The Death Penalty

[jasoncran]

Try to keep track. The scenario I was asked to answer was this:



No mention of raping a girl.

The TOG​

fine, either way the results would be the SAME. inmates even the worst serial murders who didn't murder kids or rape any minor will do the deed for the government. im well shall I say in this line of work for the army. its what the full time correctional officers talk about. an inmate will find a way to to execute. kill or rape any child under 12 and they will all hate you and find a way to kill you.

 

[Gary]

fine, either way the results would be the SAME. inmates even the worst serial murders who didn't murder kids or rape any minor will do the deed for the government. im well shall I say in this line of work for the army. its what the full time correctional officers talk about. an inmate will find a way to to execute. kill or rape any child under 12 and they will all hate you and find a way to kill you.

That's not true in every case. It does happen from time to time, but they seldom put child molesters in with the general population.

 

[jasoncran]

That's not true in every case. It does happen from time to time, but they seldom put child molesters in with the general population.

they segregate them with the rapists. I have been offered a job with a facility one of three near each other that house these types of inmates. serial murders. sex offenders,and other violent offenders. some of them have been allowed to work outside in the civilian population. pride company. google that. that is worked on by those types of trustees. they have prisons that house general non violent, drug users and dealers only. others as I have stated and those for death row, and one for those that cant be controlled and have harmed officers without respect to offense. an immate that is in the shu, can see a doctor. they other inmates will observe and now where he is at as they to talk to each other. if they are child killer they are protected but if the shu is full they wont be in that area and will be sent elsewhere or the or in the highest level of protection possible, but if they are life they cant all be in there all the time.i can ask if I feel like it. I don't like bother those that know for simple debates. though It is revalant for job training for the troops.

 

[Gary]

they segregate them with the rapists. I have been offered a job with a facility one of three near each other that house these types of inmates. serial murders. sex offenders,and other violent offenders. some of them have been allowed to work outside in the civilian population. pride company. google that. that is worked on by those types of trustees. they have prisons that house general non violent, drug users and dealers only. others as I have stated and those for death row, and one for those that cant be controlled and have harmed officers without respect to offense. an immate that is in the shu, can see a doctor. they other inmates will observe and now where he is at as they to talk to each other. if they are child killer they are protected but if the shu is full they wont be in that area and will be sent elsewhere or the or in the highest level of protection possible, but if they are life they cant all be in there all the time.i can ask if I feel like it. I don't like bother those that know for simple debates. though It is revalant for job training for the troops.

My sister's a nurse and she's been working at a maximum security prison for over 5 years. I asked her about that once and she said it's never happened since she's been there.

I have a friend that works at a federal penitentiary and he says the same thing.

It's not as prevalent as what everyone is led to believe. Real life and TV are not the same.

 

[jasoncran]

My sister's a nurse and she's been working at a maximum security prison for over 5 years. I asked her about that once and she said it's never happened since she's been there.

I have a friend that works at a federal penitentiary and he says the same thing.

It's not as prevalent as what everyone is led to believe. Real life and TV are not the same.

I know that its not but it does happen. florida. florida is the the third largest penal system in the world. we are behind California. we don't have prisons. we have correctional facility. florida has one prison. now unless you want to call living in a four foot cell by four foot cell and not having a private shower unlike the others in minium security prisons. the one I have seen and been to has general pop, medium and heavy. florida max system houses the worst of the worst , that is the ONLY prison system. now then those deer inmates you think are worthy of life aren't really all that in the greatest of mental health from said confinement. if you are there for a crime. no visitation. no phone calls. mail only.unless its medical and legal or chaplain. that's it.you are watched by the guards when you shower , unless the facility has a shower in the cell for them. which I know that oci doesn't have.

so my point stand said inmate for the crime killing a girl will be in essence "dead" to his children. as the will not be able to see him. or talk to him. but write.his wife shall not be able to see him nor call.that is going to be could for a marriage. it may last in some cases but it would be difficult. some woman may divorce a man who did that even if they were a good father. I couldn't stay with a women who did that.i would leave.if I had kids who were fathered by me with her and they were over 18. they may visit her.but if they are under I would allow them to see her. if that is allowed but not in florida . solitary for protection for life doesn't mean you get visitation. they would have to put in there here.florida max prison doesn't have visitation.

I can ask about this one. sentence to life. I just googled him. he likely doesn't get visitors.

visitation isn't a right.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/inmates/visit.html#right

if rape and sex offender, good luck, its not likely. murder of a child? uhm yeah they aint seeing that child.
would you let your child near one of those? I wouldn't without really really being sure they weren't like that and that not without the protection of facility.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes...ing=&URL=0900-0999/0944/Sections/0944.09.html

 

[jasoncran]

TOG wrote
Suppose a single man rapes and kills a young girl and covers it up so well that he doesn't get caught until the police find some new evidence 10 years after he committed the crime. By that time, the man is married and has two children, who are 2 and 5 years old. The man has turned his life completely around and no longer uses drugs or alcohol and is good father and husband and a responsible, productive member of society. Should that man be executed, making his wife a widow and his children orphans?

he in this scenario marries a woman, this woman would have to be lied too in order for her to marry that man? why? because who in there right mind would marry a man that would spend life in jail that hasn't confessed to a crime that did do if caught? that is why I said if that was a woman I wouldn't be married. I would allow my kids to see her as she is. a murder and let them decide if hey wish to be in her life. I wouldn't.if this man repented truly he would tell the cops how he killed the child and confess and throw himself to the court either asking for mercy after telling the victims family the sad story of why he did it and begging for his life or saying I ask for no forgiveness but wanted you to know that I did take your child and to give you peace. since this wasn't mentioned I assume that this man isn't saved.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Wow! There is so much conversation going on here and so much avoidance of the issue. For the Christian to deal with this, emotion must be avoided and logic must be applied but only in accordance with God's Word to us. I allueded to this early on and one or two others have maintained it through out and still, so many of you refuse the counsel of God on the matter.

God said, way back in Genesis, that man is created in the image of God. And 5 or 6 chapters later He said, "if a man kill a man, kill him. I mentioned the lady that pick axed a man and his wife to death, here in Texas, that, in prison, found Salvation and none of you touched it. We put the needle in her arm and she awaits our arrival in Heaven, right now. Her Earthly debt is paid and she is our sister in Christ but she had a debt due thar has, in her case, been collected.

On this planet, there is a perfect example of what is required of the adults here that every one of us should have learned before we were 2 years old and it does rule over us to this day... or we are in rebellion and Hell bound.

When I was two and I disobeyed my mom or my dad thedy smacked the backs of the offending hand, inflicting discipline through pain. As I grew, so did punishment. My dad knew his son, very well, and he knew the importance of education. When I was a teen I loved discipline in school because I could handle the maximum of 21 swats and every time I received swats, my Rep. as One Bad Boy grew.

Not so at home! Dad knew he still needed to treat me as an infant to embarrass me but he also knew how to punish me so it hurt. He made me sit there, at the table, for up to an hour, discussing my offence. mentally screaming, HIT ME! The punishment MUST fit the crime and every one of us have one point of commonality that cannot ever be denied, we were, all of us, created by God, in God's image. If ay one of us kills the other we must be snuffed out or we are disobedient brats.

This entire issue is settled in the same manor as every other sin, we repent and "obey" the Father we claim for our own. The murderer, the rapist, the paedophile, the thief, every one of them can die in their sin or they can repent but, either way, they owe a debt!

So we arrive back at the beginning of the subject; Will you obey God? There is no room for emotion, there is no room for desire, we are called to obey! Those of us that jumped on our choppers and took off as the rockets were going off all around us, those of us that stood there loading the 105 shell into the breach, even though the mortors were exploding around us and those of us that poked our heads up and sighted the next shot, we understand obedience. You have no other option ad regardless of feelings, you obey or, in this case, you are placing yourself in danger of going to Hell.

This is a sin issue, it's simple, where is your God?

 

[agua.]

This entire issue is settled in the same manor as every other sin, we repent and "obey" the Father we claim for our own. The murderer, the rapist, the paedophile, the thief, every one of them can die in their sin or they can repent but, either way, they owe a debt!

Gday Bill,

This is interesting. Do you suggest we must be punished for every sin we have committed ? I understand we must be accountable to our national laws is this what you mean ?

2Co 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Psa 103:11-12 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; (12) as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

 

[jasoncran]

im also aware that in the modern age of justice. plenty of innocent men are wrongly sent, to the chair. money buys innocence and some are there because of politics.

 

[tandemcpl]

What happened to the forgiveness Jesus taught about?

During His Sermon on the Mount Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Matt. 5:43-48, ESV

And also the following conversation with Peter:

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven. Matt18:21-22, ESV

Be blessed.

Toby

 

[reba]

What happened to the forgiveness Jesus taught about?

During His Sermon on the Mount Jesus said, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Matt. 5:43-48, ESV

And also the following conversation with Peter:

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven. Matt18:21-22, ESV

Be blessed.

Toby

Unless you are willing to allow the childmolester/killer into your home unsupervised have you forgiven?

So often the story of the woman caught in adultery is brought up in a discussion of the death penalty.... It is brought up as a reason to not use the penalty.. Jesus used the fullness of the law....

Deu 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.


Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more

 

[th1b.taylor]

Gday Bill,

This is interesting. Do you suggest we must be punished for every sin we have committed ? I understand we must be accountable to our national laws is this what you mean ?

2Co 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Psa 103:11-12 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; (12) as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

In a manor of speaking, yes! There is a law of science that we love to push aside that is born out with complete readings of the scriptures; For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

These people committing these crimes/sins, some of them "claiming" Jesus as their Saviour, are not saved, at all. I see you love to pull scriptures from their intended context to apply them so try this one, Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. I dislike this practice because the entire Bible is of one context, penned by about 40 Penmen, authored by by a single Author, God.

These people are deserving of their punishment and nothing will change that any more than the truth that I am deserving of all God has allowed and may, in the future, allow. You have, not very neatly, sought to avoid the one question you must answer and I ask it directly, this time. Will you obey
God? And if yes, how far? Reba, Jason and other keep pointing that direction and people just continue to duck, hoping to get none of it on them.

 

[jasoncran]

the anti death penalty types aren't aware of the new ruling by the scotus. to with that no child that is tried as an adult for any capital punishment can serve over 15 years. despite any sign of remorse or not. its called cruel and unusual punishment to sentence those to life.

In 2010 the United States Supreme Court ruled that sentencing minors to automatic sentences of life without parole for crimes other than those involving a homicide (generally, first-degree murder, and usually with aggravating factors and/or accompanying felonies) violated the Eighth Amendment's ban on "cruel and unusual" punishment, in the case of Graham v. Florida.[14] In finding that the U.S. Constitution prohibits as cruel and unusual punishment a life without parole sentence for a juvenile in a non-homicide case, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "the overwhelming weight of international opinion against" juvenile life without parole "provide respected and significant confirmation for our own conclusions".[15] In 2012, the Court considered whether to ban the automatic use of it completely as a sentence for minors, even in cases of aggravated first degree murder (what is usually called felony murder, capital murder, or murder with aggravating circumstances, and for an adult could mean a sentence of death or life without parole; the planned rape and murder of a young child or the planned murder of more than one person at a time—e.g., a couple in their house—would be two examples) where it is still a possibility. The Court had already made the death penalty unconstitutional for minors in 2005. In June 2012, the Court ruled that it could never be automatically used as a sentence for a minor (under 18), although the Court left room for it as a sentence that can eventually be given (for now) in certain first-degree murder cases once the judge has taken mitigating circumstances and other factors into account.

from Wikipedia on the life without parole. the question is what is mitigating. liberal judges are soft. on crime. so it depends on them to decide

 

[jasoncran]

soft on rape? yes the army has that problem. 20000 rapes a year and all of them guilty in court but only sentenced to the most one year and now at large and not a registered sex offender.

 

[Lewis]

Wow! There is so much conversation going on here and so much avoidance of the issue. For the Christian to deal with this, emotion must be avoided and logic must be applied but only in accordance with God's Word to us. I allueded to this early on and one or two others have maintained it through out and still, so many of you refuse the counsel of God on the matter.

God said, way back in Genesis, that man is created in the image of God. And 5 or 6 chapters later He said, "if a man kill a man, kill him. I mentioned the lady that pick axed a man and his wife to death, here in Texas, that, in prison, found Salvation and none of you touched it. We put the needle in her arm and she awaits our arrival in Heaven, right now. Her Earthly debt is paid and she is our sister in Christ but she had a debt due thar has, in her case, been collected.

On this planet, there is a perfect example of what is required of the adults here that every one of us should have learned before we were 2 years old and it does rule over us to this day... or we are in rebellion and Hell bound.

When I was two and I disobeyed my mom or my dad thedy smacked the backs of the offending hand, inflicting discipline through pain. As I grew, so did punishment. My dad knew his son, very well, and he knew the importance of education. When I was a teen I loved discipline in school because I could handle the maximum of 21 swats and every time I received swats, my Rep. as One Bad Boy grew.

Not so at home! Dad knew he still needed to treat me as an infant to embarrass me but he also knew how to punish me so it hurt. He made me sit there, at the table, for up to an hour, discussing my offence. mentally screaming, HIT ME! The punishment MUST fit the crime and every one of us have one point of commonality that cannot ever be denied, we were, all of us, created by God, in God's image. If ay one of us kills the other we must be snuffed out or we are disobedient brats.

This entire issue is settled in the same manor as every other sin, we repent and "obey" the Father we claim for our own. The murderer, the rapist, the paedophile, the thief, every one of them can die in their sin or they can repent but, either way, they owe a debt!

So we arrive back at the beginning of the subject; Will you obey God? There is no room for emotion, there is no room for desire, we are called to obey! Those of us that jumped on our choppers and took off as the rockets were going off all around us, those of us that stood there loading the 105 shell into the breach, even though the mortors were exploding around us and those of us that poked our heads up and sighted the next shot, we understand obedience. You have no other option ad regardless of feelings, you obey or, in this case, you are placing yourself in danger of going to Hell.

This is a sin issue, it's simple, where is your God?

I remember that case' and that woman did allow Christ into her life and He changed her' and she became a humble servant and tried to spread the Word of God. I was very touched by her. But she knew she had a debt to pay and she faced it knowing that she was going to the kingdom. I wanted her spared but it was not to be. I decerned that she was for real and I asked God to spare her, but He had other things in mind for her.

 

[agua.]

In a manor of speaking, yes! There is a law of science that we love to push aside that is born out with complete readings of the scriptures; For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

These people committing these crimes/sins, some of them "claiming" Jesus as their Saviour, are not saved, at all. I see you love to pull scriptures from their intended context to apply them so try this one, Matt. 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. I dislike this practice because the entire Bible is of one context, penned by about 40 Penmen, authored by by a single Author, God.

These people are deserving of their punishment and nothing will change that any more than the truth that I am deserving of all God has allowed and may, in the future, allow. You have, not very neatly, sought to avoid the one question you must answer and I ask it directly, this time. Will you obey
God? And if yes, how far? Reba, Jason and other keep pointing that direction and people just continue to duck, hoping to get none of it on them.

Ok Bill. ( I'm not arguing against the death penalty btw ) . I'm a bit confused why you think I like pulling scriptures out of context and I still don't get the point you're making. So far it looks like you're saying every sin we commit in this life will be paid for in this life is that what you mean ?

I'm not avoiding your question I thought it was rhetorical; after all every Christian should answer yes. I still haven't met a sinless one yet though so may I ask you a question ; Why did Jesus die for you ?

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." is inline with Buddhism and karma belief.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Ok Bill. ( I'm not arguing against the death penalty btw ) . I'm a bit confused why you think I like pulling scriptures out of context and I still don't get the point you're making. So far it looks like you're saying every sin we commit in this life will be paid for in this life is that what you mean ?

As I read the scriptures, there will be no sin in Heaven and every sin we commit must be , honestly, repented of or paid for in Hell. When go forward and shed crocodile tears and on Monday we do the same sin again, we have not paid for that sin but we will.

I'm not avoiding your question I thought it was rhetorical; after all every Christian should answer yes. I still haven't met a sinless one yet though so may I ask you a question ; Why did Jesus die for you ?

It is rhetorical in that I do not need the answer from you, you need the answer. Jesus died for me because I was unclean and could never repay the debt I owed. I am washed in the blood and still, I am unfit to pay my debts.

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." is inline with Buddhism and karma belief.

That does not mean the Christian must be dumb to this same truth. Truth is just that.

 

[jasoncran]

As I read the scriptures, there will be no sin in Heaven and every sin we commit must be , honestly, repented of or paid for in Hell. When go forward and shed crocodile tears and on Monday we do the same sin again, we have not paid for that sin but we will.


It is rhetorical in that I do not need the answer from you, you need the answer. Jesus died for me because I was unclean and could never repay the debt I owed. I am washed in the blood and still, I am unfit to pay my debts.


That does not mean the Christian must be dumb to this same truth. Truth is just that.

that which a man soeth so shall he reap. if we sow of the spirit we reap the same, if we sow of the flesh we reap the flesh. yup Buddhist.

 

[Gary]

Reba, Jason and other keep pointing that direction and people just continue to duck, hoping to get none of it on them.

Who are we, as Christians, that we should judge who should live and who should die?

 

[jasoncran]

Who are we, as Christians, that we should judge who should live and who should die?

we judge in that scenario. summery execution part of the state's right to execute. that is why i always mention it.