vic C. said:
Vic, maybe we are having a disagreement with word meanings.
Luke 16
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
First, what happened? Two med died. Their bodies were buried, as is normal for dead bodies: "and was buried." Now note what comes next: "in hell he lift up his eyes..." Who is lifing up "his" eyes? The bible says, "he" and "His" and who or what ever it is, has eyes, and can see! Ok, we know the body is dead, so it must be either the soul or the spirit. It cannot be the body, and I would challenge anyone to find eyes, and understanding in "breath." Also we note that this entity has understanding, and memory. We also note that spirits can speak. I say it is the "spirit," and if I understand, you are saying it is the soul. You quoted a verse from Eccl. to prove your point.
My question to you is, what will you do with all the New Testament verses that seem to disagree with the verse in Eccl?
1 Peter 3
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Who or what did Jesus preach to in hell? It is written, "the spirits."
Hebrews 12
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant
Paul, as is written about him, writes things difficult to follow, but this is telling us that we are come, not to an earthy mount Zion, where the presense of God caused Moses to tremble and shake in fear, but we are come to the heavenly mount and heavenly city, where God dwells. Paul tells us that there are an innumerable number of angels there, and then people: the general assembly and church, those people written in heaven, who at this time are "spirits." There has been no resurrection, the body is still in the grave, so Paul used the words "spirits of just men."
Hebrews 12:9
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Here God is called the "Father of spirits." I believe he is speaking of the spirits of men.
1 Corinthians 14:32
And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
It is not the breath, nor the soul, but the spirits of the prophets that are subject to them. Paul is speaking of the inner man being subject to the outer man. As He said in another place, "I keep under my body." Who or what is the "I?" Again, Paul is speaking of the real him, the inner man. the New Testament calls this inner man the spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
Spirits can be seen, when one can see into the spiritual world. There are many verses that speak of evil "spirits." They are not called souls, but spirits. They have a will, and they try to impose that will on humans.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
John is speaking of the spirit inside the body. False prophets are led by a wrong spirit. John goes on to say, "Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God." It may seem as if it would be our body confessing this, but John is saying that it is our inner man, the spirit inside the body, that confesses Jesus has come in the flesh.
Matthew 14:26
And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
When the disciples saw Jesus, they though they had seen a spirit. Matthew did not say "soul."
Matthew 26:41
Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Matthew is contrasting the spirit, or inner man with the body, or outer man.
Mark 2:8
And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
Jesus "perceived" in His spirit. Our Spirits are the real us, and our spirits have understanding and can preceive of things hidden to our flesh.
Mark 8:12
And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
I guess spirits can sigh.
Luke 4:33
And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice,
This has always been an interesting verse to me, for it gives us a clue as to the origin of demons. This is telling us that demons are a spirit [many verses tell us this much], but a spirit out of or from an unclean devil. This seams to say that there was once beings called devils that died, and their spirits are what try to torment and tempt us today.
Luke 8:55
And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
This is a girl that died. Her spirit, or inner man, left the body, but Jesus called that spirit back. It says, the spirit came again. Not breath, not soul, but the spirit left and came again. That is the difference between death and life: if the spirit remains in the body, there is life; but when the spirit leaves, the body dies. This is further demonstrated by the following verse:
Luke 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Jesus did not give up his "breath" although as soon as His spirit left the body, the body quit breathing. Jesus did not give up his soul, for the soul and spirit can only be divided by the word of God. No, it is written that He gave up His spirit. The Greek word for "gave up the ghost" is "ekpne" and it means to breath your last breathe, or expire, which is when your spirit leaves your body, as is written, Jesus gave His spirit into the hands of God. He was trusting His spirit with the Father. The spirit of a man has no control over whether or not it goes up or down. That power lies entirely with the Father.
I have listened to several people that have had "out of body" experiences, where their spirit left their body. Kenneth Hagin left his body three times when he was 15 years old, and he went right down to the gates of hell, three times, because he was not born again. He had all his knowledge, memory, understanding, just as if he was in his body, but his heart stopped, and his spirit left his body. he could see the flames of hell. He could feel two demons grab him by his arms. He could hear a voice speak. When he came back up, he could see the house, could see exactly where he came up at, [the first time was right throught the porch] and could see his body laying there as he approached it. Was it his "breath" that left his body? Well, he certainly was not breathing after he died! Was it his soul that left? Indeed, the soul followed the spirit, for only the word of God can divide the soul and spirit.
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
They were thinking that they were seeing Jesus' spirit, or inner man. But Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bones.
John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
If God is a spirit being, and if we are created in His likeness and image, then we are a spirit being, but just live in a flesh body.
Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Stephen, just like Jesus, knew that once he died, his spirit would be in the hands of God, and his spirit would be what would leave his body.
Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
It is by and with our spirit or inner man that we serve God. Our flesh has not desire to serve God.
Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
In the New Testament, "heart" and "spirit" seem to be interchangeable and can mean the same thing. The spiritual things that happen to us, happen in our spirit, not in our body or soul.
Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
It is in our spirit, the real "us" that we KNOW we are born again.
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
What is "in" man? It is his spirit.
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus
What part of the human is saved? Not breath, not soul, but spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
We can glorify God in our spirit, becuase our spirit is the real "us."
1 Corinthians 7:34
There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
Our spirit man can be holy. It is holy when we are born again, for it becomes a new creation.
1 Corinthians 14:14
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Our spirit man inside can pray. He is the real "me." When I pray in tongues, it is my spirit man praying.
1 Corinthians 14:15
What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
These are two mutually exclusive things: if you are praying with your spirit, in tongues, your mind is bypassed, and you understand nothing. But if you stop praying with your spirit (tongues) and start praying in English, then your understanding is engaged, since it is creating the prayer. The point is, our spirit man can pray.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
The recreated spirit, where the Holy Spirit dwells, fights to do right, but our flesh wants to sin. The war is between our flesh and our spirit.
Ephesians 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
"Inner man" and spirit seem to be speaking of the same thing.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul delineates all three parts of a human here: Spirit, soul and body. The spirit can leave the body, and does so at death, but the soul never leaves the spirit. Only the word of God can separate the soul and spirit.
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
It is our spirit man that is set apart.
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
We die (our flesh) when the spirit leaves.
1 Peter 3:4
But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
Our spirit man can be meek and quiet, and can be the opposite.
1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
It was the spirits of these men that were in hades. Their bodies had been buried.
I conclude then, that we are a spirit being, we live in a flesh and blood body, and we possess a soul, which is our mind, will, emotions, and affections. When a human dies, it is his spirit man, or the inner man, that leaves the body, and either goes to heaven or to hell. The soul goes with the spirit.
Coop
:
Eccl. 12:7 and it's context make no distinction between the righteous and unrighteous. It just declares that God is the one who breathes life (gives spirit) into all "men" and that this lifeforce returns to God upon death.