Confronting the doctrine of sinless perfection with 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 and Colossians 3:5-10

[JJonas]

I don't mean to be rude, but you don't get to tell everyone else the application boundaries of the verse you quoted or who precisely qualifies as a "divisive person." @Hopeful 2 is a deeply mistaken person, but I have yet to get the sense that s/he is just trolling to cause a ruckus and disagreement. If I do get that sense, then I'll cease discussion. But that sense is something I come to myself, not something you get to dictate to me.

Sorry if it looked like that I tried to dictated something on you. That wasn't my intention. I agree with you that we didn't see Hopeful 2 trying to cause division; I should have more clearly stated that the part of this verse that I believed to be relevant for our case was about how to deal with incorrigibility. Similarly, Matt 18:15-17 also deals with incorrigibility in a different case (not from divisive people but from offensive people).

In my experience, when folks criticize others, very often it is criticism of the very thing of which they are guilty. It's called projection. It happens a lot.

You'll notice, though, that I wrote "may," leaving room for it not to be the case that you are projecting.

True, projections exist. And if you caught me doing the same as what I am criticizing others, then I would thank you in advance for correcting me! However, if you are merely making unfounded insinuations, based on a rule of thumb, then you are not going to be helpful! Where I live, there is an area, where we can often see African people dealing drugs. Let's say I am walking in this area and I see a black man there. Do you think it would be fair to call him a drug dealer based on the rule of thumb “we can often see African people dealing drugs here”, even though this man didn't show any suspect behavior?

I've been a discipler of men for thirty years, a high school teacher and the chief instructor of a martial arts school. All of these teaching roles have taught me that, perhaps more than anything else, repetition is vital to learning. And the more set in one way of thinking a person is, the more repetition is required to alter that thinking. So, I don't think of discussion with @Hopeful 2 as going in circles but merely the necessary repeating of the truth in order that understanding might occur.

You experience qualifies when you are teaching people that listen to you in order to learn from you (or at least know that you know better than them). This is not the case with Hopeful 2. He either wants the opposite to happen (that you learn from him), or he knows that this is not going to happen, but enjoy contradicting people, maybe even losing your time.

This doesn't mean God in His own time might do something with the content of the discussion in @Hopeful's mind and heart. I don't need to see "movement" in others in order to be faithful in speaking the truth to them. Every pastor alive understands this.

You already did your job. I believe it to be biblical to move on when you have to deal with incorrigible people. Or do you have a different biblical understanding? Do you believe you have a mission to try to correct Hopeful 2? What about investing your time serving God and people in real life? I believe, you would bring more fruits for God's glory.

In the case of confronting false teaching, the learning can only be one way. I can't yield the truth and accede to @Hopeful's error. So, my discussion with @Hopeful isn't of the sort where there's a give-and-take of truth.

It's true. But unlike in a church setting, no one in this forum has more spiritual authority than others. No one can address false teachings like a shepherd in a church can do. On the contrary, we are all debating at eye level. But you are right that there should be no expectation to learn from people bringing false teachings. However these people don't see it like that. They believe that all people here should learn from them.

This doesn't mean I shouldn't contend for the truth with him. Both Christ and Paul spent much time in Jewish synagogues doing just this.

True, but they didn't do that ad eternam:

Acts 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Acts 19:9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

And you're entirely free to leave off talking with @Hopeful whenever you feel you should. But this is true for me, too.

Yes every one is free to talk to whoever he wants, as long as it is according to the forum rules.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You experience qualifies when you are teaching people that listen to you in order to learn from you (or at least know that you know better than them). This is not the case with Hopeful 2. He either wants the opposite to happen (that you learn from him), or he knows that this is not going to happen, but enjoy contradicting people, maybe even losing your time.

My only hope is that all men will come to repentance from sin, so they can love God with all their heart, soul, and mind...and love their neighbors as they love themselves.
Those are things that sinners don't do.