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Hell, what is it?

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OzSpen said:
This is my understanding from the Scriptures.

Here is a brief summary of the meaning of one Hebrew and three Greek words.
  • Sheol. OT believers knew that Sheol [Hebrew] was visible to God (Job 26:6) and that they were in the presence and protection of God at death (Psalm 139:8).
  • Hades (Morey 1984:81-87). It is the Greek equivalent of Sheol, although it translates other Hebrew words as well. We run into problems with the mistranslation by the KJV of Hades and Sheol. The post-resurrection teaching in the NT is that the believer goes to heaven at death (present with the Lord) to await the resurrection and the final eternal state. But for unbelievers they go to Hades, a temporary place of torment, awaiting their resurrection and the eternal punishment. Regarding 2 Peter 2:9, ‘the grammar of the text irrefutably establishes that the wicked are in torment while they await their final judgment. When the day of judgment arrives, Hades will be emptied of its inhabitants, and the wicked will stand before God for their final sentence (Rev. 20:13-15). Thus, we conclude that Hades will be emptied at the resurrection, and then the wicked will be cast into “hell” (Gehenna)’ (Morey 1984:87).
  • Valley of Hinnom. It is mentioned in Josh 15:8; 18:16 and Neh. 11:30. It was the place where idolatrous Jews gave human sacrifices to pagan deities. In Christ’s day it became Jerusalem’s garbage dump. So, this garbage dump became a Jewish picture of the ultimate fate of idol worshippers (Morey 1984:87).
  • Tartarus. This is used only once in the NT in 2 Peter 2:4 to refer to angels and where they were cast. Peter was using a word that in Greek literature meant a place of conscious torment in the netherworld. It did not mean non-existence, but referred to their being reserved in the place of mental anguish and terror until the day of judgment (Morey 1984:135).
  • Gehenna. It’s the Greek equivalent of the Valley of Hinnom, so Gehenna is an appropriate description of the final, eternal garbage dump where idolators go after the resurrection. The wicked would suffer there forever. Even Arndt & Gingrich’s Greek lexicon concluded that it means ‘the place of eternal punishment’. Coon and Mills define Gehenna as ‘the place of eternal punishment’. So Gehenna is the final place of punishment, the ultimate place of torment for the wicked. It will be eternal, conscious torment (Morey 1984:87-90).
Conclusion
The Christian believers go to be with the Lord at death, ‘Away from the body and at home with the Lord’ (2 Cor. 5:8 ESV). They await the resurrection and the final state in heaven.

By contrast, all unbelievers at death go to Hades, a temporary place of torment, and await the resurrection, at which time they will be cast by God permanently into Gehenna, the place of eternal, conscious torment.

This is my understanding of the biblical teaching on hell, in spite of others wanting to change it, e.g. Preston Sprinkle, Rob Bell, Clark Pinnock, etc.

Works consulted

Arndt, W F & Gingrich, F W 1957. A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edition licensed to Zondervan Publishing House).

Morey, R A 1984. Death and the afterlife. Minneapolis, Minnesota: Bethany House Publishers (from my article, Hell in the Bible).
Click to expand...
Thanks Oz, you put that together very well.

I am not being disrespectful here, so please know I respect your work. But it seems to me you've posted a nice summary of those places without really saying much about them.

For instance, let's just focus on Gehenna. You've cited your academic studies, and they are good. But it lacks backdrop and storyline. In other words, it has very little depth.

Gehenna is rich in story. It should conjure feelings and pictures of past events that stir and move us away from making the same mistakes again co.bined with thoughts that if we participate in those types of behavior, there are eternal consequences. You see, when you make a horrific mistake, it doesn't go away. This is why we remember, and we tell the story so others don't fall into the same trap

From that perspective, how do you see Gehenna and Shoel relate to one another in the biblical narrative?

I know you will put much thought into this, and I appreciate ahead of time your reply as I eagerly await.

Thank you,
Jeff
 
From Rev.21 I do not understand that the "street of gold" is literal gold. I do not understand the gates of "pearl" to be literal. I do not understand the foundation of the wall to be literal jewels. The language of God cannot express in human language how wonderful that city really is, I Cor.2:9. Even so with hell. The various descriptions of hell in scripture cannot convey to us its damnation. The descriptions of hell are the most terrible to the human experience. I understand heaven and hell are realities and equal in eternity.
 
OzSpen said:
Not so, Bick. The teaching on the reality of eternal, conscious punishment for the damned after death was taught by Jesus himself.

The Gehenna Valley was thus a place of burning sewage, burning flesh, and garbage. Maggots and worms crawled through the waste, and the smoke smelled strong and sickening (Isaiah 30:33). It was a place utterly filthy, disgusting and repulsive to the nose and eyes. Gehenna presented such a vivid image that Christ used it as a symbolic depiction of hell: a place of eternal torment and constant uncleanness, where the fires never ceased burning and the worms never stopped crawling (Matthew 10:28; Mark 9:47–48).

Because of Jesus’ symbolic use of Gehenna, the word gehenna is sometimes used as a synonym for hell. In fact, that’s how the Greek word is translated in Mark 9:47: “hell.” The occupants of the lake of fire/gehenna/hell are separated from God for all of eternity (What is Gehenna?)​

The doctrine of Gehenna as eternal, conscious, punishment is contained in my copy of the Greek NT: καὶ μὴ φοβεῖσθε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεννόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι· φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ (Matt 10:28, SBLGNT, Greek NT, emphasis added).

Oz
Click to expand...
In the accounts the Lord warned about Gehenna, he said one could be judged by the Sanhedren, the highest court in Israel. Live human beings on the earth would be judged, not "lost souls" in some "hell. To say that Jesus used it as a symbolic description of hell does not make sense, to me.
Why? Because the Scriptures are clear that when God breathed into the nostrils of the formed man (Adam), and man became a living soul, Gen. 2:7. Adam was not just a created something, like a tree, he was a sensual being capable of experiences through his senses, his "soul."
Many times the soul is said to die or be killed: The one often quoted is Eze. 18:20, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Many others tell us that the soul can be destroyed, taken away; ref: Lev. 23:30 "And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, that same soul will I destroy from among his people."
See also; Josh. 10:30,32,35,37,39;11:11; Jer. 2:34; Eze. 13:19; 22:25-27.
When the person dies, his soul disappears, or "goes to the unseen."
The cure for death is resurrection. And we know we are all going to be judged, the Church Body of Christ before the judgment seat of Christ in the heavenlies; the saved Israelites after Christ returns in power and great glory; the rest of the dead at the Great White Throne.
 
StoveBolts said:
T
For instance, let's just focus on Gehenna. You've cited your academic studies, and they are good. But it lacks backdrop and storyline. In other words, it has very little depth.
Click to expand...

Jeff,

Where in our discussion on hell in this thread have I 'cited [my] academic studies'?

I'll leave it up to you to show the story line of Gehenna and the association with Hades. I do not have the personal time to do it now.

You can read my perspective in, 'Where will unbelievers go at death?'

Oz
 
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OzSpen said:
Jeff,

Where in our discussion on hell in this thread have I 'cited [my] academic studies'?

I'll leave it up to you to show the story line of Gehenna and the association with Hades. I do not have the personal time to do it now.

You can read my perspective in, 'Where will unbelievers go at death?'

Oz
Click to expand...
I was referring to this article.
Torment in Old Testament hell? The meaning of Sheol in the Old Testament.

I was hoping, in part that you could put a bit more focus on point 4 and then point out its relation to Gehenna.

If we can get the relationship between Gehenna and Shoel properly established because both derive from Jewish thought and experience, then we can more clearly see it's counterparts Hades and Tartarus in Greek mythology.

I do understand time constraints. And although I am myself eager to engage and lead the conversation, my reservation comes two fold.
1. Opposition
2. Trying to draft such a robust article from my phone. It's such a pain.

Jeff
 
StoveBolts said:
If we can get the relationship between Gehenna and Shoel properly established because both derive from Jewish thought and experience, then we can more clearly see it's counterparts Hades and Tartarus in Greek mythology.

I do understand time constraints. And although I am myself eager to engage and lead the conversation, my reservation comes two fold.
1. Opposition
2. Trying to draft such a robust article from my phone. It's such a pain.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Jeff,

Tartarus is used only once in the NT: 'God did not spare angels when they sinned. Instead, he sent them to hell [Tartarus]. He chained them up in dark prisons. He will keep them there until he judges them' (2 Pet 2:4 NIRV).

In my understanding, the counterparts of OT Gehenna and Sheol are Gehenna and Hades in the NT. Tartarus refers to where the angels go.

Time constraints are only part of my personal situation. For the last 8 months I have been battling the devastation of my wife leaving me after 48.5 years of marriage and committing adultery with the pastor of the church we had been attending.

I've had to pursue division of assets through a lawyer that has cost me thousands of $$.

Now I'm at the point of about being ready to sell my 4-bedroom house to downsize. This means looking at several options.

Then I've been going through all the requirements for application of an age pension with Centrelink (our Social Security) with the difficulty of our having a family trust. I've had not a cent of income coming in for 8 months.

Then there's the grief of dealing with the loss of my wife whom I have loved for over 50 years - and learning to cook as a single again bloke.

So, I hope you can see that I have more on my plate than lack of time.

Blessings,
Oz
 
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OzSpen said:
Jeff,

Tartarus is used only once in the NT: 'God did not spare angels when they sinned. Instead, he sent them to hell [Tartarus]. He chained them up in dark prisons. He will keep them there until he judges them' (2 Pet 2:4 NIRV).

In my understanding, the counterparts of OT Gehenna and Sheol are Gehenna and Hades in the NT. Tartarus refers to where the angels go.

Time constraints are only part of my personal situation. For the last 8 months I have been battling the devastation of my wife leaving me after 48.5 years of marriage and committing adultery with the pastor of the church we had been attending.

I've had to pursue division of assets through a lawyer that has cost me thousands of $$.

Now I'm at the point of about being ready to sell my 4-bedroom house to downsize. This means looking at several options.

Then I've been going through all the requirements for application of an age pension with Centrelink (our Social Security) with the difficulty of out having a family trust. I've had not a cent of income coming in for 8 months.

Then there's the grief of dealing with the loss of my wife whom I have loved for over 50 years - and learning to cook as a single again bloke.

So, I hope you can see that I have more on my plate than lack of time.

Blessings,
Oz
Click to expand...
Gob bless you Oz, you are in my prayers.
 
OzSpen said:
Jeff,

Tartarus is used only once in the NT: 'God did not spare angels when they sinned. Instead, he sent them to hell [Tartarus]. He chained them up in dark prisons. He will keep them there until he judges them' (2 Pet 2:4 NIRV).

In my understanding, the counterparts of OT Gehenna and Sheol are Gehenna and Hades in the NT. Tartarus refers to where the angels go.

Time constraints are only part of my personal situation. For the last 8 months I have been battling the devastation of my wife leaving me after 48.5 years of marriage and committing adultery with the pastor of the church we had been attending.

I've had to pursue division of assets through a lawyer that has cost me thousands of $$.

Now I'm at the point of about being ready to sell my 4-bedroom house to downsize. This means looking at several options.

Then I've been going through all the requirements for application of an age pension with Centrelink (our Social Security) with the difficulty of our having a family trust. I've had not a cent of income coming in for 8 months.

Then there's the grief of dealing with the loss of my wife whom I have loved for over 50 years - and learning to cook as a single again bloke.

So, I hope you can see that I have more on my plate than lack of time.

Blessings,
Oz
Click to expand...
I am so very sorry to hear this. I can't imagine how you must feel. My wife and I separated last year after 17 years of marriage and it was an adjustment not only being alone, but also cooking, cleaning and taking on all the responsibilities without a helper. We did get back together, but there was never any infidelity. I am so sorry your going through tjis.

I'll share a bit of what I know about hell and we can take out conversation to PM.

In Greek mythology, Hades is the brother of Zeus. Hades underworld abode is called Hades and much like it's Jewish counterpart Shoel, everyone went there when they died.

In the deepest, darkest part of Hades was a place called Tartarus. This place was a place of torment for all the evil and wicked.

Gehenna has it's roots in Jewish history. Starting with Solomon offering his children to Molech in the valley of Hinnom and is later used as a garbage dump.

Gehenna not only represents the physical, but it also represents the spiritual.

The Jewish idea of Gehenna when it comes to spirituality is much like the Catholic version of Purgatory. The two are one in the same ideologically except in Jewish thought, Gehenna is a place of indescrible pain and suffering. Please know that I am not a ski g anyone to accept this. I am simply the messenger.

I could,and I will continue later. In the meantime, I wish you well and please, reach out if you need a friend to talk to.

In Christian love, Jeff
 
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OzSpen said:
Jeff,

Tartarus is used only once in the NT: 'God did not spare angels when they sinned. Instead, he sent them to hell [Tartarus]. He chained them up in dark prisons. He will keep them there until he judges them' (2 Pet 2:4 NIRV).

In my understanding, the counterparts of OT Gehenna and Sheol are Gehenna and Hades in the NT. Tartarus refers to where the angels go.

Time constraints are only part of my personal situation. For the last 8 months I have been battling the devastation of my wife leaving me after 48.5 years of marriage and committing adultery with the pastor of the church we had been attending.

I've had to pursue division of assets through a lawyer that has cost me thousands of $$.

Now I'm at the point of about being ready to sell my 4-bedroom house to downsize. This means looking at several options.

Then I've been going through all the requirements for application of an age pension with Centrelink (our Social Security) with the difficulty of our having a family trust. I've had not a cent of income coming in for 8 months.

Then there's the grief of dealing with the loss of my wife whom I have loved for over 50 years - and learning to cook as a single again bloke.

So, I hope you can see that I have more on my plate than lack of time.

Blessings,
Oz
Click to expand...
So sorry to hear of this OZ. That's a tough road. I'd be devastated as well.
 
StoveBolts said:
I am so very sorry to hear this. I can't imagine how you must feel. My wife and I separated last year after 17 years of marriage and it was an adjustment not only being alone, but also cooking, cleaning and taking on all the responsibilities without a helper. We did get back together, but there was never any infidelity. I am so sorry your going through tjis.

I'll share a bit of what I know about hell and we can take out conversation to PM.

In Greek mythology, Hades is the brother of Zeus. Hades underworld abode is called Hades and much like it's Jewish counterpart Shoel, everyone went there when they died.

In the deepest, darkest part of Hades was a place called Tartarus. This place was a place of torment for all the evil and wicked.

Gehenna has it's roots in Jewish history. Starting with Solomon offering his children to Molech in the valley of Hinnom and is later used as a garbage dump.

Gehenna not only represents the physical, but it also represents the spiritual.

The Jewish idea of Gehenna when it comes to spirituality is much like the Catholic version of Purgatory. The two are one in the same ideologically except in Jewish thought, Gehenna is a place of indescrible pain and suffering. Please know that I am not a ski g anyone to accept this. I am simply the messenger.

I could,and I will continue later. In the meantime, I wish you well and please, reach out if you need a friend to talk to.

In Christian love, Jeff
Click to expand...

Jeff,

I'd enjoy doing some research and interacting with you, but I'm going through a 'gehenna' of a time right now and I wouldn't have time or energy to respond to a PM.

Blessings,
Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Jeff,

I'd enjoy doing some research and interacting with you, but I'm going through a 'gehenna' of a time right now and I wouldn't have time or energy to respond to a PM.

Blessings,
Oz
Click to expand...
I understand. Peace be with you and please know your not alone. Hold on, Gods got you and were here to support you anyway we can. That's what family does brother.
 
StoveBolts said:
I understand. Peace be with you and please know your not alone. Hold on, Gods got you and were here to support you anyway we can. That's what family does brother.
Click to expand...

Blessings to you, Jeff, for your care and support. Spencer
 
billybalke said:
From Rev.21 I do not understand that the "street of gold" is literal gold. I do not understand the gates of "pearl" to be literal. I do not understand the foundation of the wall to be literal jewels. The language of God cannot express in human language how wonderful that city really is, I Cor.2:9. Even so with hell. The various descriptions of hell in scripture cannot convey to us its damnation. The descriptions of hell are the most terrible to the human experience. I understand heaven and hell are realities and equal in eternity.
Click to expand...
StoveBolts said:
I am so very sorry to hear this. I can't imagine how you must feel. My wife and I separated last year after 17 years of marriage and it was an adjustment not only being alone, but also cooking, cleaning and taking on all the responsibilities without a helper. We did get back together, but there was never any infidelity. I am so sorry your going through tjis.

I'll share a bit of what I know about hell and we can take out conversation to PM.

In Greek mythology, Hades is the brother of Zeus. Hades underworld abode is called Hades and much like it's Jewish counterpart Shoel, everyone went there when they died.

In the deepest, darkest part of Hades was a place called Tartarus. This place was a place of torment for all the evil and wicked.

Gehenna has it's roots in Jewish history. Starting with Solomon offering his children to Molech in the valley of Hinnom and is later used as a garbage dump.

Gehenna not only represents the physical, but it also represents the spiritual.

The Jewish idea of Gehenna when it comes to spirituality is much like the Catholic version of Purgatory. The two are one in the same ideologically except in Jewish thought, Gehenna is a place of indescrible pain and suffering. Please know that I am not a ski g anyone to accept this. I am simply the messenger.

I could,and I will continue later. In the meantime, I wish you well and please, reach out if you need a friend to talk to.

In Christian love, Jeff
Click to expand...

So sorry to hear abut your marital problems, fellows. My prayers are with you.
Concerning definitions of "Hades" and "tartarus" based upon Greek Mythology, they are wrong when it comes to the scriptures. The Holy Spirit uses words of the world (that is, Greek), but sanctifies them as we can discover through etymology and usage.
For example: "Hades" means "unseen", and is the equivalent of "Sheol". See Acts. 2:27 and 31, quoting
Psa. 16:10.
"...thou wilt not leave my abandon my soul to Hades.."
"For thou dost not give me up to Sheol..." Psa. 16:10.
 
Bick said:
So sorry to hear abut your marital problems, fellows. My prayers are with you.
Concerning definitions of "Hades" and "tartarus" based upon Greek Mythology, they are wrong when it comes to the scriptures. The Holy Spirit uses words of the world (that is, Greek), but sanctifies them as we can discover through etymology and usage.
For example: "Hades" means "unseen", and is the equivalent of "Sheol". See Acts. 2:27 and 31, quoting
Psa. 16:10.
"...thou wilt not leave my abandon my soul to Hades.."
"For thou dost not give me up to Sheol..." Psa. 16:10.
Click to expand...
And to my point, Jesus pulls out the truths within their mythology.

In the since of Hades and it's Jewish equivalent Shoel, all souls go to Shoel / Hades when they die.

This idea is established firmly in not only scripture but also in Greek mythology. This poses an issue in doctrines of Hell because Norse mythology states only the wicked are sent to He'll.

And so the average Christian is left wondering, what the He'll?

This is where Gehenna and Tartarus comes into play. Sorta.

Gehenna is a physical place with a rich Jewish and biblical history. Tartarus is derived from Greek mythology. Spiritually, they are both known for being a place of torment, pain and suffering.

Suffice it to say that the Jews of today have a very different view of Gehenna than does most Christians. They view Gehenna as a place more like purgetory, except it is extremely painful. They believe it is a place of purification for the wicked and their time is limited. Unlike a rightous man who never enters Gehenna, although a good Rabi can snatch souls out of Gehenna early.
 
Nathan said:
Another thread prompted this discussion. So I figured we could begin by knowing what exactly hell is.

What is it?

Was it created, or did it always exist?

Who goes there?

Why do they go there?

I think we often don't like to talk about it for some reason, but sometimes it's nessesary to understand things.
Click to expand...

Hell is the absence of God's love. That we know for sure. Anything else is conjecture. Just not a nice prospect to spend eternity.
 
blair032 said:
Hell is the absence of God's love. That we know for sure. Anything else is conjecture. Just not a nice prospect to spend eternity.
Click to expand...

Please provide me with biblical evidence that 'hell is the absence of God's love'.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Please provide me with biblical evidence that 'hell is the absence of God's love'.

Oz
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it's actually in scripture, but I've thought about this before and it makes perfect sense to me...

The real reward for us when we go to heaven, is that we will be able to live in the very presence of almighty God Himself. Every testimony that I've ever read, the people all say the same thing, that the feeling of love and acceptance that happens in a visitation or a trip to the third heaven, is undescribable and feels like being at home. They all say that.

So it sort of stands to reason that the real and worst punishment for those who go to hell is the total absence and separation from God and His love.
 
Edward said:
it sort of stands to reason that the real and worst punishment for those who go to hell is the total absence and separation from God and His love.
Click to expand...

2 Thessalonians 1:9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,​
 
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