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Born Again Of The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Squeaky
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Razeontherock
Member
You clearly portrayed Eph 6 as though it were a curse in your effort to create the false dichotomy that we must choose to either be Christ's bride, or warriors in armor.
Scripture presents no such dilemma. We are very clearly both things, and more; prophets, priests, and kings, just as one set of examples.
ezrider
Member
I said no such thing. But that is what you wanted to hear. When you replied with "both are in the scripture", I simply stated that the scripture presents BOTH Blessings and Curses, Life and Death.
He came by water and blood.
Water is water
Blood is blood
How can you just decide that half of this scripture is symbolic (water = word) and the other half is literal.
Very dangerous interpretation method.
He came into this world by water and blood, not water only like all men who come into this world, but by both water and blood.
The water of His mother’s womb and the blood of her hymen as a virgin, proving He is the Messiah. Born of a virgin.
Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14
The Holy Spirit is the Eternal Witness to this supernatural phenomenon.
JLB
ezrider
Member
Since you seem know all thing scripture as well as being able to judge my intents and thoughts, then tell me if you can with all your wisdom: If the gospel armor protects you from the curse, then how can the armor itself also be a curse?
I think he would have mentioned the virgin Mary if that was the case. But there's plenty of evidence he was speaking figuratively.
Right from David where he says 'my soul thirsts for God' and 'as in a dry and weary land where no water is.' to Proverbs 25:25 "Like cold water to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country' Is he talking about the good news meaning the gospel?
To Amos who said there would come a day when the Lord would send a famine on the land, not a famine of bread or a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD." Amos 8:8:11 And they shall seek the word of the LORD and not find it.
To Jesus' teaching, "“Every one who drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst; the water that I shall give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” John 4 and "If anyone thirst, let him come to me and drink. John 7:37 And Matthew 12:43
“When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest, but he finds none." So this man goes out into the world searching for the truth, passes through waterless places, can not find the word of God, then falls away or returns to his previous state.
To Peter who compares false teachers of the word of God to waterless springs.
2 Peter 2:17
These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved.
To Jude who calls them waterless clouds. Jude 1:12
These are blemishes on your love feasts, as they boldly carouse together, looking after themselves; waterless clouds, carried along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead,
To Rev. 22:17 and the 'water' of life.
So John says he came by water and with water. In other words, he came by the word of God and with the word of God. So he came with the word of God to teach the word of God. And he came not with water (the word of God) alone but with water (the word of God) and the blood. The blood refers to the life.
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Christ_empowered
Member
Now that is a quality post.
Ok then if He was speaking figuratively please explain what “came” by water and blood means if not a reference to the virgin birth of Christ.
If you see John refers to natural birth in this way in John 3:6 then its very easy to see came by water and blood is a reference to the virgin birth.
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6
Born of water - Born of the flesh
Born of the Spirit - Born of the Spirit
Born of water and came by water is a reference to natural birth.
Came by water and blood is a reference to supernatural virgin birth.
JLB
What evidence in the scripture and context lend to the idea of figurative speaking?
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one. 1 John 5:4-8
JLB
Says who?
The water is a type of the Spirit.
Seed is the word of God.
Jesus is the Word of God.
Again there is no reference or indication of any parabolic reference in the passage I quoted.
IOW there is nothing in the context to indicate John was speaking symbolically.
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. (Literal)
And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. (Literal)
Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? (Literal)
This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood.
(Jesus Christ came into this world by both water from the womb as well as blood from His virgin mothers hymen, literally.)
And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. (Literal)
JLB
Can I ask you an honest question.
If a virgin gives birth to a Child, will the blood of her hymen be mixed with her water when it breaks?
Wouldn’t this be a sure witness that the woman was a virgin?
JLB
I don't know what you are hearing as I never said I haven't gained victory through Christ over the sting of death or the victory of the grave.
Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Who we are in Christ:
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
Until the Groom comes for His bride we will always have an adversary that wants to destroy our faith so I will keep my armour on until it's time for the marriage.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
ezra
Member
i hope ezrider is not saying he sees no use for the whole Armour of God .the Armour is symbolic as paul had a spiritual Revelation . being around the roman soldiers. i was told of a young man who literally repeated each piece and put it on before going out . while it is symbolic it is very real and to be used as a defense from the wiles of Satan..Battle up in a factory they have what they call ppe personal protective equipment and your required to wear it ear plugs safety glasses in some cases gloves. when grinding safety glasses and face shield . use the Armour is what paul is telling us
Razeontherock
Member
Well I'm glad to come across your clarification! Without it, that was a very strange style of communication. I have no idea what possible connection you were making, how one would flow from the other.
We are the Bride of Christ. We are armored warriors. No contradiction. No need to choose one or the other.