Couple Fined For Bible Study

[Lewis]

California Couple Fined for Bible Meetings in Their Own House

The city of San Juan Capistrano, California is laying heavy fines on a local couple for hosting semi-regular bible readings in their home. From the Los Angeles CBS affiliate:
Homeowners Chuck and Stephanie Fromm, of San Juan Capistrano, were fined $300 earlier this month for holding what city officials called “a regular gathering of more than three peopleâ€.
That type of meeting would require a conditional use permit as defined by the city, according to Pacific Justice Institute (PJI), the couple’s legal representation.
The Fromms also reportedly face subsequent fines of $500 per meeting for any further “religious gatherings†in their home, according to PJI…
After city officials rejected the Fromms’ appeal, PJI, which represents other Bible study participants, will appeal the decision to the California Superior Court in Orange County…
Neighbors have written letters to the city in support of the Fromms, whom they said have not caused any disturbances with the meetings, according to PJI.
The city attorney says the meetings have attracted “up to 50 people.†He claims the meetings are held Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons, which would mean gross revenue of $1,000 a week for a city where the utilities agencies alone run at a deficit more than a third the size of their total budget, and whose finances are being subject to lengthy and expensive audits.
Here is a handy timeline [pdf] of the city’s campaign against the Fromms’ bible readings at chuckfromm.net.
Pacific Justice Institute president Brad Dacus notes the irony of the city’s violation of the First Amendment’s guarantee of religious expression in a city that was founded as a mission by Junipero Serra and is best known for a quasi-religious legend about cliff swallows. “In a city so rich with religious history and tradition, this is particularly egregious,†Dacus says in a PJI statement. “An informal gathering in a home cannot be treated with suspicion by the government, or worse than any other gathering of friends, just because it is religious. We cannot allow this to happen in America, and we will fight as long and as hard as it takes to restore this group’s religious freedom.â€

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/money/california-couple-fined-bible-meetings-their-own-house

 

[Lewis]

This is secular law going crazy, these stupid people don't know that this country was built by Christians.

 

[Lewis]

You mean to tell me that nobody has nothing to say about our brother and sister in trouble with the establishment. In their own home over Bible Study ?

 

[tim-from-pa]

This is the first I saw this post, otherwise I would have answered sooner. I suspect this is the same incident that was brought up earlier either on these forums or on another I visit. And I also suspect the issue is not about bible study, per se, but extra cars on the streets and thus being fined for "zoning" issues.

Not that I think this is right, because I'll bet the farm and livestock that if it was a big beer party with young girls there, they probably would not have been fined, and maybe the bureaucrats would have even crashed the party and had fun with them.

So, I say, don't let news like this about home bible study bother you. If such laws tend to fine such people, then as I say just throw a big beer party upstairs with lots of underage 20-year-old girls dancing and while the middle-aged, fat bureaucrats make a fool of themselves dancing with them while having the bible study in the basement right under their noses. They would not be the wiser ---- that's abut the mentality of most in government, whether they be local, state or federal.

I suspect that the ones holding the bible study were not secretive or discrete enough for this crooked generation. If one is secretive enough, they won't know what's going on.

 

[handy]

Tim, every time this story surfaces, I'm gonna follow you on the thread and gently correct the idea that this is about parking. (Me gently correcting Tim ) Besides, I know why you want to use the tactic you're putting forth...you want to join the beer party! HA!



Seriously, This couple has a large lot and all parking for their Bible study is done on their own property. The neighbors have come out to state that there were no traffic or noise issues in the neighborhood due to the Bible Study.

Let's let the city itself define why it's fining the Fromm's:

The Fromms’ citations say they violated section 9-3.301 of the Capistrano Municipal Code, which prohibits “religious, fraternal or non-profit†organizations in residential neighborhoods without a conditional-use permit. The footnote on the section says it “Includes churches, temples, synagogues, monasteries, religious retreats, and other places of religious worship and other fraternal and community service organizations.â€

Read more: The Capistrano Dispatch - Capistrano Couple in Legal Battle for Hosting Bible Study in Home
​

Basically, the City has decided that the Fromm's Bible Study is a church and are targeting them for the conditional use permits which would net the city...well, what did the city attorney say?

"The city attorney says the meetings have attracted “up to 50 people.†He claims the meetings are held Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons, which would mean gross revenue of $1,000 a week for a city where the utilities agencies alone run at a deficit more than a third the size of their total budget, and whose finances are being subject to lengthy and expensive audits."

So, as ususal, we follow the money. The city is strapped for cash...find out about this Bible Study...decides that the city (not the people, but the city) is going to define the group as a church and then stick their hand out for cash.

In effect, the city is "establishing" the church here. Hmmm, the Constitution states:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

And the Supreme Court has decided that all branches of government, including schools and cities must follow this, so basically the city is violating both sides of the fence...establishing a church and prohibiting the free exercise of religion for those who want to study the Bible outside of an established church.

 

[tim-from-pa]

And what I was trying to convey, Handy, in my usually off-beat humor is would they do the same thing if say, there was a party, of maybe a bunch of guys getting together for that big football game in front of the large screen TV? How do you think that law could be interpreted?

If so, then this is not a religious issue, but an assembling issue.

But if they would not say anything, then it is a religious issue. And again, if so, that could be denied, as to admit that they know what's going on inside (when it could just as easily be a football game) is as much as an intrusive, meddling admission that they are watching inside your house when there's more important things to be done. In other words, whether the people gather for bible study or a football game is irrelavant to all the other outdoor and objective facts ---- the effect is the same, so what one judges on one has to be on the other.

And since fat, middle-aged bureaucrats probably do like to dance with 20-year-old girls, they are not going to curtail a big beer party or a football gathering as well because to do so would be to limit what they themselves probably do. That's my point.

 

[Chuck_Taylor]

lets get real. I live in the city so I know whats going on here. A meeting caused someones parking spot to get taken. They got home and slammed their steering wheel because their spot was taken. Finnaly someone or someones annoying nosy spouse called the authorities. I've had neighbors try to get me in trouble for parking in my own driveway because it inconvenienced their turn around path routine.

 

[Lewis]

Chuck are you saying that you live in the same city where this is going on ?