Why do you think bad things happen?

[PrimFinallyFoundGod!]

By this I mean tragedies, physical and mental illness, natural disasters etc.

I don't mean things humans do like being violent and causing harm to others and the world because I already know this is caused by the fact humans have free will and have a natural inclination to sin. ESPECIALLY when they are faithless and don't think their actions have immortal consequences.

Some thing it is God's doing. Some thing it is Satan. Some just don't know

Atheists in particular use this topic as a top reason to oppose religion. They believe there cannot be a God who "allows" these things to happen. But does he? Does he "allow" these things to happen or is that just an assumption? We don't know how powerful Satan could be and what he can do?

Looking for biblical OR personal responses. Just curious about some things.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

But the baby is only happy when his or her needs are met. A good or evil parent makes all the difference.

Correct, but sad is not necessary for happy to be real. That was my point. The reason for happy was not discussed.

I think perhaps in order to know why God being the perfect representation of love is so significant is because evil happens in our lives whether we want it to or not. If we had our needs met every moment of every day, how could we know whay good is? How do we know whay God's presence feels like if we've never felt it before, and why then should we seek it?

Well, God is not merely the prefect representation of love, He loves. A representation is a picture of something else. He is the Being how loves the best and most. We might represent Him, but he does not represent something else. And that statements assumes there is something else greater that God is merely representing. This is not so.

If we had our needs met every moment of every day, we would better know what good is than what deprivation teaches. But needs being met does not mean there are no needs outside of bodily needs. It is sometimes better to wait until you are good and hungry to eat. That does not mean the moments or hours you wait are those of not having needs met. In Heaven our needs will be met every moment of every day. It is considered the best of all possible places to be.

The last question is different. We are not actually told (outside of modern experience seeking churches) to seek His presence. We are told to obey Him. But other than that, we are often told of experiences we CAN HAVE if we seek them not having experienced them before. Everyone who marries or has children, has NEVER experienced either before the experience this. They nevertheless seek it and millions do. Do you see what I mean? Every pursuit you have never before accomplished IS by definition an experience you have never tasted before. Pursing experiences you have never known is very very common.

 

[Riven]

Correct, but sad is not necessary for happy to be real. That was my point. The reason for happy was not discussed.

I don't see how you can have one without the other though. And babies go from happy to sad almost instantly.

Even heaven isn't so different. Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God. They chose evil after having only experienced good.

Well, God is not merely the prefect representation of love, He loves. A representation is a picture of something else. He is the Being how loves the best and most. We might represent Him, but he does not represent something else. And that statements assumes there is something else greater that God is merely representing. This is not so.

I meant that it's what He is. God is the greatest love there is. Or do you think He exists independently from love and chooses to love?

If we had our needs met every moment of every day, we would better know what good is than what deprivation teaches.

I disagree. Deprivation is what motivates human beings to become better versions of themselves over time. People that are in a state of constant bliss, like opioid addicts, are hopelessly lost until they accept deprivation is a part of living.

The last question is different. We are not actually told (outside of modern experience seeking churches) to seek His presence. We are told to obey Him. But other than that, we are often told of experiences we CAN HAVE if we seek them not having experienced them before. Everyone who marries or has children, has NEVER experienced either before the experience this. They nevertheless seek it and millions do. Do you see what I mean? Every pursuit you have never before accomplished IS by definition an experience you have never tasted before. Pursing experiences you have never known is very very common.

Yes, I understand. But the "listen and obey" thing doesn't work for me and it doesn't work for millions of other people because it reminds them of dictatorship. A celestial North Korea, if you will.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Derek Prince, a man whom God used to heal many, was lying in bed seriously ill. He asked God about his illness and was told that his lifestyle in choices of food lead to his illness. God did not do it. God did not "allow it." It came as a result of his eating choices.

He did allow it. First, by designing it so our eating habits will have effects on our bodies, and secondly, by withholding his merciful intervention and doing nothing to stop it in his case. Regardless of the reason why it happened, it happened. And it happened because God himself is the one who, as a matter of his own will, not ours, has subjected all of creation to this futile battle with natural law:

20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it... Romans 8:20

But he purposely did that for a reason...

21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Romans 8:21


Affliction serves a holy purpose:

67Before I was afflicted, I went astray; but now I keep Your word.

71It was good for me to be afflicted, that I might learn Your statutes.

Psalm 119:67,71

evil happens in our lives whether we want it to or not. If we had our needs met every moment of every day, how could we know whay good is?

If evil and sin were not part of this world, would we understand the nature of God's love and the significance of Christ's savrifice on the cross? Maybe it has to be this way for us to understand. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Randy]

Bad things happen to good people.
Jesus on the cross, "tell me about it"

 

[Randy]

My house will be "Full"
People born into this world to this day still come to Christ. When Gods house is full to the satisfaction of God the Father then the end will come. The Day of the Lord. Until that day freewill has been proclaimed and we see Gods enemies have not yet been made a footstool for Christ Jesus's feet.

Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’

18“But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’
19“Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’
20“Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’
21“The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.’
22“ ‘Sir,’ the servant said, ‘what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.’
23“Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full. 24I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’ ”

Freewill proclaimed by the will of God
Rev 22:11
Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

As Jesus stated everyone who sins is a slave to sin unless the Son sets your free.
And so people become enemies of God when they are controlled by their human nature; for they do not obey God's law, and in fact they cannot obey it

Where did the weeds come from?
A enemy of mine did this - let them grow up together until harvest time

Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I don't see how you can have one without the other though. And babies go from happy to sad almost instantly.

No babies don’t. They go from merely looking at what’s around them without emotion to happy. No passing through sad. And frankly speaking, all believe Heaven will be happy with not the slightest hint of sad.

Even heaven isn't so different. Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God. They chose evil after having only experienced good.

Doesn’t say the inhabitants were therefore sad.

I meant that it's what He is. God is the greatest love there is. Or do you think He exists independently from love and chooses to love?

Love is not a Being. In a vacuum without any life, there is neither love nor hate nor any other motivation only possible with living beings.

I disagree. Deprivation is what motivates human beings to become better versions of themselves over time.

That’s not born out to be true in studies. PTDS shows us that deprivation leads to damage, not improved people.

People that are in a state of constant bliss, like opioid addicts, are hopelessly lost until they accept deprivation is a part of living.

Ah, you use examples of people engaged in what is referred to as a branch of the occult, that is evil. We are talking moral good, not the pleasures those who engage in evil enjoy. The most well adjusted adults grew up not with deprivation or drug use, but where provision and love were abundant.

Yes, I understand. But the "listen and obey" thing doesn't work for me and it doesn't work for millions of other people because it reminds them of dictatorship. A celestial North Korea, if you will.

Too bad. “Forgive others who do you wrong” is owner and freedom. The refusal to do so is a cage and frankly speaking drinking poison yourself and hoping the other guy dies. Bitterness (refusal to obey God and forgive) can lead to arthritis and other diseases. You see Gods commands as tyranny, I see them as the key to freedom and power no matter what people do to you.

 

[Tenchi]

By this I mean tragedies, physical and mental illness, natural disasters etc.

These aren't all the same sort of "bad things." Some arise from human wickedness, others are just natural events arising from the mechanics of our world.

Atheists in particular use this topic as a top reason to oppose religion. They believe there cannot be a God who "allows" these things to happen. But does he? Does he "allow" these things to happen or is that just an assumption? We don't know how powerful Satan could be and what he can do?

Looking for biblical OR personal responses. Just curious about some things.

You will find good answers to your question at the following:

Search Result | Reasonable Faith

www.reasonablefaith.org

https://crossexamined.org/?s=theodicy

 

[WIP]

Just a reminder to focus attention on the OP's questions. Thanks.

 

[journeyman]

By this I mean tragedies, physical and mental illness, natural disasters etc.

I don't mean things humans do like being violent and causing harm to others and the world because I already know this is caused by the fact humans have free will and have a natural inclination to sin. ESPECIALLY when they are faithless and don't think their actions have immortal consequences.

Some thing it is God's doing. Some thing it is Satan. Some just don't know

Atheists in particular use this topic as a top reason to oppose religion. They believe there cannot be a God who "allows" these things to happen. But does he? Does he "allow" these things to happen or is that just an assumption? We don't know how powerful Satan could be and what he can do?

Looking for biblical OR personal responses. Just curious about some things.

Where mental "illness" (???) is concerned, that's curable by the love of Christ,

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2Tim.1:7

Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established. Pro.16:3

Where catastrophes or physical sicknesses are concerned, the death of our physical body isn't a bad thing. Knowing we're mortal is a good thing.

The Bible says when the Messiah would appear to the world, living to the age of 100 years would be considered a very short life. It would be like a child who died. What unbelievers think is a long life is very short compared to eternal life.

There is not thence any more a suckling of days, And an aged man who doth not complete his days, For the youth a hundred years old dieth, And the sinner, a hundred years old, is lightly esteemed. Isa.65:20

What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Jas.4:14

 

[Zeth4500]

mental illnesses are usually a way to unleash emotions that werent processed long time ago, some mental illnesses are demonic entities- schizophrenia, and some mood disorders
personally i have "connected" to the evil spirits guarding 2 seperate anorexic women, one of them i was stuck in a sort of trance for 3 hours where i could clearly see her demons the whole time, anorexia is oftenly used to cope with mood disorders and it is selfdestructive- satanic.
a lot of the DSM-5 is really just systemic gaslighting, convincing people who have a personality that it is infact a dis-order, pay close attention to the terms as an illness is something that can be cured, while a disorder, and a personality disorder just claims that there is a range in which something is acceptable, while most especially successful people would fall into this category

so its a mix of nonsense, demons, drug-dealing and society in general not understanding how to treat emotions

the nonsense could be tackled with the bible not permitting people to deceive
the demons could be tackled with the bible simply by people following it and not letting the demons get a hold of them
the drug-dealing would again be countered by the bible being against deception as they rely on that to put children on harmful drugs
and all the mispractices of society would keep us from letting the wrong people tell us how to think and behave

 

[Fastfredy0]

Looking for biblical OR personal responses. Just curious about some things.

It's the question that has perplexed Christianity forever. Don't expect a definitive answer ...
Ask 10 Christians about it and expect 10 different answers (maybe some commonality)

Google "theodicy".
Look up https://www.gotquestions.org/theodicy.html If God is good and all-powerful, why does He allow evil?
Consider verses like:

1. Genesis 20:6 Then in the dream God replied to him [Abimelech concerning Abraham’s wife], “Yes, I know that you have done this with a clear conscience. That is why I have kept you from sinning against me and why I did not allow you to touch her
2. Exodus 4:11 The Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute or the deaf, or the seeing or the blind? Is it not I, the Lord? If man causes someone to be deaf or blind it is sin; if God does causes deafness or blindness, it is not sin.

• Joshua 11:20 For it was of the Lord to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, that [Israel] might destroy them utterly, and that without favor and mercy, as the Lord commanded Moses. The Canaanites were destroyed by Joshua
• Joshua 23:15 But just as all the good things that the Lord your God promised concerning you have been fulfilled for you, so the Lord will bring upon you all the evil things, until he has destroyed you from off this good land that the Lord your God has given you, ESV instead of ‘evil’ other versions you ‘every judgement’ (NET), ‘evil’ (NIV, KJV), ‘bad thing’ (AMP)
• Judges 9:23 Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem, [which aided him in the killing of his brethren ]
• Judges 14:4 …it was from the LORD; for he was seeking an occasion against the Philistines. At that time the Philistines had dominion over Israel. Samson’s demand to marry an unbelieving Philistine woman
• 1 Samuel 2:25 The sons of Eli, when rebuked for their evil deeds, “But they would not listen to their father, for it was the Lord’s will to put them to death”.
• 1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented and troubled him.
• 1 Samuel 18:10 Now it came about on the next day that an evil spirit from God came forcefully on Saul, and he raved [madly] inside his house, while David was playing the harp with his hand, as usual; and there was a spear in Saul’s hand. 11 Saul hurled the spear, for he thought, “I will pin David to the wall.” But David evaded him twice.