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Using The Bible As A Dictionary

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I transported this from casual conversations for a reason .
I don't know that I have a favorite. I can say that Hebrews used to drive me crazy until I studied more of the OT in depth. Then Hebrews became a window into a more complete understanding of God's work from the beginning. How the before the cross and the after the cross are one story. His story.
The reason for the post transport (?).
In post 11 I left off Hebrews 1 that so well orders the way God speaks. I left off angels and prophets bearing messages. I also missed carefully ranking the priority of those he has deliver the messages. Someone with a little better handle on Hebrews might do a much better job. The 1828 Webster dictionary actually preaches some (maybe not perfectly). I sure know my use of symbolism is incomplete / imperfect.

Maybe a bible study on Hebrews would help.

eddif
 
Our good brothers and sisters tend to be ignorant of the fact that the dictionary itself is comprised of definitions based on what the author thinks the words mean based on scriptures. They are not actual real Greek and Hebrew studies of the actual ancient language not tainted with mans understanding and doctrine.
When you say "dictionary," to what are you referring, exacly?

Context in what the Word is saying trumps man's idea and doctrine on what they think the Word means. When we attempt to elevate mans understanding and not the teaching of the Holy Spirit, then it causes confusion and lack of understanding.
Thinking of this sort is precisely one of the reasons the Church is in the mess it is in. Not only are your points unbiblical, this simply is not the way proper understanding of Scripture is to be found, provided I've understood you correctly, and I think I have.
 
koine greek, uhm and Hebrew of that era can be studied. the Hebrew isn't taught without the tanach. they use that to teach the vowels.the iliads is written in that. so let us not say that those languages are lost.
 
When you say "dictionary," to what are you referring, exacly?


Thinking of this sort is precisely one of the reasons the Church is in the mess it is in. Not only are your points unbiblical, this simply is not the way proper understanding of Scripture is to be found, provided I've understood you correctly, and I think I have.

I have seen how you understand Scripture Free, appears you yourself are still trying to figure things out.
 
I have seen how you understand Scripture Free, appears you yourself are still trying to figure things out.
It's never truly done alone but it most certainly is done with lexicons and such, and proper hermeneutics.
 
It's never truly done alone but it most certainly is done with lexicons and such, and proper hermeneutics.

My beef was with the Thayer's and Strongs. Also even with the super correct secular definition of a bible word, no doctrine added, it still does not convey the context of the scripture.

God had introduced some things and revealed some things to the Church that language did not exactly cover properly. It's why some folks think our spirit is just God breathing life into us, and not that we are actual spirits.

That was my point Free.
 
On dictionaries (of which I am no expert):

It is interesting to read the 1828 dictionary definitions written by Noah Webster. Someone reading King. James will have help understanding some of those strange words we are not using today
Some might be interested in the history of the 1828 dictionary. It does give bible references at times.

eddif
You're right and when I ask anyone to use any Webster I get dressed down for being ignorant and not just by the kids.
 
My beef was with the Thayer's and Strongs. Also even with the super correct secular definition of a bible word, no doctrine added, it still does not convey the context of the scripture.

God had introduced some things and revealed some things to the Church that language did not exactly cover properly. It's why some folks think our spirit is just God breathing life into us, and not that we are actual spirits.

That was my point Free.
And I'll bet that you, like I, have beat your brains out trying to get people to pray read and to meditate on the Word, that the Holy Spirit can use all of the Word to give them wisdom.
 
And I'll bet that you, like I, have beat your brains out trying to get people to pray read and to meditate on the Word, that the Holy Spirit can use all of the Word to give them wisdom.

How did you know this? You don't expect Baptist to know these things.. Right? :)

I don't look at God's Word as "JUST" information that is good for you and can help you develop better qualities and character. No, the source of life, your life, my life and the tree in our yards was created out of our Father speaking something from faith. That universe creating Word went forth and made that tree.

So, I don't look at any scripture as written for this time, or written to David, or for this people. When David said no plague shall come neigh my dwelling, I say Father, I believe that, that is your word to David, it's true, and if I get sick 20 times, it's only because I need more understanding, not because your Word returned void. You have that in there for Us Lord. It's important, it's life, it's something You said.

Prison:
Being new baby Christian, and not having no ministers to tell me I was wrong, just reading what I could get my hands on. I tithed my 1.00 faithfully to Kenneth Copeland. I made 10.00 a month. That is how I understood it.

The commissary sold these cheap pens that never wrote more than a page before they stop writing. All the inmates had issue with them and often we go around asking if they had a pen that would write. The ink was in the tube, but the pen just stop writing. You were only allowed 1 Pen, as they also make nice weapons. So to get a pen, you would have to turn your old one in. I am not convinced they did not resale them, Not accusing, but......................

it was so frustrating to start a letter to home, and not even being able to finish half a page. Pens were 50 cents, and that is a lot of money out of 10.00 a month.

Read what God said Bill:
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Mal 3:10-11)

If you tithe, your vine shall not cast their fruit to the ground before it's time.

To me that translated.

Your pen shall not stop working before the ink is gone.

I had nobody to tell me I was not using scripture properly, it's not like we had access to a Pastor. I praise God for that.

So, I spoke over my pen, I said Pen, In Jesus name, you will use all your ink, and not be cast away before your time. I am a tither, and God promised me this.

Well............................ That did not work out so well. My pens still stopped and often times it would take a couple commissary trips to finish a few pages of a letter. 3 months of speaking over my new pen each week did not help at all.

Now I figured, it was me, I was not seeing something. So, I kept meditating on that scripture. My pens don't stop working before their time. What was the problem? I did not know at the time that head knowledge and just hoping was not being convinced. I thought I believed it, but I did not know what really believing something God said was like.

about the 3rd month I was on my way to commissary, only getting to go once a week. A new pen was on my list of course. On my way the words came up real strong in me, it was like a light was turned one. It would be hard to explain. The Lord spoke inside me real loud.

"I said, Your fruit shall not cast itself to the ground before it's time, neither shall your pens stop before their time, I told you, I would rebuke the devourer for your sake."

At that moment, the Word of God become so alive and real. I boldly went and bought my new pen, and said thank you Lord, I see it, my pen can't stop writing, it would be violating your word if it did.

That was the last pen I bought Bill. In fact, my other brothers in Christ were always wanting to borrow it. They called it "Mike's anointed pen." That pen kept writing long after i could not see ink in the tube, I can't explain how but others saw it also.

Now, the only way I have to minister to people is to say, "Take this scripture, meditate on it, your answer is here." People say, thanks, I'll look over that scripture.................. Look over the scripture.................... look over the scripture................

yea, go ahead and just look over that. That scripture will save your life and change any situation around. Believers don't value the Word, to them it's just good advice, it's not their actual answer.

No, they call for prayer, pray for me, bla, bla, bla, bla................. not even considering their life changing answer is in the book, laying on the desk. They don't value the Word enough to meditate on it, seek God on it

Sorry so long, you struck a cord in me.
 
How did you know this? You don't expect Baptist to know these things.. Right? :)

I don't look at God's Word as "JUST" information that is good for you and can help you develop better qualities and character. No, the source of life, your life, my life and the tree in our yards was created out of our Father speaking something from faith. That universe creating Word went forth and made that tree.

So, I don't look at any scripture as written for this time, or written to David, or for this people. When David said no plague shall come neigh my dwelling, I say Father, I believe that, that is your word to David, it's true, and if I get sick 20 times, it's only because I need more understanding, not because your Word returned void. You have that in there for Us Lord. It's important, it's life, it's something You said.

Prison:
Being new baby Christian, and not having no ministers to tell me I was wrong, just reading what I could get my hands on. I tithed my 1.00 faithfully to Kenneth Copeland. I made 10.00 a month. That is how I understood it.

The commissary sold these cheap pens that never wrote more than a page before they stop writing. All the inmates had issue with them and often we go around asking if they had a pen that would write. The ink was in the tube, but the pen just stop writing. You were only allowed 1 Pen, as they also make nice weapons. So to get a pen, you would have to turn your old one in. I am not convinced they did not resale them, Not accusing, but......................

it was so frustrating to start a letter to home, and not even being able to finish half a page. Pens were 50 cents, and that is a lot of money out of 10.00 a month.

Read what God said Bill:
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Mal 3:10-11)

If you tithe, your vine shall not cast their fruit to the ground before it's time.

To me that translated.

Your pen shall not stop working before the ink is gone.

I had nobody to tell me I was not using scripture properly, it's not like we had access to a Pastor. I praise God for that.

So, I spoke over my pen, I said Pen, In Jesus name, you will use all your ink, and not be cast away before your time. I am a tither, and God promised me this.

Well............................ That did not work out so well. My pens still stopped and often times it would take a couple commissary trips to finish a few pages of a letter. 3 months of speaking over my new pen each week did not help at all.

Now I figured, it was me, I was not seeing something. So, I kept meditating on that scripture. My pens don't stop working before their time. What was the problem? I did not know at the time that head knowledge and just hoping was not being convinced. I thought I believed it, but I did not know what really believing something God said was like.

about the 3rd month I was on my way to commissary, only getting to go once a week. A new pen was on my list of course. On my way the words came up real strong in me, it was like a light was turned one. It would be hard to explain. The Lord spoke inside me real loud.

"I said, Your fruit shall not cast itself to the ground before it's time, neither shall your pens stop before their time, I told you, I would rebuke the devourer for your sake."

At that moment, the Word of God become so alive and real. I boldly went and bought my new pen, and said thank you Lord, I see it, my pen can't stop writing, it would be violating your word if it did.

That was the last pen I bought Bill. In fact, my other brothers in Christ were always wanting to borrow it. They called it "Mike's anointed pen." That pen kept writing long after i could not see ink in the tube, I can't explain how but others saw it also.

Now, the only way I have to minister to people is to say, "Take this scripture, meditate on it, your answer is here." People say, thanks, I'll look over that scripture.................. Look over the scripture.................... look over the scripture................

yea, go ahead and just look over that. That scripture will save your life and change any situation around. Believers don't value the Word, to them it's just good advice, it's not their actual answer.

No, they call for prayer, pray for me, bla, bla, bla, bla................. not even considering their life changing answer is in the book, laying on the desk. They don't value the Word enough to meditate on it, seek God on it

Sorry so long, you struck a cord in me.
You call that long? You have a great testimony Mike! I am proud to say you are my brother.
 
Isn't that the dumbest thing you've ever heard? That is almost as dumb as anyone could ever get. A life example of that is taking a man or a woman out of the Bronx, NY City, placing him in rural South Alabama with one of the New Age English Dictionaries. i.e. It's pouring cats and puppy dogs, this mornin'.

Pour dumb New Yorker wants to see these pups and kittens hitting the ground, 'cause he/she ain't never seen somethin' like that afore! And people, today, grow so very irritable and will explain and sometimes yell, that's Circular Reasoning and you can't do that, when you try to explain to them that the scriptures are self interpreting but they must be read in context.

It is a lost battle before we open our mouths because, as nearly as I am able to ascertain, there is zero concept of context taught in any of our schools today, a concept required before any were allowed out of Primary School to go on to Jr. High School.

Yeah it sure is. While Strongs and so forth may help a little, it is not the end all be all of understanding. Like has been noted, it still takes meditation on the Word, and prayer and patience for the Holy Spirit to give us understanding.

It's always good to pray before reading the Word, but I have found it also to be beneficial to pray afterwards too, to ask for confirmation of my understanding of what it meant.
 
Yeah it sure is. While Strongs and so forth may help a little, it is not the end all be all of understanding. Like has been noted, it still takes meditation on the Word, and prayer and patience for the Holy Spirit to give us understanding.

It's always good to pray before reading the Word, but I have found it also to be beneficial to pray afterwards too, to ask for confirmation of my understanding of what it meant.

Scripture is not understood through mans reasoning. Scripture can only be spiritually discerned, comparing line upon line, here a little there a little, spiritual with spiritual, and taught of the Holy Spirit. Mans methods have destroyed faith in the word, and turned the living Word of God into good bed time stories, and good possibly have some good examples to follow if you wish.

Being zealous to learn college level Scripture and wanting to become a Pastor, I ordered a online course through a college. It was Methodist, Baptist, some traditional denomination.

It was only a demo course, the real stuff cost a bit of money. Just to see what things I would be learning.

First thing I noticed is a section on God not healing today as in Acts. We don't see limbs regrow, or certain cancers ever healed, and Healing is not for today but to get the church started.

Right, we walk by sight and unbelief, could be a good reason you don't see these things....... College level? Seemed to come out of the idiot room, I expected far more than this. Then I figured, not everyone knows God, give it a chance.

So, I started to read through the first sample lesson..................

It said that "hidden in God's Word, you can find some real gold nuggets that can enhance your life if you dig deep".
No JOKE.

Every Word you read is life, and health to your flesh, for reproving and doctrine. I was shocked!!! This was suppose to be College level. I picked the college because it was a major seminary for Pastors to graduate and take sheep.

The sheep are going to starve to death!!!!!!!! What is wrong with these people!!!

I realized then, if I was going to grow, I would have to be led by the Holy Spirit on who to listen to, where to go, and from the Holy Spirit get understanding.


Mike.
 
Yep. And just like scripture shows us...no one has all of the answers. We are one body, one faith, one spirit. Each a part of the one body and each with his/her own revelation and purpose.

This winds up meaning that even the best of Pastors can and will be wrong about something at some time. This doesn't make them a false prophet, it just means that they err some times. So we have to not take anyone's word for anything but search the scriptures for ourselves (like instructed) and see for ourself.

Notwithstanding the fact that if there's a, say, a 1000 person congregation, that the Lord will speak to them 1000 different ways.

Over time, I'm slowly figuring out that, words are probably the most inefficient way of communication. The Holy Spirit (or spiritual beings in general?) are likely the most efficient way to communicate...spirit to spirit.
 
Story:

In the early years of my marriage, when very much love was still present, my and my wife were pretty much telepathic. We could exchange thoughts & information with a glance. We could be talking to each other, and one of have a different thought about something else other than what we were discussing, and change the subject in conversation without speaking the conversation a different direction.

Some times we would sit and look into each others eyes and without a word being spoken, converse with each other, I kid you not, true story.

You Brothers and Sisters that are married should try this sometime. It's the love that connects and converses.
 
Story:

In the early years of my marriage, when very much love was still present, my and my wife were pretty much telepathic. We could exchange thoughts & information with a glance. We could be talking to each other, and one of have a different thought about something else other than what we were discussing, and change the subject in conversation without speaking the conversation a different direction.

Some times we would sit and look into each others eyes and without a word being spoken, converse with each other, I kid you not, true story.

You Brothers and Sisters that are married should try this sometime. It's the love that connects and converses.

Wife and I hear God all the time on the same things. She is my Help meet. She can also talk to God to like have me call, or clean something without fussing with me. I'll just get this urge inside to go clean this, or do that, not knowing I am a puppet, but instead of butting heads with me, I am led to believe it's me that wants to clean and do these things. It's really my Father.

I feel you on this Edward.
 
IPhysical pen vs spiritual pen.

To adequately describe the spiritual the physical usually comes first.

The word written in our heart is the kingdom reality. An inward peace in the midst of a storm. The storm still exists in the flesh, but the peace of God passes all understanding.

The mind of Christ exists in our new mind. The mind understands all the work Christ Jesus did for us. IMHO the mind is where we do not just eat bread alone but eat Word.
OK
John's Baptism - repentance - word written in new heart of flesh. We confess our sins and look forward to a savior.

Jesus's baptism - eternal forgiveness of sins. Belief in the shed blood of Christ Jesus:

Holy Spirit baptism - power to witness to others.

If you get convicted of sins, what would be wrong with using a dictionary to look up all those unknown words in the sin list. After all; the Holy Spirit experience was explained seperately. Oh all the screams.

What baptism were you baptized into. John's baptism ? Jesus's baptism when you believed?

Did you have the Holy Spirit baptism explained, after you believed? I mean does your group believe in reading the experiences separately, and the unity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit also. The Godhead is both individual and corporate (terrible non bible thoughts. (?).

I seldom read anything other than the bible. Well? Maybe I get biology books down to look for symbolism Romans 1:19-20

What happens that Gentiles (being without the Law) do the very things contained in the law? The Gentiles received Holy Spirit just like the Jewish circumcision party. An ox is a preacher
I Corinthians 9:9 area.

The treasures of the Gentiles are not just money / gold / silver / etc.
More screams. Melchisedec was a Gentile.

Wisdom is feminine (?). There is so much to investigate. If I speak in tongues (spiritual gift, biology, Greek, etc.) and no one interprets, and no one understands, do I just quit? Personally I will continue in private to speak in tongues, interpret and if a dictionary or web search is handy I will look for confirming evidences (body, soul, and Spirit). Getting an ox to be a preacher takes a lot.

All of it is not about me. Christ working in us is the reality.

I am for us and not against us. Help me cross the rubble patches.

eddif
 
Luke 2:52
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

Body / soul / Spirit
Jesus knew the traditions of the elders that undid the Word.

Then there were the probable Greek language studies (mind). The will - study of the Fathers will. Emotions trained in compassion. Jesus increased in statute (body).

Spiritual training of his senses,allowed him to sense the power go out when the woman with the issue of blood touched his garment.

Word of knowledge allowed him to know others thoughts. Healing was in his ability.

We doing greater works are called to a greater world population.

Redneck Mississippi folks barely understand all this.
eddif
 

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