Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[DRS81]

Jethro Bodine When you get a chance, please respond to post #2019.

 

[gr8grace3]

Jesus said those who Love Him keep His Commandments!

I agree JLB, for a saved person.

If we keep His commandments to keep ourselves saved or to gain salvation it is fruitless and reward free. The motivation is wrong. We love Him because of what He HAS done for us. Not to gain His Love or maintain what He has done for us.

If our motivation is wrong, our works are burned up. If our motivation is because of what He has already done for us(salvation) and we are rebounding and walking in the Spirit ,doing DIVINE good works, the fruit will remain and be purified.

If we are trying to maintain salvation or gain salvation by following His Commandments, those works( ALL of them )are burned up for the believer and will not get the unbeliever saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JLB - Jethro Bodine What are your thoughts on Eph 1:13-14, 1 Cor 3:15 and Rom 11:29.

Ephesians 1:13-14 NASB
All true......as long as you keep that which secures those thing--trust in the blood of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:15 NASB
If the 'stones' the worker in the building of God places on the foundation of Christ (1 Peter 2:5 NASB, Ephesians 2:20-22 NASB) end up being nothing more than wood, hay, straw, or stubble that work (those people) that he placed on the foundation will not pass safely through the coming Day of God's Fiery Wrath and will be burned up. The worker will have no reward (those people) to boast about in the kingdom of God, assuming the worker himself is a precious stone, and not wood, hay, or stubble, and able to survive the coming Judgment.

Romans 11:29 NASB
God's call is indeed irrevocable. He had a plan for Israel from the very beginning. One day that plan will come to fulfillment. Future generations of Israelites will come to faith in Christ and the calling will be fulfilled. That hardly means Israelites who rejected Christ and died are somehow saved despite their rejection of Christ while they were in this life. They are eternally lost. They died in their sin without salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jethro Bodine When you get a chance, please respond to post #2019.

I think I got you covered in post #2023.

 

[gr8grace3]

Ephesians 1:13-14 NASB
All true......as long as you keep that which secures those thing--trust in the blood of Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:15 NASB
If the 'stones' the worker in the building of God places on the foundation of Christ (1 Peter 2:5 NASB, Ephesians 2:20-22 NASB) end up being nothing more than wood, hay, straw, or stubble that work (those people) that he placed on the foundation will not pass safely through the coming Day of God's Fiery Wrath and will be burned up. The worker will have no reward (those people) to boast about in the kingdom of God, assuming the worker himself is a precious stone, and not wood, hay, or stubble, and able to survive the coming Judgment.

Romans 11:29 NASB
God's call is indeed irrevocable. He had a plan for Israel from the very beginning. One day that plan will come to fulfillment. Future generations of Israelites will come to faith in Christ and the calling will be fulfilled. That hardly means Israelites who rejected Christ and died are somehow saved despite their rejection of Christ while they were in this life. They are eternally lost. They died in their sin without salvation.

Just to make sure, are you saying the Literal blood Jethro?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...if God can strip a person of their salvation how is it he called them to him in the first place just to take it back later?

Ask the king in the parable of the unmerciful servant--Matthew 18:23-35 NASB.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Just to make sure, are you saying the Literal blood Jethro?

The one and only.

"...you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise." (Exodus 21:23-25 NASB)

11 'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.' (Leviticus 17:11 NASB)

 

[DRS81]

Ephesians 1:13-14 NASB
All true......as long as you keep that which secures those thing--trust in the blood of Christ.

But we didn't mark ourselves with our own seal and mark. The seal and mark comes from God.

This scripture is referring to GOD'S mark, GOD'S seal, GOD'S promised Holy Spirit. GOD'S deposit, GOD'S guarantee, GOD'S inheritance, GOD'S possession.

1. message of truth
2. gospel of your salvation
3. believed
4. marked
5. seal
6. promised Holy Spirit
7. deposit
8. guaranteeing
9. inheritance
10. redemption
11. possession

Notice it says, when you believed, you were marked. We are only believing once Jethro. Rom 10:9.

Romans 11:5-6

What are your thoughts on God's grace.

Rom 11:5-6 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 11:29 NASB
God's call is indeed irrevocable. He had a plan for Israel from the very beginning. One day that plan will come to fulfillment. Future generations of Israelites will come to faith in Christ and the calling will be fulfilled. That hardly means Israelites who rejected Christ and died are somehow saved despite their rejection of Christ while they were in this life. They are eternally lost. They died in their sin without salvation.

Who is the election that is spoken of here in Rom 11:28.

 

[white hamster]

Yes, one more. Why isn't Matthew 18:23-35 NASB verses that say salvation can be lost????

BIBLE COMMENTARY: Reformation Study Bible – Matt 19:23–26
19:23–26 Wealth was considered evidence of God’s approval, and the rich would seem to be the likeliest candidates for the kingdom. Jesus turned this idea upside-down, and the result was not lost on the disciples: “Who then can be saved?” (v. 25).

 

[Kathi]

We do know Kathi, It IS a huge issue to lose rewards. Just take the reign for instance, we can't even imagine what it is to reign with a perfect King ,let alone live with Him. To not only live with Him But Reign with a perfect King. It is beyond imagination, it is ours for the taking, and we can LOSE it. It is a HUGE issue. and that is not to mention all the other rewards and blessings for those that love Him.

We are also to be given a white stone Revelation 2:17.This too could be given for our faithfulness.

 

[JLB]

What are your thoughts on these JLB. Do you know who the elect are and what the definition of irrevocable is and what God's Grace looks like?

Rom 11:28-29 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable

Rom 11:5-6 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

• This is the phrase Jesus used to those who were standing before Him on Judgement Day.

• This is the phrase Jesus used to those who did not inherit the Kingdom -

41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


Not inheriting the kingdom, means: being sentenced to everlasting fire.


There is not three groups of people before the Lord.

There are two:

Those who inherit the kingdom.

Those who don't inherit the kingdom.

I'm not mentioning grace and I'm not mentioning works, or anything else.


Inheriting the kingdom, or not inheriting the kingdom.

If you have a scripture that pertains to the phrase inherit the kingdom, or not Inherit the kingdom, then please share it.

Here are some examples:

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

and again -

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

and again -


48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed-- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:48-52


I think this verse illustrates clearly, the idea, that this phrase means.

Flesh and blood will not be granted access into the kingdom of God.


Not inherit the kingdom shows us that those who practice the works of the flesh, as Paul wrote to the Corinthians and the Galatians, clearly means not being granted access to the kingdom of God.


If you see a phrase within these verse's that is about rewards, then please point it out and let's discuss within the context of these verses.



JLB

 

[Kathi]

I am sure glad that I do not believe that my salvation could be lost.There would be about 100 times the Lord would have said "Sorry you are not going to heaven".

 

[JLB]

I am sure glad that I do not believe that my salvation could be lost.There would be about 100 times the Lord would have said "Sorry you are not going to heaven".

When you messed up, did you ask Him to forgive you?

Do you trust and believe in Him today?


I think so.


JLB

 

[Kathi]

When you messed up, did you ask Him to forgive you?

Do you trust and believe in Him today?


I think so.


JLB

Sometimes I asked for forgivness but alot of times I did not.I was not walking a very close walk with God then but I was a Christian.I know for sure and for certain that God is going to take me to heaven not matter how many times I have gotten off track.God has a ton of mercy and grace.

 

[DRS81]

There are two:

Those who inherit the kingdom.

Those who don't inherit the kingdom.

I'm not mentioning grace and I'm not mentioning works, or anything else.

But your belief of non-osas is based on works salvation and not grace salvation. Why are you not discussing God's grace.

Those who inherit the kingdom are those who are no longer under the law and now are under grace. Those who are under grace are those who are born again.

Eph 1:13-14 We didn't mark ourselves with our own seal and mark. The seal and mark comes from God.

This scripture is referring to GOD'S mark, GOD'S seal, GOD'S promised Holy Spirit. GOD'S deposit, GOD'S guarantee, GOD'S inheritance, GOD'S possession.

1. message of truth
2. gospel of your salvation
3. believed
4. marked
5. seal
6. promised Holy Spirit
7. deposit
8. guaranteeing
9. inheritance
10. redemption
11. possession

Notice it says, when you believed, you were marked. We are only believing once. Rom 10:9.

 

[JLB]

Does it strike you odd that there is a faction within a religious community that argues God repeals his eternal salvation? After all that Christ did to take the sin of the world upon himself as the ultimate sacrifice for sin, the perfect unblemished lamb on the cross, there are those who dispute his sacrifice and argue those whom Jesus died for, the grace of eternal life, eternal irrevocable salvation ( Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.), is a lie.

It's sad. But you'll never argue them out of that point of view. Scriptures out of context will never create a Jesus in the Bible who taught his father takes back what he chose to give to those whom he called. Not ever.

Rather, after this many pages of circular argument by that particular group, who I'll guarantee you imagine they are part of the irrevocably saved bunch and all whom they're trying to argue into believing can lose their salvation is everyone else, why not stop arguing?

When God's eternal word doesn't get through....

Instead, hold those in that faction of revocables in your prayers. They're arguing a vacant platform that doesn't exist in scripture. They're standing on an atheist model, arguing on behalf of a pagan god and a false christ when they hope to convince people their pagan god is superior to that of the Christians. Because their god model that revokes eternal life, and this is what they don't see, eternal salvation wouldn't be called eternal by Christ himself if it was revocable, doesn't exist in Christian Bible scriptures.

Their false god that they model on ours. One who gives and knows all things about all people to whom he gives and has known them prior to their coming to life in this world. The false doctrine proponents strip our God's gift of eternal salvation because, as they argue, the human will to let it go is greater than god's eternal desire to grace his elect with it.

That god is the one our God condemned in the 1st commandment.

And was the false religion god ideology that Jesus repealed when he took his last breath on the cross and accomplished all the father sent him to do.

You'll never argue false doctrine proponents into the truth of God's word. And do you know why? Because they're not the one's whom God calls. That's why they can't comprehend the scripture that speaks to what God gives.

Pray for them. Feeding them with arguments that have tallied over 100 pages makes the Christians look insecure. And makes them appear to have a point that is worthy of argument by us, because the written word of God doesn't get through to them.

That's terribly sad. But it is God's will.
Let it be.

Did you know that your Avatar is an Ankh.

Ankh. Egyption hieroglyph for life, possibly originaly a representation of a sandal strap. As a symbol is denotes eternal life and when held to the nose of a dead pharaoh ensures his everlasting existance. It is held by many deities, in particular Atum, the sun-god of Heliopolis, and (when seated) Sekhmet, the lion-headed war-goddess of memphis. A was Sceptre combining the djed column and ankh is the attribute of Ptah. On the walls of temples it gives divine protection to the deceased. The Coptic Church adopted it as a form of the Cross, called ansate (having a handle).

http://www.holoweb.net/~liam/pictures/ankh/ankh.html

 

[JLB]

Sometimes I asked for forgivness but alot of times I did not.I was not walking a very close walk with God then but I was a Christian.I know for sure and for certain that God is going to take me to heaven not matter how many times I have gotten off track.God has a ton of mercy and grace.

Myself!

I continued to believe.

Thanks for sharing.


JLB

 

[Kathi]

Did you know that your Avatar is an Ankh.

Ankh. Egyption hieroglyph for life, possibly originaly a representation of a sandal strap. As a symbol is denotes eternal life and when held to the nose of a dead pharaoh ensures his everlasting existance. It is held by many deities, in particular Atum, the sun-god of Heliopolis, and (when seated) Sekhmet, the lion-headed war-goddess of memphis. A was Sceptre combining the djed column and ankh is the attribute of Ptah. On the walls of temples it gives divine protection to the deceased. The Coptic Church adopted it as a form of the Cross, called ansate (having a handle).

http://www.holoweb.net/~liam/pictures/ankh/ankh.html

Whoa white.I don't even know how to pronounce that

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, one more. Why isn't Matthew 18:23-35 NASB verses that say salvation can be lost????

Because it doesn't say that salvation can be lost. One must "read between the line" to conclude that.

The issue is clear to me. The servant who was shown grace and forgiveness by God didn't show any grace or forgiveness to his fellow man. For that, God calls him to account. It speaks of God's perfect justice and discipline for those who aren't faithful or obedient.

Please explain why this explanation doesn't work.

He was forgiven, and then he had his debt reinstated. Remember, you said your doctrine is the one that takes the plain words of scripture for what they say, and mine does not.

Correct. There is no mention of loss of salvation, so I'm not sure why you think it is about loss of salvation. It is about forgiveness. Remember these words of Jesus: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Mt 6:14,15

What Jesus said here in 6:14,15 He illustrated in Mt 18. We are commanded to forgive others, as Christ has forgiven us, we Eph 4:32 - And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

Correct. A willful lifestyle of unrepentant sin is what walking away from the free gift of God's forgiveness looks like.

We can't walk away from the free gift. We can walk away from our faith. Rom 11:29 prevents the gift from being rejected.

If one can "give away" their gift of eternal life, why aren't there any verses that actually plainly say that?

 

[white hamster]

Did you know that your Avatar is an Ankh.

Ankh. Egyption hieroglyph for life, possibly originaly a representation of a sandal strap. As a symbol is denotes eternal life and when held to the nose of a dead pharaoh ensures his everlasting existance. It is held by many deities, in particular Atum, the sun-god of Heliopolis, and (when seated) Sekhmet, the lion-headed war-goddess of memphis. A was Sceptre combining the djed column and ankh is the attribute of Ptah. On the walls of temples it gives divine protection to the deceased. The Coptic Church adopted it as a form of the Cross, called ansate (having a handle).

http://www.holoweb.net/~liam/pictures/ankh/ankh.html

No, it's an astronomical symbol identifying the planet Venus.The planet associated with females. Just as the male avatar here is the Mars symbol.

Ankh's don't look like the Venus glyph.