century.


Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold,... (the golden spiritual insights of the irrepressible idea of psychic Consciousness emerging from scripture) ... tried in the fire... (of time),... that thou mayest be rich... (in continued church leadership); and (re-interpret upon) white (yet unwritten, new pages), raiment,... (of revised books of your evermore obvious misinterpretations), ...that thou mayest be clothed... (and protected in thine thinking with secularly acceptable scriptural confirmations), ...and that the shame... (as visited in Geocentricism does not reoccur concerning magical Creationism, impossible literal world-wide floods, genealogies of individuals who lived inordinately long personal life times, Sun and Moon and Stars absent from the Heavens while light shines through the Cosmos, etc) ...of thy nakedness... (of your unsupportable intuitive irrationalities) ...do not appear... (and confront you as happened before The Reformation); ...and anoint thine eyes...(awaken!)... with (the) eyesalve... (of reality!), ...that thou mayest see... (socio-psychologically).

 

[Adam]

I disagree.

You are you absolutely "advised against discussing any topics" in inferring that this discussion of Urim and Thummim is in the realm of astrology and numerology.

I advised that it is a distraction from God. We can continue discussing that fact all day long.

My reference to the 800 year old resurrection of Jewish Kabbalah in the 12th century was correct.
The picture that I posted was in reference to that Kabbalah, and the implication that the Tree of Life has some mental significance is clear.

You falsely attributed that picture to the Jews and to 800 years ago, which was deceptive.

Jay Z makes references to the Illuminati. That doesn't mean he actually represents the Illuminati, nor should he be considered an authority.

My advice to you is to be more open from the very beginning and set aside your self confidence in being "quite educated" so you may learn things new.

Everything you have tried to "teach" has turned out to be wrong. Yet you still insist on teaching it. That is close minded.

My focus is on the reasonableness of the 12 jewels of the curious breastplate...


...taking the same order of placement as the tribes are arranged around the square hole where the Levites camped inside the Tabernacle:

Which you have given no valid reason on why either would be arranged as such.

I believe you are educated and smart enough to see that I have a point.
The 12 jewels have the 12 names of the tribes scribed on them.
The arrangement of the twelve tribes was "foursquare" around the Tabernacle.

That is certainly a concrete and objective obseravtion which is a first step in supporting my theory.

You can't get across the gap of "foursquare" to the arrangement you have decided on without making absolutely unsupported assumptions.

Then we read that Aaron, the father of the Levite priests, wore this curious foursquare breastplate on his heart, placing the center hole right on his own heart,...



...the cube analogy places the fifth, inside geometric, in the center of its own square orientation with the three triangular faces that represent the three tribes of the Levites.

Again, there is a major gap between "foursquare" and this cube you keep talking about.


Your assumptions are baseless. Being able to recognize this huge flaw in your claims is not indicative of closemindedness. It's being objective. Sorry you can't handle reality.

 

[Adam]

My assumption is that you are stuck in archaic theology of dead nmen who guessed at scrioture during the Middle Ages and who founded most of present churches with teology that is date to the 19-20th century.

Your inability to make a well reasoned and evidenced case is why your claims are rejected.

 

[cupid dave]

... you have given no valid reason on why either would be arranged as such.

You can't get across the gap of "foursquare" to the arrangement you have decided on without making absolutely unsupported assumptions.
Again, there is a major gap between "foursquare" and this cube you keep talking about.


Your assumptions are baseless. Being able to recognize this huge flaw in your claims is not indicative of closemindedness. It's being objective. Sorry you can't handle reality.

LOL

When we examine the order of arangement of the twelve tribes whose engraved names are also positioned on the foursquare breastplate, we see that the camp of the Tabernacle is the image of the settings of the 12 jewels on the breastplate with the implied square space in the open center.
Even the device of the oracle of the Urim and Thummim, set inside that square hole of the breastplate corresponds the oracle of the cube shaped Most holy Place or room in the center of the 12 tribes!
　
　
　

　
　
Num. 2:17 Then the tabernacle, (the tenting down in this dessert), of the congregation, (of Israel), shall set forward, (arranged in a square), with the camp of the Levites in the midst of the camp: as they encamp, so shall they set forward, every man in his place by their standards, (the emblematic flag of the tribe).
Num. 2:2 Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard, (the tribal flag), with the ensign (or heraldry) of their father's house: far off, (ringed) about the tabernacle of the congregation shall they pitch (in a square formation on the North, the East, the South, and the West, similar to the placement and arrangement of the jewels of the foursquared breastplate engraved with their names).
Num. 2:3 And on the east side toward the rising of the sun shall they of the standard (with the face of the Lion) of the camp of Judah pitch throughout their armies:
Num. 2:5 And those that do pitch next unto him shall be the tribe of Issachar: Num. 2:7 Then the tribe of Zebulun:
　
Num. 2:10 On the south side shall be the standard (with the emblem of the OX) of the camp of Reuben according to their armies:
Num. 2:12 And those which pitch by him shall be the tribe of Simeon: Num. 2:14 Then the tribe of Gad:
Num. 2:18 On the west side shall be (the emblem of the OX), the standard of the camp of Ephraim according to their armies:
Num. 2:20 And by him shall be the tribe of Manasseh: Num. 2:22 Then the tribe of Benjamin: Num. 2:24 All that were numbered of the camp of Ephraim, (which included Manasseh and Benjamin), were an hundred thousand and eight thousand and an hundred, throughout their armies. And they (three tribes) shall go forward in the third rank.
　
Num. 2:25 The standard (with the emblem of the Eagle) of the camp of Dan shall be on the north side by their armies:
Num. 2:27 And those that encamp by him shall be the tribe of Asher: Num. 2:29 Then the tribe of Naphtali:
　
We can all, cleary, see that the four (4) sets of three (3) stones correspond to the four (4) set of three tribes arranged around both the foursquare breastplate and the foursquare Tabernacle.
　
　

 

[Adam]

Your 12 tribes arrangement is also missing all the required evidence in order for you to assume the particular shape you claim.

When we take out all your forced additions we see no shape or pattern that would meet your claims. Any reference to a square is placed in parenthesis.... ie: YOU added what was not there!


And it is no matter even if the bible said they formed a square. You still cannot get from "foursquare" or "3x4" to "a combination of five stones, specifically tetrahedron and octohedron shapes, which, when combined form a cube. The cube is specifically the urim and thummim."



You don't change facts to fit theories. You change theories to fit facts.

There isn't anything you can do to fill the major gap in the evidence t support your guess. There is no valid reason to keep claiming something you have no evidence for.

 

[cupid dave]

Assuming that Oscam's Razor has made some connection between the curious way the 12 tribes foursquared the Tabernacle in Sinia, according to the Book of Numbers, and the proposed shape of a foursquared cunningly crafted breastplate which ordered a seemingly impossible setting of three (3) stones in four (4) rows such as to foursquare the geometry that arranged them together, let us examine the mystery of horned altars as opposed to a flat table or even one with a border around it to prevent things from falling off.
There seems to be little rational reasonfor foursquaring an altar of incense with the placement of those four horns at the corners, unless this is a clue to the geometry of a cube.

Remember the importance of the Cube in the Old Testament.
The place where the priest was to speak with god, directly, was a cube shaped room called the Most Holy Place.

And the Urim and Thummim is an oracle, too,... one that is used ALSO to speak directly to God.
The Horns are before the veil, which leads inside into the cube shaped Most Holy Place where the priest is to find the triade of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, ready to accept the sins of the Jews for cleansing.
But in the room with the horned altar of oncense, we may SMELL the connection between the priposed theological theory of Urim anf Thummim and the seven candles burning across from the show bread table with the Twelve loafs of bread, one for each tribe.

 

[Adam]

It is apparent that you don't understand Occam's Razor.

Occam's razor represents a trade-off between the simplest explanation and the one with the most explanatory power.

If two competing theories are equally explanative, we go with the simpler. If both are equally complex, we go with the one which explains more.




And again, you are turning "foursquare" into a complex multi-shaped, specifically tetrahedron or octohedron pattern. This is much more complex than necessary or implied and has no explanatory power.


Not to mention, none of these items are sukkot. Neither is a sukkah an oracle. The Jews would not be required of all these items if they all performed the same purpose.

Please stop blending the attributes of every topic. You remove their identity and make them meaningless.

 

[cupid dave]

Any reference to a square is placed in parenthesis.... in: YOU added what was not there!


And it is no matter even if the bible said they formed a square.

.

1) The grammatical purpose of parenthesis is to inform a reader that the comment or explanation inside is not part of the original statement, but an interjection by the person posting such a sentence.








2) ?
No matter...?

The theological theory being set forth here, requires that scripture be the fact-based source of discovering the geometry of the oracle called the Urim and Thummim from a study of the larger oracle, the Tabernacle and the curious and cunningly made artifacts of that oracle, such as the four horns of the Altar of Incense, the seven candles sticks, the 12 show bread loafs, and the veiled Most Holy cube shaped room.


That the square area circumscribed by the arrangement of the twelve (12) tribes around the Oracle of the Tabernacle is square.

It corresponds to the square geometry that appears when the breastplate is similarly arranged together support the picture below of the theorized Urim and Thummim, also subscribing a square area inside the 12 foundation walls of the cube, opened up and displayed as shown:

Notice that the center piece sits upon another hidden face, as if veiled from our sight until the priest enters in, and turns it upside down,...

[




...that hidden face is larger than the three others, and contains the Three Mother letters of Y, H, V which is the source of all twelve permutations of the four letters of God's name.





2) It does matter that a square area inside the 12 tribes was allocated to the levites.
The fact is important to this theological theory of Urim and Thummim.



That an inner square coincides with scripture, describing the Levite camp as square, support this attention to geometry as the basis for uncovering a theory of U&T:

It is an important observation, in comparing the 12 stones of the breastplate inscribing a square space, then the 12 tribes, (N,S,E,W), around the tabernacle with a square Levite area, and that square space formed by the foursquare arrangement of the Urim/Thummim 4 outer foundation walls (which are different geometrically, from the one plummet inside: Zech 4:10 ).




Zech 4:10 Who [with reason] despises the day of small things?
For these seven, (inside spaces of the Urim and Thummim), shall rejoice when they see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel.
[These seven] are the eyes of the Lord which run to and fro throughout the whole earth.

Th e hypothesis and corollary to this theory of U&T is that this the is one hidden face which the builders of the pyramid "forgot".

 

[Adam]

1) The grammatical purpose of parenthesis is to inform a reader that the comment or explanation inside is not part of the original statement, but an interjection by the person posting such a sentence.

Yes, an interjection. Not original to the text... ie: without authority.

2) ?
No matter...?

The theological theory being set forth here, requires that scripture be the fact-based source of discovering the geometry of the oracle called the Urim and Thummim from a study of the larger oracle, the Tabernacle and the curious and cunningly made artifacts of that oracle, such as the four horns of the Altar of Incense, the seven candles sticks, the 12 show bread loafs, and the veiled Most Holy cube shaped room.

all of which do not point to five pieces of tetrahedron/octohedron shapes that form a cube.

Your assumption, therefore, is NOT fact-based.

That the square area circumscribed by the arrangement of the twelve (12) tribes around the Oracle of the Tabernacle is square.

It corresponds to the square geometry that appears when the breastplate is similarly arranged together support the picture below of the theorized Urim and Thummim, also subscribing a square area inside the 12 foundation walls of the cube, opened up and displayed as shown:

not in scripture. If it were, you still cannot get to five tetrahedron/octohedron pieces.

Notice that the center piece sits upon another hidden face, as if veiled from our sight until the priest enters in, and turns it upside down,...



...that hidden face is larger than the three others, and contains the Three Mother letters of Y, H, V which is the source of all twelve permutations of the four letters of God's name.

Again, not scriptural. Not even kaballah. You are again taking random peices of mysticism and trying to glue them together to no avail.

2) It does matter that a square area inside the 12 tribes was allocated to the levites.
The fact is important to this theological theory of Urim and Thummim.

That is not a fact. We are going to have a difficult time communicating if you don't know the difference between facts and claims.

That an inner square coincides with scripture, describing the Levite camp as square, support this attention to geometry as the basis for uncovering a theory of U&T:

Scripture does not describe any camp as a square. Regardless, if it did, a camp shaped as a square has no indication of any reference to the urim and thummim.

It is an important observation, in comparing the 12 stones of the breastplate inscribing a square space, then the 12 tribes, (N,S,E,W), around the tabernacle with a square Levite area, and that square space formed by the foursquare arrangement of the Urim/Thummim 4 outer foundation walls (which are different geometrically, from the one plummet inside: Zech 4:10 ).

There is no such observation to be made. If there were such an instance, it still would not be important in terms of the Urim and thummim and certainly not relevant to the claim of tetrahedron/octohedron shapes or 5 pieces.

Zech 4:10 Who [with reason] despises the day of small things?
For these seven, (inside spaces of the Urim and Thummim), shall rejoice when they see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel.
[These seven] are the eyes of the Lord which run to and fro throughout the whole earth.

.

Please, just don't mess with scripture this way. You are disturbed.

 

[Adam]

Besides that, the shapes you indicate do not even form a cube when placed together.


Your whole hypothesis does not have one thing correct about it.

 

[Adam]

I thought you said you made this out of copper?

 

[cupid dave]

Not to mention, none of these items are sukkot.
Neither is a sukkah an oracle.
The Jews would not be required of all these items if they all performed the same purpose..

Great!!! You have a Jewish background.


Yes, the five part cube is Sukkah and symbolized by the Lulav/Etrog Sets

Closing up the cube and shaking it is the ritual which is exactly for the purpose of supporting this theological theory when it was to come up, as it g-finally has here and now.




Lulav/Etrog Sets
We have secured a source for the finest quality Etrog/Lulav sets from Eretz Yisrael, shipped direct to you a day or two before Sukkot for guaranteed freshness.

Sets include an etrog, lulav, willow branches, three myrtle leaves and a woven palm holder,....

 

[cupid dave]

I thought you said you made this out of copper?

?

I did.

 

[Adam]

Great!!! You have a Jewish background.


Yes, the five part cube is Sukkah and symbolized by the Lulav/Etrog Sets

Closing up the cube and shaking it is the ritual which is exactly for the purpose of supporting this theological theory when it was to come up, as it g-finally has here and now.




Lulav/Etrog Sets
We have secured a source for the finest quality Etrog/Lulav sets from Eretz Yisrael, shipped direct to you a day or two before Sukkot for guaranteed freshness.

Sets include an etrog, lulav, willow branches, three myrtle leaves and a woven palm holder,....

Sorry. You can't get from lulav and etrog rituals to 5 tetrahedrons that form a cube, either.

 

[Adam]

?

I did.

I wasn't aware that you can cut copper with scissors.

 

[cupid dave]

Besides that, the shapes you indicate do not even form a cube when placed together.


Your whole hypothesis does not have one thing correct about it.

?
Of course the five geometric pieces fit together to form a perfect cube.

Buckminister Fuller propose the exact same type of geometry in his book, his cube is pictured below in "Cosmography, the one thing that explains everything."

That amazing book, "Cosmography," was written purely based upon the Design Theory of Fuller without any reference or knowledge of this exposition into Urim and Thummim which I am bring to your attention.
Asfar as I can ascertain, Fuller knew nothing of the Urim and Thummim, and my work in Theology was totally separate and divorced from his work.

I was struck almost blind, as Paul had been, when I read that book, long after developing much of what I have told you here.
Fuller makes his case that the inside piece, the tetrahedron, is the key corner stone to explaining everything, which much of his book then tries to do.

I could not ask for more collateral support than for that genius to have independently developed my case for this urim and Thummim and conclude rightly, that this is the theory of everything.


Below is a copy of the cube from Buckminister Fuller's book which I captioned underneath as the diagram for the Most Holy cube shaped Place or room in the Temple:

 

[Adam]

Now we are getting somewhere.


Your idea did not come from scripture and has no relevance to the sukkah, apart that we are talking about cubes.

So your only link to these shapes is the cube, which is not featured in regard to the urim and thummim at all. You have no case.


But, while we are only the subject of Fuller, if you know anything about the subject at all outside of a picture that you find mystical, you are aware, then, that a cube can be divided up in an infinite number of ways, and the division of five is no more significant than this division:

In fact, the cube can be broken down into over 200 combinations of tetrahedron/octohedron variations.

Yes, what you are attempting IS fully divorced from Fuller. It is also fully divorced from scripture.

You are forcing these two subjects to arbitrarily overlap. They do not overlap.


There is no reason to associate the neatness of division of 3d objects with the urim and thummim.

 

[cupid dave]

I think Fuller was on the right course, and intuitively realized that there was something about the tetrahedron that can explain "everything", depending upon what he might have thought that "everything" meant.

But he did diagram the cube that is subtly described in the scriptures which explains everything about the inordinate repetitious use of numbers like 3, 7, 12, even 5.

I believe if you read this book you will learn little more than that Fuller was obsessed by the geometry we are discussing, and, that contrary to your statement above, the cube can be formed easily by these five geometric parts.
But when i read it, I was reassured that the urim and thummim had concrete science support for the claim the bible makes about this Urim and Thummim.
That both assert they are such oracles is no coincidence.

The two dimensional Breastplate described in the Old Testament appears again in the New Testament, but this time as the New Jerusalem, covered with the same stones and the same tribal names:

12 It had a massive and high wall with twelve [large] gates, and at the gates [there were stationed] twelve angels, and [on the gates] the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were written:
13 On the east side three gates, on the north side three gates, on the south side three gates, and on the west side three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation [stones], and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 And he who spoke to me had a golden measuring reed (rod) to measure the city and its gates and its wall.
16 The city lies in a square, its length being the same as its width. And he measured the city with his reed—12,000 stadia (about 1,500 miles); its length and width and height are the same.

 

[cupid dave]

Besides that, the shapes you indicate do not even form a cube when placed together.
Your whole hypothesis does not have one thing correct about it.

I doubt that for you, even seeing is believing...?