can america get free from oil?

[jasoncran]

with the recent bp oil spill the push for greener ideas is going to come up.

is the electric car feasible, and can solar panels or plants reduce our need for fossil power? and is it practical and economical

btw bp that evil oil company does own solar plants in spain, largest supplier of them. interesting

 

[jasoncran]

with the recent bp oil spill the push for greener ideas is going to come up.

is the electric car feasible, and can solar panels or plants reduce our need for fossil power? and is it practical and economical

btw bp that evil oil company does own solar plants in spain, largest supplier of them. interesting

oh the irony, the evil oil company trying to make money on green tech, yet villanized.

i am for restitution and obvious reforms that will avoid the spills, but its interesting when we see an oil company going green. and some say they block that stuff.

http://www.bp.com/genericcountryjump.do ... Id=7038143

 

[veteran]

For one who lives in the real world, it's not feasable to get off our dependence upon oil, not as long as enemies of the West are after it too, like Russia, Red China, North Korea, etc.

All... nations would have to agree to go to other forms of energy too, including our enemies. How feasable is that? God's people of all people, should know that's just a dream not at all possible for 'this' world, not in our time.

But what about when all nations have finally signed onto a "one world government" system over all nations? It would be feasable then, wouldn't it? The one world government bailing all our debts out, supplying everyone with a job, shelter, food, and clothing. No need for war then, right? Everyone could go 'green'.

But wouldn't environmentalists then want to stop use of all the other unnatural resources man would pollute with those other alternative sources of energy? If the truth be known, they actually want to revert mankind back to the most primordal state of living in nature with no unnatural waste. That means living in a tee-pee, wearing furs for clothing, basically going back to the stone age.

Russia has a strategic aim to control the oil in the Persian Gulf. That's what Russia's invasion of Afhganistan was about back a couple of decades ago. We lost our ally with the Shah of Iran back in the '70's when the Communists roused up Iranian rebels against him, so we started allying with Saddam in turn, sending Iraq military aid and weapons, and likely the ability to develope chem weapons, etc. It seems like every foreign nation over there we become friends with and aid, they later become joined with our enemies and they become a greater power than before.

 

[jasoncran]

a whole lotta truth with that. i hate oil, trust me. but solar power produces hazardous waste and so does any other alternate energy.

but i do believe if at all possible we should try to use the most clean methods available. as we are stewards of God's earth.

 

[stovebolts]

We could get off oil in a very, very short amount of time... But it's not going to happen as long as the worlds richest companies have a say (Exxon/Mobile, Shell). After all, it's money that makes the world go round and who has the money gets to make the rules. Exxon/Mobile and Shell both refused to carry E-85 and lobby very heavily in DC.

Ethenol (E-85) is a viable fuel source for our automobiles and could replace gasoline if, and I say if we could get the infrastructue in place, and by that I mean pipelines from Ethenol plants to distribution sites. GM lobbied the Bush administration on this for years and they were moving forward as the federal budget allowed. All they needed was the funding for these shovel ready projects for the pipelines to be put in which would have made E-85 readily available and very affordable. By affordable I've been told under $1 a gallon.

As a shovel ready project, why aren't we building the infustucture for E-85 with all this "Simulus" money?
When was the last time you heard a commercial for E-85, let alone hydrogen?.... Think about it.

Now the big buzz is the Electric car. The Volt in particular. BTW, I'd love to have the Volt, but honestly, I can't afford it and neither can the majority of car owners. Not only can I not afford $40,000 for a car, but if I could, I probably wouldn't get a Volt. Honestly, the CTS Caddilac is a pretty sweet car ;) BTW, I heard that they are only going to produce 10,000 Volts next year. We'll see how long this lasts.

But I do wonder where the Volt plays in the grander scheme of things. First off, it's an Electric car, which means it's plugged into the grid, which means it's tied to Cap and Trade. Secondly, it's not an affordable car, so it will make little to no dent on our dependancy to oil.
Lastly, the Oil industry hires thousands of highly paid workers. Each worker is taxed on their income not to mention the billions the federal government taxes the oil companies each year just for drilling etc. It would be financial suicide to loose all them great paying jobs and pinch the money syphone that goes from big oil, right to uncle sam via taxes...

So I don't see this as, "Can america get free from oil", because YES, We Can! Unfortunatly, "He" won't.

 

[jasoncran]

We could get off oil in a very, very short amount of time... But it's not going to happen as long as the worlds richest companies have a say (Exxon/Mobile, Shell). After all, it's money that makes the world go round and who has the money gets to make the rules. Exxon/Mobile and Shell both refused to carry E-85 and lobby very heavily in DC.

Ethenol (E-85) is a viable fuel source for our automobiles and could replace gasoline if, and I say if we could get the infrastructue in place, and by that I mean pipelines from Ethenol plants to distribution sites. GM lobbied the Bush administration on this for years and they were moving forward as the federal budget allowed. All they needed was the funding for these shovel ready projects for the pipelines to be put in which would have made E-85 readily available and very affordable. By affordable I've been told under $1 a gallon.

As a shovel ready project, why aren't we building the infustucture for E-85 with all this "Simulus" money?
When was the last time you heard a commercial for E-85, let alone hydrogen?.... Think about it.

Now the big buzz is the Electric car. The Volt in particular. BTW, I'd love to have the Volt, but honestly, I can't afford it and neither can the majority of car owners. Not only can I not afford $40,000 for a car, but if I could, I probably wouldn't get a Volt. Honestly, the CTS Caddilac is a pretty sweet car ;) BTW, I heard that they are only going to produce 10,000 Volts next year. We'll see how long this lasts.

But I do wonder where the Volt plays in the grander scheme of things. First off, it's an Electric car, which means it's plugged into the grid, which means it's tied to Cap and Trade. Secondly, it's not an affordable car, so it will make little to no dent on our dependancy to oil.
Lastly, the Oil industry hires thousands of highly paid workers. Each worker is taxed on their income not to mention the billions the federal government taxes the oil companies each year just for drilling etc. It would be financial suicide to loose all them great paying jobs and pinch the money syphone that goes from big oil, right to uncle sam via taxes...

So I don't see this as, "Can america get free from oil", because YES, We Can! Unfortunatly, "He" won't.

jeff, i can see and no why you say that, but have you taken notice that the oil company bp is the largest producer of solar power in spain?

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Jason,
Actually, I didn't know that BP was the biggest producer of solar panels in spain, but I knew they were very supportive of alternative energy sources such as solar and wind. In regard to E-85, they embraced the idea and offered it at many of their stations.

As far as solar panels, I was ready several months ago the breakthrough in technology on solar panels. These aint the solar panels of the 70's. Good stuff for sure!

As the third largest economic company in the world just below Shell, I was surprised to find their eagerness to jump into the alternative energy field. What amazed me even more was their gasoline. By that I mean this. I drive just under 100 miles a day, sometimes a bit more. As such, I watch my mpg pretty close and when I consistantly use BP gasoline, I average right around 28 mpg. When I use Mobile or Marathon, I get around 26.5. This doesn't sound like a big difference, but at the end of the month those nickles add up when you take into consideration the miles I drive each day.

But for me, it really raises the question. Why would a gasoline company put an additive in their gasoline that resulted in a more effecient fuel? I can only conclude that BP is serious about alternative energy sources, including Solar Panels.

Do you use Solar energy Jason?

 

[Vic C.]

Being as honest as I can; we can and we must! We should have taken the steps years ago! C'mon on! This isn't a "one world government" issue; this is common sense and is inline with one of the very first commands given to us by God Himself. Dominion over all the earth = proper stewardship and so far we miss the mark big time and some Christians are the worst of the lot.

Sometimes I just don't get it. We have as our strength the Spirit of the Almighty Creator of the universe. We are told this:

Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

But we point fingers at the adversary and are willing to just hand it all over to him, instead of ignoring the conspiracy theories like the Lord told us to do.

Isa 8:12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.

It all reminds me of a line in a Counting Crows song:

Round here we talk just like lions
But we sacrifice just like lambs

Anyway, bout BP, this has been a most unfortunate turn of events for them. I don't claim to know what was behind the accident nor do I care to entertain the idea it was no accident at all. It happened and now we have to deal with it. I do know that for the longest time, they were the only major oil company who did not get their crude oil from OPEC.

I also do know they've had an interest in alternatives for a while. It makes sense; if you are in the business of creating energy, your sights shouldn't be so narrow. It's too bad though; there is already talk about them being bought out by Exxon/Mobil! :o :o

 

[handy]

It's too bad though; there is already talk about them being bought out by Exxon/Mobil! :o :o

Gee, how wonderful. We all know that Exxon has such a stellar record when it comes to oil spills.

 

[stovebolts]

It's all politics Vic...

In 1994, Chrysler had more e-85 cars than everyone else combined in 2006. What Chrysler didn't have is leverage and lobbiest in DC to fight their cause.

In 2004 or thereabouts GM started lobbying DC for not only Ethenol, but hydrogen fuel cells too.
It was about that time E-85 pumps started popping up. Now, most of them are shut down...

By 2008 how many commercials did GM put out regarding E-85 and Hydrogen? Simple, more than we can count. They were plastered on every station. Do you remember all the commercials from GM on "Flex Fuel"? Hey, when's the last time you saw one of those commercials?....
What changed?

And no, I'm not talking conspiracy. I'm talking business and politics.

 

[jasoncran]

no, solar panels in spain are done, if you read the link i posted on that.

because the govt stopped subsudising them.but the question remains.to be fair some oil co are wanting to make some money while going green, nothing wrong with that. so we should encourage those that do just that by buying gas from them. btw i still buy gas from bp, and i need to let that station know about bp solar as most dont know.

if it ecomomical and feasible then why must the govt subsdize solar panels? surely the billions from oil could be used to pay for some of that r&D.

i will comment on e-85. but one thing i do know on e-85. you cant run a car that isnt made with flex-fuel in mind, the fuel pump fails if isnt made for it, but the fix is easy, replace the pump with newer one and all will be well.

jeff, heres the problem with e-85 we havent gone to straight ethanol nor have we reduced the other side of oil use by cars(engine and powertrain).

 

[Vic C.]

Jason, I first saw this on PBS a couple of years ago. It's about a supermarket chain, Whole Foods, and their partial conversion from conventional grid power to solar and BP had a lot to do with it.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... 0ac4b22e0a

Now, a host of companies offering to install the systems for free are cropping up all over NJ. You pay them for the energy you use. So far, everyone wins.

It's even a growing movement in the Christian arena in NJ.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=churches ... 983b1bd6d7

We can't wait for the government or big business to make this happen. They show no real interest in being responsible anyway.

 

[jasoncran]

oh i can get solar panels easily here if need be, but i much rather get the best way to save money solar water heating! it fl its hot! we can use the sun to work for us on that,as if i switch to solar alone i cant increase power flow without batteries to store for those heat waves, or if raining and output is low and batteries is depleted i can remain on fpl and do both.but to be real its not cheap at present for me to do both.

i will focus on water heating. btw what solar power electicity i dont use i can sell back to fpl.

and we should try nuke power, as in the large cities that will be the most effective means to reduce the coal consumption.

 

[stovebolts]

If we had more sun in Mi, I'd love to go with a set of solar panels.
Been thinking seriously about wind though... My Electric bill was just over $200 last month :gah ...

Until last year, you couldn't sell any electricity back to the grid, so if you had wind or solar and you were putting it back on the grid you weren't compensated for it. With the new laws in effect, now they have to purchase excess electricity from wind or Solar

This makes wind very attractive where I live

But I did make my very own solar heater for winter time and it didn't do half bad. Jason, a solar water heater should be a cakewalk for you to build, and I'll bet you could build in in a day.

 

[jasoncran]

to survive a cat 2 or 3 hurricane, i need to have it up to code, and i dont have any windows in the garage. so its got to be on the roof.