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Romans 7

21 I find then a Law (does not refer in this case to the Law of Moses, but rather to the "Law of sin and death" [Rom. 8:2]), that, when I would do good, evil (the evil nature) is present with me (the idea is that the sin nature is always going to be with the Believer; there is no hint in the Greek that its stay is temporary, at least until the Trump sounds; we can successfully address the sin nature in only one way, and that is by Faith in Christ and the Cross, which Paul will detail in the next Chapter).

22 For I delight in the Law of God (refers to the moral Law of God ensconced in the Ten Commandments) after the inward man (refers to the spirit and soul of man which has now been regenerated):

23 But I see another Law in my members (the Law of sin and death desiring to use my physical body as an instrument of unrighteousness), warring against the Law of my mind (this is the Law of desire and willpower), and bringing me into captivity to the Law of sin (the Law of sin and death) which is in my members (which will function through my members, and make me a slave to the Law of sin and death; this will happen to the most consecrated Christian if that Christian doesn't constantly exercise Faith in Christ and the Cross that all powers of darkness were defeated [Col. 2:14-15]).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
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Romans 7

24 O wretched man that I am! (Any Believer who attempts to live for God outside of God's Prescribed Order, which is "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified," will, in fact, live a wretched and miserable existence. This life can only be lived in one way, and that way is the Cross.) Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (The minute he cries "Who," he finds the path to Victory, for he is now calling upon a Person for help, and that Person is Christ; actually, the Greek Text is masculine, indicating a Person).

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord (presents Paul revealing the answer to his own question; Deliverance comes through Jesus Christ Alone, and more particularly what Jesus did at Calvary and the Resurrection). So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God (the "will" is the trigger, but it within itself can do nothing unless the gun is loaded with explosive power; that Power is the Cross); but with the flesh the Law of sin (if the Believer resorts to the "flesh," [i.e., "self-will, self-effort, religious effort"] which refers to his own ability outside of Christ and the Cross, he will not serve the Law of God, but rather the Law of sin).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
iLOVE,



Does the sin nature still operate in the believer's life? How is the 'sin nature' made 'ineffective'?

Where is 'sin nature' mentioned in Rom 6:6?

Oz
Romans 6:6-7 - Knowing this, that our old man is Crucified with Him (all that we were before conversion), that the body of sin might be destroyed (the power of the sin nature made ineffective), that henceforth we should not serve sin (the guilt of sin is removed at conversion, because the sin nature no longer rules within our hearts and lives).

For he who is dead (He was our Substitute, and in the Mind of God, we died with Him upon Believing Faith) is freed from sin (set free from bondage of the sin nature).

The power of the sin nature is broken, not eliminated.

The role of obedience in a Christian life is Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work (The Law of the Spirit of Life In Christ Jesus - Romans 8:2). This gives the Holy Spirit the legal means (who only works in this parameter) to help us and transforms us into what we ought to be (Christlikeness - Romans 8:13). Faith in anything and everything else, the works of the flesh will manifest (Gal. 5:19-21). You are now committing Spiritual Adultery (Romans 7:1-6).

It is difficult for Believers to place their Faith exclusively in the Cross of Christ because it goes against the flesh (Romans 8:7; Gal. 5:17).
 
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For sin shall not have dominion over you (the sin nature will not have dominion over us if we as Believers continue to exercise Faith in the Cross of Christ; otherwise, the sin nature most definitely will have dominion over the Believer): for you are not under the Law (means that if we try to live this life by any type of law, no matter how good that law might be in its own right, we will conclude by the sin nature having dominion over us), but under Grace (the Grace of God flows to the Believer on an unending basis only as long as the Believer exercises Faith in Christ and what He did at the Cross; Grace is merely the Goodness of God exercised by and through the Holy Spirit, and given to underserving Saints). Romans 6:14

Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey (the Believers is either a slave to Christ, for that's what the word "servant" means, or else a slave to sin, which he will be if he doesn't keep his Faith in Christ and the Cross); whether of sin unto death (once again allow us to state the fact that if the Believer attempts to live for God by any method other than Faith in the Finished Work of Christ, the Believer will fail, no matter how hard he otherwise tries), or of obedience unto Righteousness? (The Believer is required to obey the Word of the Lord. He cannot do that within his own strength, but only by understanding that he receives all things through what Christ did at the Cross and his continued Faith in that Finished Work, even on a daily basis. Then the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can make us what we ought to be, can accomplish His work within our lives.) Romans 6:16

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Romans 7

19 For the good that I would I do not (if I depend on self, and not the Cross): but the evil which I would not (don't want to do), that I do (which is exactly what every Believer will do no matter how hard he tries to do otherwise, if he tries to live this outside of the Cross [Gal. 2:20-21]).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible

iLOVE,

What does Jimmy Swaggart mean by including 'the Cross'? Why is he not referring directly to Jesus?

Oz
 
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iLOVE,

What does Jimmy Swaggart mean by including 'the Cross'? Why is he not referring directly to Jesus?

Oz
What Jesus accomplished on the Cross has given the Holy Spirit the legal right to live in us, to help us. The Cross has given us access into the Most Holy Place by the Blood of Jesus (Hebrews 10:19 NIV). Every single blessing received by the Child of God comes through Calvary.

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).
  1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
  2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
  3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
  4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.
If the Cross of Christ is not strictly the Object of our Faith, God looks at everything else as "worldliness." No matter how religious our efforts may be otherwise, it is still looked at by the Lord as "friendship with the world." This means the Believer in essence becomes an "enemy of God."

Christians must start thinking Spiritually, which refers to the fact that everything is furnished to us through the Cross, and is obtained by Faith and not works. Many Christians say you put too much emphasis on the Cross. I remind you that the Apostle Paul said, "We preach Christ Crucified (1 Cor. 1:23). He also said, "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and Him Crucified (1 Cor. 2:2). Notice two subjects: Christ and the Cross. Why would the Apostle Paul say such a thing? Because that is the only way we receive victory over sin, the world, the flesh, and the devil!

And he said to them all, If any man will come after Me (the criteria for Discipleship), let him deny himself (not asceticism as many think, but rather that one denies one's own willpower, self-will, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ), and take up his cross (the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need) daily (this is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on a daily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster), and follow Me (Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone [Rom. 6:3-5, 11, 14; 8:1-2, 11; 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 3:14-15]). Luke 9:23

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it (try to live one's life outside of Christ and the Cross): but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it (when we place our Faith entirely in Christ and the Cross, looking exclusively to Him, we have just found "more Abundant Life" [John 10:10]) Luke 9:24

As far as trying to do something as it concerns taking up the Cross daily, we are to do nothing. In fact, it was already done at Calvary some two thousand years ago. On a daily basis, we should reinforce our Faith in Christ and what He has done for us at the Cross (Rom. 6:3-5; 8:2, Gal. 2:20-21, Col. 2:10-15). This is the "Truth" which we must learn, act upon, and continue to act upon, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit.

We are not wrestling against flesh and blood. Satan has been defeated through the Cross. Principalities and powers have been spoiled (Col. 2:15). We are enforcing this victory through applying the Cross of Calvary to the pulling down strongholds by placing and maintain our Faith exclusively in Christ and the Finished Work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won, i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." Our source of Power is the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.

The LORD shall fight for you, and you shall hold your peace (Exodus 14:14). "In Justification, the Lord fights 'for' us, and in Sanctification, He fights 'in' us."

Two kinds of peace
  1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing. Rom. 8:7; Eph. 2:14-15
  2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart. Rom. 8:6; 14:19; 15:13; Gal. 1:3
The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.

Sanctifying peace allows the Holy Spirit to deliver the Believer into the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ so that the Life of Christ is manifested through the Believer by the power of the Holy Spirit (2 Cor. 4:11, Gal. 2:20-21, Romans 8:2; 13, John 14:21). We must remember, it is His Life (Christ) that brings the victory, and not ours.
 
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The role of obedience in a Christian life is Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work (The Law of the Spirit of Life In Christ Jesus - Romans 8:2). This gives the Holy Spirit the legal means (who only works in this parameter) to help us and transforms us into what we ought to be (Christlikeness - Romans 8:13). Faith in anything and everything else, the works of the flesh will manifest (Gal. 5:19-21). You are now committing Spiritual Adultery (Romans 7:1-6).

It is difficult for Believers to place their Faith exclusively in the Cross of Christ because it goes against the flesh (Romans 8:7; Gal. 5:17).


I like what you are teaching so far, but when I come to this paragraph, I hope to get some clarification from you.


Can you clarify what you mean by -

The role of obedience in a Christian life is Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work



This seems to mean that we do nothing in our Christian lifestyle in the way of obedience to live according to the Spirit.


IOW, are you teaching that we are to just believe in our heart that Christ has done everything for us and we are to do nothing at all to cooperate with the Spirit in growing and operating in spiritual maturity.


Actually, I have never found any such phrase in the Bible as -

“Faith in the finished work of Christ”.


Sorry, in advance if I am misunderstanding you.



Thanks JLB
 
I like what you are teaching so far, but when I come to this paragraph, I hope to get some clarification from you.


Can you clarify what you mean by -

The role of obedience in a Christian life is Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work

This seems to mean that we do nothing in our Christian lifestyle in the way of obedience to live according to the Spirit.

IOW, are you teaching that we are to just believe in our heart that Christ has done everything for us and we are to do nothing at all to cooperate with the Spirit in growing and operating in spiritual maturity.

Actually, I have never found any such phrase in the Bible as -

“Faith in the finished work of Christ”.

Sorry, in advance if I am misunderstanding you.

Thanks JLB
The criterion is faithfulness and not other things (Matthew 25:23). The Foundation of our belief system must be Christ and Him Crucified (Gal 6:14). The Holy Spirit mortifies the deeds of the flesh which transforms us into the image of Christ (Romans 8:13); For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: (Isaiah 28:10)

"21 Not every one who says unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven (the repetition of the word “Lord” expresses astonishment, as if to say: “Are we to be disowned?”); but he who does the Will of My Father which is in Heaven (what is the Will of the Father? Verse 23 tells us).

22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not Prophesied in Your Name? and in Your Name have cast out devils? and in Your Name done many wonderful works? (These things are not the criteria, but rather Faith in Christ and what Christ has done for us at the Cross [Eph. 2:8-9, 13-18]. The Word of God alone is to be the judge of doctrine.)

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you (again we say, the criteria alone is Christ and Him Crucified [I Cor. 1:23]): depart from Me, you who work iniquity (we have access to God only through Christ, and access to Christ only through the Cross, and access to the Cross only through a denial of self [Lk. 9:23]; any other Message is Judged by God as "iniquity," and cannot be a part of Christ (1 Cor. 1:17)." Matthew 7:21-23
 
The Holy Spirit mortifies the deeds of the flesh which transforms us into the image of Christ (Romans 8:13);


We mortify the deeds of the flesh by the power of the Spirit.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


JLB
 
We mortify the deeds of the flesh by the power of the Spirit.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


JLB
“12 Therefore, Brethren (means that Paul is addressing Believers), we are debtors (refers to what we owe Jesus Christ for what He has done for us on the Cross), not to the flesh (we do not owe anything to our own ability, meaning that such cannot save us or give us victory), to live after the flesh (“living after the flesh” pertains to our works, which God can never accept, and which can never bring us victory, but rather defeat).

13 For if you live after the flesh (after your own strength and ability, which is outside of God’s Prescribed Order), you shall die (you will not be able to live a victorious, Christian life): but if you through the Spirit (by the Power of the Holy Spirit) do mortify the deeds of the body (which the Holy Spirit Alone can do), you shall live (shall walk in victory; but once again, even at the risk of being overly repetitive, we must never forget that the Spirit works totally and completely within the confines of the Cross of Christ; this means that we must ever make the Cross the Object of our Faith, giving Him latitude to work).”
Romans 8:12-13

No man or woman can change their life without the Holy Spirit. Can an Ethiopian change the color of his skin? Can a leopard take away its spots? Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil (Jeremiah 13:23). Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of Hosts (Zechariah 4:6).

JSM
 
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“12 Therefore, Brethren (means that Paul is addressing Believers), we are debtors (refers to what we owe Jesus Christ for what He has done for us on the Cross), not to the flesh (we do not owe anything to our own ability, meaning that such cannot save us or give us victory), to live after the flesh (“living after the flesh” pertains to our works, which God can never accept, and which can never bring us victory, but rather defeat).

13 For if you live after the flesh (after your own strength and ability, which is outside of God’s Prescribed Order), you shall die (you will not be able to live a victorious, Christian life): but if you through the Spirit (by the Power of the Holy Spirit) do mortify the deeds of the body (which the Holy Spirit Alone can do), you shall live (shall walk in victory; but once again, even at the risk of being overly repetitive, we must never forget that the Spirit works totally and completely within the confines of the Cross of Christ; this means that we must ever make the Cross the Object of our Faith, giving Him latitude to work).”
Romans 8:12-13

No man or woman can change their life without the Holy Spirit. Can an Ethiopian change the color of his skin? Can a leopard take away its spots? Neither can you start doing good, for you have always done evil (Jeremiah 13:23). Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of Hosts (Zechariah 4:6).

JSM


We mortify the deeds of the flesh by the power of the Spirit.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


JLB
 
We mortify the deeds of the flesh by the power of the Spirit.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13


JLB


I think we’re saying the same thing. I hope.



JLB
 
JohnDB , WIP, JLB, OzSpen

I'd like to discuss the "Sin Nature" and it's implications toward the eternal home of infants, mentally challenged or culturally deprived societies that have never heard the gospel let alone the name of Jesus.

I would like to hash this out and come up with a single paragraph to replace our current statement listed below as I find the below lacking in these areas.

We support the biblical teaching that all people are lost in sin and are born with a sinful nature. They can be saved by repentance, forgiveness and faith in Jesus Christ's death (blood sacrifice) and resurrection. No human merit or performance earns salvation

I like the statement.
 
that not what the sin nature is any one with common sense should know babies do not die and go to hell . there has to be a sin awareness and understanding of the need to be saved . this varies in age for understanding . i dunno maybe my input is not wanted

I disagree. I believe all unsaved babies go to hell. We're all conceived in sin. Where else should a sinner go.
 
I disagree. I believe all unsaved babies go to hell. We're all conceived in sin. Where else should a sinner go.


Does a baby know right from wrong?


Can a baby believe in Christ with all its heart?


Babies are innocent.




JLB
 
Does a baby know right from wrong?


Can a baby believe in Christ with all its heart?


Babies are innocent.




JLB

Can a baby be given a present (in this case faith)? Can a baby be rescued? Can a baby have new life breathed into them by God?
 
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