Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Anabaptists Beliefs and Doctrines and their influence.

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00

reddogs

Member
I was doing a study on the 'State of the Dead' when I kept seeing references to the Anabaptist and their take. This really made me want to dig deeper and see what Anabaptist beliefs and doctrines were. What I found was the Anabaptists were distinct at that time because of their assertion of the necessity of adult baptism, rejecting the infant baptism practiced by the Roman Catholic Church.

They believed that true baptism required a public confession of both sin and faith, which could only be accomplished as an adult exercise of free will. Anabaptists also held to the belief in the separation of church and state, and the concept that the church represents the community of saved. Some of their doctrines can be seen in light of the times with the other Reformers changing the long held beliefs coming from the Catholic Church, as they struggled to understand the light being given.

The original beliefs that they had at the start were the following:
�..They had three unique beliefs, unique from the established churches but very biblical:

(1) Believer's Baptism The Anabaptists held that a person must first believe the gospel before he could be accepted into the Church with the sign of water baptism. This is in accordance with the teachings of their Lord Jesus who placed believing ahead of baptism (Mt 28:19 and Mk 16:16).

(2) Pacifism The Anabaptists held that one could not obtain or protect his rights by the use of force. This is in accordance with the teachings of their Lord Jesus who commanded his followers not to resist an evil man (Mt 5:39 and John 18:36).

(3) Community of Goods The Anabaptists held that one could not have private property but must share all his goods in common with Christ's brothers and sisters. This is in accordance with the teachings of their Lord Jesus who said that no one could be his followers unless they gave up all of their possessions (Luke 14:33, also Mt 6:19-34, Mt 19:21, Luke 12:33, John 13:34-35, Acts 2:44-47 and Acts 4:32-5:11).

Today most Anabaptists do not hold to item 3 above, community of goods, but it was part of the original Anabaptists belief.

Now look at this:
What sets the Anabaptists apart from other Christian religions is their view of Jesus Christ. Those Christian religions who do focus on Jesus, such as the evangelicals and other Protestants, tend see Jesus primarily as a child in the manger and as a sacrifice on the cross, he is their savior. This is what one sees in their songs and in their confessions of faith. The Anabaptists see Jesus not only as their savior but also as their teacher, the one who teaches them how to live their lives while on this earth. They believe that obedience to his commands is required; therefore they try to live as he taught. Thus they are a separate people, following the hard narrow path to the Kingdom of God that Jesus taught and lived.

It might be accurate to say that evangelicals and other Protestants today stress the salvation aspect of the Gospel (evangelism, witnessing, building large congregations) and interpret this as faithfulness to their religion, while Anabaptist groups today are concerned with discipleship, seeing this as faithfulness to the teachings of Jesus..

A distinct teaching that came out of the Anabaptist movement is the premise that the church should be an assembly of believers having came through a regenerative experience. They understood the New Testament to clearly teach a process of regeneration; which is, becoming aware of one's sinfulness through the redemptive work of the Holy Spirit, acknowledging the need of rescue from this situation, receiving salvation by grace (unmerited love of God demonstrated through Christ's sacrifice), and continuing spiritual renewal of the mind to become a witness of God's offer of grace.

Now they spread and split into many groups, but their doctrines on the whole seem to have developed into the following basic beliefs:

Anabaptists maintain that a loving God created the universe and everything in it. Marred by sin, the cosmos now stands in need of redemption, which God has offered through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Anabaptists believe in a sovereign triune God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Most Anabaptists believe in a personal archenemy of God called "Satan" or "the Devil."

Anabaptists believe that human beings were created to glorify and live in relationship with God. Since all humans break that relationship through sinful actions, they are faced with a choice: to continue their rebellion against God or repent of their sins and place their faith in God's saving grace.

Anabaptists believe that, although God created the world good, human sinfulness has resulted in great suffering. Many Anabaptists have interpreted some forms of suffering as a mark of faithfulness, befalling those who choose to "carry the cross" of Jesus Christ, the Suffering Servant.

Anabaptists contend that salvation is not earned by one's works, but rather comes through faith in Jesus Christ. Those who place their trust in Christ enter into eternal life with God, a life that extends beyond the grave.


Here is one list of current Anabaptist beliefs:
The List of Anabaptist Beliefs
1. Infant baptism is a false baptism. Moreover, baptism does not save. One has to be saved in order to be baptised, i.e. the condition for baptism is to be a follower of Christ by having a living belief in Christ (cf. Acts 8:36-38).
2. Church and the State should be separated. Church is a Body of followers of Christ who respect the Laws of the State as long as it doesn't contradict with the Law of Christ. Church is not a political institution having any political power in the State. Church should not have any support from the State.
3. The Roman Catholic Church is not the true Church of Christ.
4. Calvinist theology of God's election is wrong. God does not unconditionally reprobate people to Hell. Rather, God's Manifested Wrath is conditional, and the condition is of not being in Christ. God will show His wrath only to people who are not in Christ. Likewise, God's election is conditional, and the condition is being in Christ. God elects only people who are in Christ.
5. Lutheran theology of salvation is wrong. Faith in Christ should be a living faith, faith which is confirmed in the fruits of Spirit. People who are living sinful life, without true repentance, will end in Hell. Living in sin and occasionally falling in sin are not the same thing. All children of God can fall in sin because of our weaknesses, but they do not live in sin.
6. Worshiping God is a very serious thing, and we ought not to introduce new things in our Worship, of which the Bible doesn't say anything about.
7. The Bible is a closed canon of holy books, i.e no more additions to the Bible are allowed because there are no more Apostles and Prophets in the Church. Only Apostles and Prophets have the authority to add new books to the Canon of the Bible. There are no new revelations or prophecies, and all supernatural Charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit are no more present in the children of God. The Charismatic gifts were only present during the Apostolic period of Church (the 1st. century). The Bible is our necessary and sufficient supreme authority in our lives.
http://www.house-church.net/beliefs.htm

You can see the hand of God leading the Reformation, and some of it was hard to discern fully as sometimes even the Reformers came up with the wrong view or could not grasp or accept some parts of the truth, but the truth was being poured out.
 
Hey reddogs

Well, I practice my faith, as far as fellowship worship, as a baptist. It's been my understanding that the broader baptist denomination is the continuation of the anabaptist faith. All that to say that I believe wholeheartedly 100% in everything that you have researched so far as to 'what' anabaptists believe.

God bless,
Ted
 
Here is one list of current Anabaptist beliefs:
However, as you 'noted', current Anabaptist if you can find them
are not nearly nor necessarily as pure and true as they once were.
If you can find them true, a small remnant, please do not say where ....
to reveal where they are , apart from their own doing so,
brings to them everywhere persecution, martyrdom, afflictions .....
The Anabaptists see Jesus not only as their savior but also as their teacher, the one who teaches them how to live their lives while on this earth.
This is/or was/ why they had power same as the first century baptists and assemblies. (p.s. they were not called baptists in the first century....)
They believe that obedience to his commands is required; therefore they try to live as he taught.
I did not see anywhere in Scripture nor in the true believers lives an attempt to "try" to obey. They simply obeyed. Or fell. Or sinned and repented.
Thus they are a separate people, following the hard narrow path to the Kingdom of God that Jesus taught and lived.
Yes. They are today rejected, persecuted, mocked, even shunned; and martyred daily around the world.
 
Another sect full of errors apart from Christ and His apostolic church founded on Peter!

The tradition of men!

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29
 
...
(3) Community of Goods The Anabaptists held that one could not have private property but must share all his goods in common with Christ's brothers and sisters. This is in accordance with the teachings of their Lord Jesus who said that no one could be his followers unless they gave up all of their possessions (Luke 14:33, also Mt 6:19-34, Mt 19:21, Luke 12:33, John 13:34-35, Acts 2:44-47 and Acts 4:32-5:11).
Anabaptists are wonderful Christians but I think they were a bit off on "Community of Goods". Notice what Peter says to Ananias:

"While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." (Acts 5:4 NKJ)

In other words, "it was yours to do with as you pleased, and after it was sold the money was still yours to spend anyway you wanted." But you lied to God you were giving it freely to the church.

Never make vows you don't pay, never lie to God. What happened to Ananias and his wife could happen to you.

This is not communism, the property wasn't seized for the community, nor was anyone forced to liquidate. It was a 'FREEWILL OFFERING'

This is consistent with Christ's teaching:

8 Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold."
9 And Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham;
10 "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." (Lk. 19:8-10 NKJ)

Zacchaeus didn't give all he owned to the poor, only half. But it is clear from his action, even surpassing what the law required (Lev. 6:1-5) for restoration, that he had "sold all he owned in his heart and was following Jesus".

Except for that slight error, I believe the main doctrines of the Anabaptists is orthodox.

Today the Mennonites and Amish consider them forerunners, while Southern Baptists like myself trace our roots to English evangelicalism and Puritanism.

Both Socialism and Communism fail every where its tried, even in the Church.

For example, the Pilgrams tried socialism until they nearly starved because of it. Only after instituting Capitalist reforms did the huge rewards of private labor cause such an abundance of goods that they declared a feast thanksgiving Day to God, and gladly shared it with native Americans.

 
Last edited:
I agree, but the commune wouldn't achieve its full potential. It would barely sustain itself leaving few resources for the poor around it.
Hi Alfred Persson

I don't see it as a 'commune' type lifestyle. I think that if our fellowship, which numbers about 800 active congregants wanted to focus on providing for those in need within our fellowship that we could do it. Of course, today I don't think it would be a case of people necessarily having to sell possessions to provide for those of the fellowship in need. We have plenty of resources in cash accounts that a lot of the congregants could offer.

It just has to be a focus of any fellowship that they actively work to address the needs of those who are among us. But I'm sure that such a focus, and how it would be addressed, might be different from fellowship to fellowship. I think it well worth considering that, for the average person in Paul's day, people didn't have much in the way of excess resources.

We had a woman who was fairly destitute, and her vehicle was a rust bucket and she took it into a shop because she was hearing a lot of thunking and such when driving. Come to find out there her control arms were rusted pretty much through and were bending. The vehicle had come from Ohio and everything under it was pretty much corroded beyond salvage. The mechanic that looked at it said that he couldn't even get the bolts off of the control arms because they were practically a solid piece of metal with the control arms at this point. One of the people of our fellowship who owns a car dealership wrangled her a 2014 Honda CRV that was really in great shape and gave it to her for free. FREE! I was almost jealous.

But the point is that most fellowships today can provide for real needs without having to sell goods. In Paul's day people didn't really have bank accounts where they could store money. Having a few thousand dollars in the bank was unheard of in those days.

God bless,
Ted
 
I was doing a study on the 'State of the Dead' when I kept seeing references to the Anabaptist and their take. This really made me want to dig deeper and see what Anabaptist beliefs and doctrines were. What I found was the Anabaptists were distinct at that time because of their assertion of the necessity of adult baptism, rejecting the infant baptism practiced by the Roman Catholic Church.

They believed that true baptism required a public confession of both sin and faith, which could only be accomplished as an adult exercise of free will. Anabaptists also held to the belief in the separation of church and state, and the concept that the church represents the community of saved. Some of their doctrines can be seen in light of the times with the other Reformers changing the long held beliefs coming from the Catholic Church, as they struggled to understand the light being given.

The original beliefs that they had at the start were the following:
�..They had three unique beliefs, unique from the established churches but very biblical:

(1) Believer's Baptism The Anabaptists held that a person must first believe the gospel before he could be accepted into the Church with the sign of water baptism. This is in accordance with the teachings of their Lord Jesus who placed believing ahead of baptism (Mt 28:19 and Mk 16:16).

(2) Pacifism The Anabaptists held that one could not obtain or protect his rights by the use of force. This is in accordance with the teachings of their Lord Jesus who commanded his followers not to resist an evil man (Mt 5:39 and John 18:36).

(3) Community of Goods The Anabaptists held that one could not have private property but must share all his goods in common with Christ's brothers and sisters. This is in accordance with the teachings of their Lord Jesus who said that no one could be his followers unless they gave up all of their possessions (Luke 14:33, also Mt 6:19-34, Mt 19:21, Luke 12:33, John 13:34-35, Acts 2:44-47 and Acts 4:32-5:11).

Today most Anabaptists do not hold to item 3 above, community of goods, but it was part of the original Anabaptists belief.

Now look at this:
What sets the Anabaptists apart from other Christian religions is their view of Jesus Christ. Those Christian religions who do focus on Jesus, such as the evangelicals and other Protestants, tend see Jesus primarily as a child in the manger and as a sacrifice on the cross, he is their savior. This is what one sees in their songs and in their confessions of faith. The Anabaptists see Jesus not only as their savior but also as their teacher, the one who teaches them how to live their lives while on this earth. They believe that obedience to his commands is required; therefore they try to live as he taught. Thus they are a separate people, following the hard narrow path to the Kingdom of God that Jesus taught and lived.

It might be accurate to say that evangelicals and other Protestants today stress the salvation aspect of the Gospel (evangelism, witnessing, building large congregations) and interpret this as faithfulness to their religion, while Anabaptist groups today are concerned with discipleship, seeing this as faithfulness to the teachings of Jesus..

A distinct teaching that came out of the Anabaptist movement is the premise that the church should be an assembly of believers having came through a regenerative experience. They understood the New Testament to clearly teach a process of regeneration; which is, becoming aware of one's sinfulness through the redemptive work of the Holy Spirit, acknowledging the need of rescue from this situation, receiving salvation by grace (unmerited love of God demonstrated through Christ's sacrifice), and continuing spiritual renewal of the mind to become a witness of God's offer of grace.

Now they spread and split into many groups, but their doctrines on the whole seem to have developed into the following basic beliefs:

Anabaptists maintain that a loving God created the universe and everything in it. Marred by sin, the cosmos now stands in need of redemption, which God has offered through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Anabaptists believe in a sovereign triune God: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Most Anabaptists believe in a personal archenemy of God called "Satan" or "the Devil."

Anabaptists believe that human beings were created to glorify and live in relationship with God. Since all humans break that relationship through sinful actions, they are faced with a choice: to continue their rebellion against God or repent of their sins and place their faith in God's saving grace.

Anabaptists believe that, although God created the world good, human sinfulness has resulted in great suffering. Many Anabaptists have interpreted some forms of suffering as a mark of faithfulness, befalling those who choose to "carry the cross" of Jesus Christ, the Suffering Servant.

Anabaptists contend that salvation is not earned by one's works, but rather comes through faith in Jesus Christ. Those who place their trust in Christ enter into eternal life with God, a life that extends beyond the grave.


Here is one list of current Anabaptist beliefs:
The List of Anabaptist Beliefs
1. Infant baptism is a false baptism. Moreover, baptism does not save. One has to be saved in order to be baptised, i.e. the condition for baptism is to be a follower of Christ by having a living belief in Christ (cf. Acts 8:36-38).
2. Church and the State should be separated. Church is a Body of followers of Christ who respect the Laws of the State as long as it doesn't contradict with the Law of Christ. Church is not a political institution having any political power in the State. Church should not have any support from the State.
3. The Roman Catholic Church is not the true Church of Christ.
4. Calvinist theology of God's election is wrong. God does not unconditionally reprobate people to Hell. Rather, God's Manifested Wrath is conditional, and the condition is of not being in Christ. God will show His wrath only to people who are not in Christ. Likewise, God's election is conditional, and the condition is being in Christ. God elects only people who are in Christ.
5. Lutheran theology of salvation is wrong. Faith in Christ should be a living faith, faith which is confirmed in the fruits of Spirit. People who are living sinful life, without true repentance, will end in Hell. Living in sin and occasionally falling in sin are not the same thing. All children of God can fall in sin because of our weaknesses, but they do not live in sin.
6. Worshiping God is a very serious thing, and we ought not to introduce new things in our Worship, of which the Bible doesn't say anything about.
7. The Bible is a closed canon of holy books, i.e no more additions to the Bible are allowed because there are no more Apostles and Prophets in the Church. Only Apostles and Prophets have the authority to add new books to the Canon of the Bible. There are no new revelations or prophecies, and all supernatural Charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit are no more present in the children of God. The Charismatic gifts were only present during the Apostolic period of Church (the 1st. century). The Bible is our necessary and sufficient supreme authority in our lives.
http://www.house-church.net/beliefs.htm

You can see the hand of God leading the Reformation, and some of it was hard to discern fully as sometimes even the Reformers came up with the wrong view or could not grasp or accept some parts of the truth, but the truth was being poured out.
Could you give a time period?
 
Could you give a time period?
Twenty years or ten years ago, the testimonies OR descriptions of the Anabaptists were the most in line with the Bible than any other group.
The testimonies though, were Anabaptists from centuries ago, that almost no one ever talked about.
The more recent testimonies or stories about Anabaptists , in the last two centuries or so,
that were publicly available on the internet
were or seemed to me mostly watered down, not nearly as faithful and true as those long ago.
Just now looking for some of the older testimonies,
it was difficult to find any reference to those who remained faithful to Jesus and lived like the first century believers did <do?> .....
 
Hi Alfred Persson

I don't see it as a 'commune' type lifestyle. I think that if our fellowship, which numbers about 800 active congregants wanted to focus on providing for those in need within our fellowship that we could do it. Of course, today I don't think it would be a case of people necessarily having to sell possessions to provide for those of the fellowship in need. We have plenty of resources in cash accounts that a lot of the congregants could offer.

It just has to be a focus of any fellowship that they actively work to address the needs of those who are among us. But I'm sure that such a focus, and how it would be addressed, might be different from fellowship to fellowship. I think it well worth considering that, for the average person in Paul's day, people didn't have much in the way of excess resources.

We had a woman who was fairly destitute, and her vehicle was a rust bucket and she took it into a shop because she was hearing a lot of thunking and such when driving. Come to find out there her control arms were rusted pretty much through and were bending. The vehicle had come from Ohio and everything under it was pretty much corroded beyond salvage. The mechanic that looked at it said that he couldn't even get the bolts off of the control arms because they were practically a solid piece of metal with the control arms at this point. One of the people of our fellowship who owns a car dealership wrangled her a 2014 Honda CRV that was really in great shape and gave it to her for free. FREE! I was almost jealous.

But the point is that most fellowships today can provide for real needs without having to sell goods. In Paul's day people didn't really have bank accounts where they could store money. Having a few thousand dollars in the bank was unheard of in those days.

God bless,
Ted
Praise the LORD! God bless that car dealer. Christians should run groups as they believe pleases the LORD, without anything but praise from me.

My only concern some might mistake the early church as practicing socialism. Socialism is theft of other people's wealth to spend it in ways they may disagree with. Capitalism is the most Christian system that exists:

 
What I found was the Anabaptists were distinct at that time because of their assertion of the necessity of adult baptism, rejecting the infant baptism practiced by the Roman Catholic Church.

They believed that true baptism required a public confession of both sin and faith, which could only be accomplished as an adult exercise of free will.

So far so good. :salute


(1) Believer's Baptism The Anabaptists held that a person must first believe the gospel before he could be accepted into the Church with the sign of water baptism.

Amen.

(3) Community of Goods The Anabaptists held that one could not have private property but must share all his goods in common with Christ's brothers and sisters. This is in accordance with the teachings of their Lord Jesus who said that no one could be his followers unless they gave up all of their possessions (Luke 14:33, also Mt 6:19-34, Mt 19:21, Luke 12:33, John 13:34-35, Acts 2:44-47 and Acts 4:32-5:11).

Unfortunately, none of those verses say Christians could not have property, and share all his goods in common with other believers.

Well it was good while it lasted. :nono


But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. 1 Timothy 5:8



JLB
 
Hi Alfred Persson

Uhh, no.

God bless,
Ted
Christ sold his carpentry products and services on the open market, and gave from it to the poor and tithes to God. And supported His family. = Capitalism.

Paul made tents.

11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing. (1 Thess. 4:11-12 KJV)

We aren't told to expect Government pay, demonstrate loudly when they do not, use our hands to carry signs, and extract reparations from those not of our race = Socialism Social Justice Democrats

As a "dumb Swede" subject to generations of ridicule I figure society owes me 100 mil, if I was a Democrat.
 
Last edited:
Christ sold his carpentry products and services on the open market, and gave from it to the poor and tithes to God. And supported His family. = Capitalism.

Paul made tents.

11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing. (1 Thess. 4:11-12 KJV)

We aren't told to expect Government pay, demonstrate loudly when they do not, use our hands to carry signs, and extract reparations from those not of our race = Socialism Social Justice Democrats

As a "dumb Swede" subject to generations of ridicule I figure society owes me 100 mil, if I was a Democrat.
Hi Alfred Persson

Thanks for the laugh.

God bless
Ted
 
Capitalism is a god to some multitudes, even in multitudes of churches. It is definitely "no" as you said - not a goal for Christians.
If one blindly accepts the premises of socialists, capitalism bad. However, when one critically thinks on every premise, before forming a conclusion, capitalism "good", it springs from man being created in God's image, having free will and the liberty to use it.

 

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Back
Top