Bible Study "Cannot do anything good enough..." - "Sheep

[Orion]

This has always bothered me.

Yesterday (Sunday), the pastor brought up Revelation where "Jesus separates the 'sheep from the goats' and tells the 'sheep' that he was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty and you gave me drink. . . . etc. . . and the people said, when did we see you hungry. . .thursty. . etc. . . and Jesus says, as you have done it to the least of these, my brothers, you have done it unto me."

Literally the next thing the pastor starts to talk about is how nothing we do is good enough to get us into Heaven, but only through the gift of God, Jesus.

Now, I have to wonder why [then] there is the story of "the sheep and the goats" if nothing we do. . . . and nothing we don't do. . . .is what gets us into Heaven? :-?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Re: "Cannot do anything good enough..." - "Sh

This has always bothered me.

Yesterday (Sunday), the pastor brought up Revelation where "Jesus separates the 'sheep from the goats' and tells the 'sheep' that he was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty and you gave me drink. . . . etc. . . and the people said, when did we see you hungry. . .thursty. . etc. . . and Jesus says, as you have done it to the least of these, my brothers, you have done it unto me."

Literally the next thing the pastor starts to talk about is how nothing we do is good enough to get us into Heaven, but only through the gift of God, Jesus.

Now, I have to wonder why [then] there is the story of "the sheep and the goats" if nothing we do. . . . and nothing we don't do. . . .is what gets us into Heaven? :-?

Hi Orion,
I just re-read that passage. The first thing that I noticed is that it speaks of nations, not individual people.

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats:

I can't offer much more than speculation beyond that. I suppose that when the day comes when there is a new heaven and a new earth, the nations will find themselves a bit rearranged as well.

Eternal rewards are given to believers and are contingent on how obedient they are. Eternal punishment is also measured in degrees.

Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes]. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[Orion]

The two thoughts just don't seem to mesh together, and that causes me confusion as to which way a person is to go.

 

[Fnerb]

While I can do nothing to add to my salvation, that doesn't mean that my Heavenly Father is not pleased when I, in faith, do the good works that he has planned for me to do.

And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him. (Colossians 3:17)

Perhaps the goats are in part what are referenced in Hebrews 11:6?

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

 

[Orion]

But there are two implications to this topic. Either your salvation is because you accept Jesus, and works don't play a role, or works are still a requirement regardless of whether or not you accept Jesus.

1. You are saved by accepting Jesus. The "sheep and the goats" thing makes no sense here, then, because rather than saying, "I was hungry, thirsty, naked, etc. . . . ", he should say, "I offered the gift of salvation and you accepted it. Enter into your rest." And those who don't, he will say, "I never knew you."

2. The "sheep and the goats" is the way it will happen, and whether or not you have accepted Jesus, you may or may not enter into rest because you would have had to feed, clothe, etc "the least of these" before entrance into Heaven, and your acceptance isn't as important.

3. The "sheep and the goats" analogy is only for Christians, meaning that regardless of your acceptance, your lack of works will send you to Hell anyway.

4. The "sheep and the goats" analogy is for everyone and acceptance of Jesus doesn't determine entrance into Heaven, so even an unaccepted person can enter in.

As I see it, these two notions, acceptance of Jesus or "sheep and goats" are incompatible with each other. Either you are saved by acceptance of Jesus, or by works, because those who have never accepted Jesus can enter Heaven by doing what was "to the least of them".

 

[Fnerb]

This will not be an answer to your question per-say...

The #1 hermenutic I feel is to let scripture interpret scripture. In doing so, you cannot let an interpretation of scripture that may be "unclear" go against scripture that is clearly stated.

In this case we have salvation based off of works.

There are very clear passages that state my salvation is based off of nothing I do, have done, or will ever do:

Romans 4:4-8
Ephesians 2:8-9

This however does not mean that works are not a part of faith. We are told about these in Galations 5. However, we are also clearly told that the work for our entrance into heaven was done on the cross.

 

[protos]

Orion, the sheep and goats are the people who were saved and damned. He is telling them what they did that is evidence to them regarding their eternal end. James 2:18: "But someone will say, 'You have faith; I have deeds.' Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do."

You can think of salvation on the grand scale according to the Bible this way:

Faith -> Love -> Repentance (good works)

Faith and Love: proof to God
Repentance: proof to men


Paul's point-of-view is a lot of the times God's (nobody seeks God, salvation by faith, etc)

The non-Pauline epistles are more man-oriented. Although Paul does have a lot of man-oriented verses, especially in his teaching of Christian living, the epistles such as James, etc explain salvation in terms of what people will see.

 

[cyberjosh]

Re: "Cannot do anything good enough..." - "Sh

This has always bothered me.

Yesterday (Sunday), the pastor brought up Revelation where "Jesus separates the 'sheep from the goats' and tells the 'sheep' that he was hungry and you fed me, I was thirsty and you gave me drink. . . . etc. . . and the people said, when did we see you hungry. . .thursty. . etc. . . and Jesus says, as you have done it to the least of these, my brothers, you have done it unto me."

Literally the next thing the pastor starts to talk about is how nothing we do is good enough to get us into Heaven, but only through the gift of God, Jesus.

Now, I have to wonder why [then] there is the story of "the sheep and the goats" if nothing we do. . . . and nothing we don't do. . . .is what gets us into Heaven? :-?

How I see the root issue manifesting itself here is that works grow out of inward realities: a.k.a. genuine faith will produce good works. Now in Revelation Jesus says to each of the 7 Churches as the first words out of his mouth "I know your works...". Now in the OT God would base his judgements off of people's works, and would start with those external things (condemning them for it) but God would often go on and say something to the effect of "because you have not turned from your iniquities and the council of your heart has remained dark and you have not returned to you God..." etc, etc (explaining its root). God would always attibute their evil deeds with an unrepentant and evil heart, and explain the root of their behavior (often presenting them with an additional, gracious offer & opportunity to repent so that they will not be judged). You can easily see this theme when God makes the distinction between those merely circumcised in flesh and those who are truely circumcised in heart (inwardly), thus those who do wickedly show evidence that their heart is still uncircumcised.

The works always take root from something inside the person, and Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits." That goes both ways for the wicked and the righteous.

I hope this sheds some light on your inquiry.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

But there are two implications to this topic. Either your salvation is because you accept Jesus, and works don't play a role, or works are still a requirement regardless of whether or not you accept Jesus. ...

Eph 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Saved by faith. Not of works. Hold fast to that, and use it as the foundation to build on.
We are created FOR good works.

An unsaved person, no matter how hard they try, can not do works that are good enough to save them. A saved person, does good works, naturally, without even realizing it. Notice that both groups asked "When did we do that?"