[_ Old Earth _] In the Begining

[The_Chaser]

Ever since everyone can remember, people have wondered one thing: "Where did the world come from ?" Genesis tells us God created it. But that answer just opens up a bigger question : Where did God come from?

And that question can't be answered. Because God didn't come from anywhere. He has no parents, no hometown, no birth certificate. The Bible explains it this way "Before the mountains were born, or you brought forth the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are GOD!" - Psalm 90:2

God is everlasting- infinite, with no begining and no end.We as human raise the question "Everything must have a beginning and a end" We celebrate this fact through :
-Birthdays
-Weddings
-New years day
-Funerals
-Graduations

With all this attention to beginnings and ends its hard to even contemplate that something or someone that has neither. We're only aquatinted with what is finate-infinity makes no sense at all.
Some people refuse to belive the Bible's story of creation at all. They claim that their start from the "Big Bang". But that still does not solve the mystery: No matter who or what sits at the top of your "family tree" Adam and Eve,Atom &Amoeba, or Crash and Bang- Someone started it all.

Someone named God. And at that very moment he created something else: Beginnings. So from that moment on everything in the world would have one. Even this world has an end! Yes, Jesus is coming back for us ! One day you and I will meet the Lord face to face. Is he going to say "Well done my good and faithful servant" ? If your not sure where you are going after you die, maybe it's time to get right with God.


On that I conclude - The_Chaser

 

[Justice]

Amen Chaser! Welcome to 123Christian! I look forward to reading your future posts.

God Bless!
Justice

 

[cubedbee]

Not everyone believes the universe had a beginning. Some people think there is an unending cycle of contractions and expansions of our universe. In such a belief system, there is no need for God as a First Cause.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

But there is a need for a first cause - or else the universe is going against its own law. That is what the BB theory does not offer... what the first cause is.

BL

 

[cubedbee]

What law would an eternal universe be going against? One must accept something as being eternal. This something can either be the universe, or a being outside the universe which we call God. I believe the latter, but I don't see where belief in the former is inconstent or illogical.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Energy cannot be created (nothing new is ever created, only "recycled"). Law of cause and effect (every action has a consequence and every consequence has an action). Thus, the universe itself must have a cause and it cannot be itself or from within itself.

BL

 

[cubedbee]

First, I don't think that the "Law of Cause and Effect" is universally accepted. I believe that in the world of quantum mechanics this law need not hold. Secondly, the universe is an object, not an action. I agree that matter cannot be created or destroyed. The universe is the sum of all matter. If you assume that the universe had a beginning, then this beginning is an action, and must have a cause. However, there is nothing in the law of cause and effect to say that the universe must have begun. It could just as well have existed forever. You must accept that something is uncaused. Logically, you can either assume it was the universe or God that was uncaused.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

No, I accept that God is infinite because God is external the laws of the universe and also, if He created time, then existing before time would cause Him to not be subject to cause-effect.

I still make the argument that to say the universe is simply eternal is bunk. As I said, every action has a previous action to cause the latter and the same can be said of the universe. However... I am not a physics expert and do not pretend to be one; so I am eagerly awaiting a more mathematically talented person than myself to take up this proposition of an eternal universe which just continues to be (which still doesn't answer the question "how?").

BL

 

[Barbarian]

BL is right.

An eternal universe is inconsistent with observed phenomena. We can observe that all the galaxies in the universe are moving away from all the other galaxies (neglecting a small amount of local motion). If the universe had always been like this, all the other galaxies would be an infinite distance from ours.

Some postulate that something is creating new galaxies as old ones move out, but there's no observable phenomena capable of doing that. Even more so, an infinite number of galaxies would mean an infinite amount of radiation reaching the earth. The universe would be unbearably bright.

The evidence indicates a universe that originated at a time in the distant past.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Appreciated, Barb. Hey, how are your classes going this semester (or half, either way you cut it)?

BL

 

[xsearnold]

I heard J.P. Moreland use the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics to demonstrate why scientists believe the universe had a beginning. If I'm paraphrasing this correctly, any closed system (I suppose the premise is that the universe is one) that has been in existence for an infinite amount of time would have reached equilibrium and no longer be losing heat energy. Since we know the universe is still experiencing this entropy, it cannot have existed infinitely long, thus it had a beginning.

Is this a valid line of reasoning?

At this point, I'm beginning to think "infinity" means the number of times I have to re-login to post a message on this site! Does anyone else have this problem?

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Nope, have you tried clicking the "Automatically Log Me In" radio button when you first log-in? If that isn't working, email Drake or Logan about it and see if they know an answer.

Your friendly, neighborhood mod,

BL

 

[Barbarian]

BL, things are going pretty well this year. We're doing contour maps and constructing landforms from reading maps right now. The room is filled with scraps of cardboard.

Picture 30 kids with boxcutters. (no serious injuries so far)

 

[evanman]

I think you'll find that the common answer from most believers is this_"God didn't come from anywhere, He has ALWAYS existed. There has never been a time when he did not exist, and there will never be atime when he ceases to exist!"

 

[Wertbag]

There are several questions which neither science nor religion have the answer to. For example how big is the universe? If it is finite, what is it contained within? Theres an impossible thought, we can't imagine the infinite, but how could the universe have an edge?
One theory I heard which is probably just as impossible to confirm was that if you continued in one direction away from earth eventually you would come up from the opposite direction. In other words the universe loops on itself. Funny idea, but probably just a wild thought to avoid thinking of infinite space.

 

[cubedbee]

I don't think its that funny of an idea. The earth is a 3-D sphere, but we move only in 2-D on its surface (for all intents and purposes). You can start off at any point of the globe, and if you continue in a straight line you will come back to your starting point from the opposite direction. The universe could just as easily be a gigantic 4-D globe, with us being confined to movement on its 3-D "surface".