Cremation or Burial

[Drew]

IGod is not resurrecting our physical earthly bodies,.....

I am not sure what you mean. It is true that we are not resurrected into the same faulty, decay-stricken bodies we inhabit now.

But our resurrection bodies will certainly be bodies! There can be no doubt of this in light of Paul's argument of 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[jasoncran]

I am not sure what you mean. It is true that we are not resurrected into the same faulty, decay-stricken bodies we inhabit now.

But our resurrection bodies will certainly be bodies! There can be no doubt of this in light of Paul's argument of 1 Corinthians 15.

i dont think we will have the same exact body that dies when we are raised. that is what i think he means.

 

[Drew]

i dont think we will have the same exact body that dies when we are raised. that is what i think he means.

Indeed - I am aware that this is what he might mean.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe we may have a fundamental disagreement on a critical matter of theology.

I am quite confident of the following: The scriptures teach that the ultimate destiny of "saved" human beings is an embodied one. In other words, we will have bodies. How can there be any doubt about this? We are told we will have a body like the resurrection body of Jesus. And that is most decidedly a "physical" thing, at least in the sense that we will have arms, legs, heads, etc. Granted, our physicality will be a transformed and perfected physicality.

But we will have bodies - this notion of our final state being one of "spirit" is entirely unBiblical.

Now, to be fair, I am not sure that you are embracing this error of believing in a "spirit-only" characterization of the final state of the redeemed human.

Now the connection of this to the matter of cremation is a separate, but related issue. For now, I will not repeat my earlier arguments; I will merely re-assert my belief that conventional burial is the better choice (not because being cremated prevents bodily resurrection, but rather because of the misleading message cremation sends to the rest of the world).

There is not much of an argument nor a debate unless you do not believe in scripture or at the least interpret it with a logical mind.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

All things of heaven are spirit or spiritual not flesh and blood.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

It would seem it is our spirit that will be raised as this flesh will turn to dust once again. God can not see our flesh because of our sins nor can he hear the prayers of a sinner.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Free]

There is not much of an argument nor a debate unless you do not believe in scripture or at the least interpret it with a logical mind.

1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

All things of heaven are spirit or spiritual not flesh and blood.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

It would seem it is our spirit that will be raised as this flesh will turn to dust once again. God can not see our flesh because of our sins nor can he hear the prayers of a sinner.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshiper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Actually, the Bible is quite clear that we will enter eternity with glorified bodies, the same as Christ who is the firstfruit, and not be disembodied spirits.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have not fished in the Allegheny around the Lancaster area in about 13 or 14 years.

We are located in NE Pa, and the river is so beautiful. Can't wait till summer so we can get back out on it. I do not know how to post a pic here or I would put in a pic of the river.

 

[Mike]

Actually, the Bible is quite clear that we will enter eternity with glorified bodies, the same as Christ who is the firstfruit, and not be disembodied spirits.

I fully agree. This is something I've always held to and believe to be basic biblical doctrine.

1 Corinthians 15
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28738">35</sup> But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?†<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28739">36</sup> How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28740">37</sup> When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28741">38</sup> But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28742">39</sup> All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28743">40</sup> There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28744">41</sup> The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28745">42</sup> So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28746">43</sup> it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28747">44</sup> it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28748">45</sup> So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living beingâ€; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28749">46</sup> The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28750">47</sup> The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28751">48</sup> As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28752">49</sup> And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven."



As it relates to the OP, I believe God is fully capable of regenerating our bodies even if they are cremated. Cremation is something I've never given serious consideration.

 

[for_his_glory]

As it is our spirit that is going to heaven we will be raised with a glorified body, but even though scripture says it will be like Christ body we still do not know what it will look like as it could not be flesh and blood like we have now, but we can only speculate as scripture never defines what it will actually look like because we do not know what the transformed body of Jesus looked like while he was taken up to heaven. All I know is that we will all be beautiful and glorified. No more yukky scars and other imperfections 3

 

[Free]

As it is our spirit that is going to heaven we will be raised with a glorified body,

Our spirit and body form a unified whole. That is how it is now and how it will be. Try not to separate the spirit from the body when speaking of heaven.

but even though scripture says it will be like Christ body we still do not know what it will look like as it could not be flesh and blood like we have now, but we can only speculate as scripture never defines what it will actually look like because we do not know what the transformed body of Jesus looked like while he was taken up to heaven. All I know is that we will all be beautiful and glorified. No more yukky scars and other imperfections 3

And yet the disciples recognized Jesus and he showed them his scars. All that means is that we cannot say one way or the other if we will have scars, be old or young, thin, or whatever.

Luke 24:39, "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (NKJV)

Clearly Jesus had flesh and bones (no reason to think he didn't also have blood) with his glorified body, so we must be careful when speaking of "flesh and blood" as there are some nuances with meaning.

 

[Drew]

Clearly Jesus had flesh and bones (no reason to think he didn't also have blood) with his glorified body, so we must be careful when speaking of "flesh and blood" as there are some nuances with meaning.

Agree. I am quite convinced that statements about 'flesh and blood' not being able to inherit the kingdom of God is a literary way of saying "fallen human beings" will not be able to inherit the kingdom. I do not see how it could be a denial that the end state of (saved) humans will be that of physical bodies, given what both Jesus and Paul say.

 

[Free]

Agree. I am quite convinced that statements about 'flesh and blood' not being able to inherit the kingdom of God is a literary way of saying "fallen human beings" will not be able to inherit the kingdom. I do not see how it could be a denial that the end state of (saved) humans will be that of physical bodies, given what both Jesus and Paul say.

Agreed. By saying "flesh and blood cannot inherit," I take it to mean not only unbelievers in general, but also the believer's own fallen nature and "corrupted flesh," hence the discourse on what will happen to the believer's body.

 

[Webers_Home]

.

we do not know what the transformed body of Jesus looked like while he was taken up to heaven.

Well; maybe you don't know, but I do.

†. Luke 9:27 . . But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

†. Luke 9:28-30 . . And some eight days after these sayings, it came about that he took along Peter and John and James, and went up to the mountain to pray. And while he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothing became white and gleaming.

†. Mtt 17:2 . . He was transfigured before them; and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became as white as light.

†. Luke 9:30-31 . . And behold, two men were talking with him; and they were Moses and Elijah, who, appearing in glory, were speaking of his departure which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem.

†. 2Pet 1:16-18 . . For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory: "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased" —and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain.

From that information, I can safely deduce that when the Lord returns to rule the world; he will be a human being; not some sort of heretofore unheard-of celestial being. And I can also safely deduce that those among Christians fortunate to make it to safety when they cross over to the other side, will also return with him as human beings— very shiny human beings; but nonetheless; human beings: and fully recognizable.

Some may object that the vision was of the pre-resurrected, pre-glorified Christ; but no: the vision was of the kingdom; which is beyond resurrection and glorification.

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[for_his_glory]

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Once again, flesh and blood according to scripture can not inherit the kingdom of God because it is corrupt this flesh whether dead or alive at Jesus coming has to be transformed before it can enter the kingdom of God and no where in scripture does it describe in detail what it will look like other than being a transformed form. If there is scripture please share it with me as I have never read exactly what we will look like.


Act 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Act 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

They saw Jesus being lifted up in his bodily state until the cloud consumed him, but never mentions what Jesus looked like after the cloud consumed him and they could not see him no more. No one can know for sure, but only speculate what we will look like when we are changed in a twinkling of an eye. Again if you can prove it with scripture I am always opened to learn something new.

 

[jasoncran]

the easiest answer to his , is what the church has always taught on adam ere the sin.

was adam full of illness? and or eve?

before the fall that is.

answer NO, that is what we will be restored to.