What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

    Read The Gospel Online.

Bible Study good Friday

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,038.00
Goal
$1,038.00
Donate View
dianegcook said:
In John 20:17 states that Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father, which I was taught that the prohibition was due to the waving of the sheaf of the firstfruits before the Lord, the MORROW AFTER the Sabbath, which was He representing the firstfruits from the dead.
Click to expand...
Actually I have always believed that it wasn't for such a spiritual reason.
More along the lines of extreme emotion.

(She was squeezing him and wouldn't stop)

Women do tend to get a bit emotional when a loved one comes back from the dead.
Just saying...
 
JohnDB said:
Actually I have always believed that it wasn't for such a spiritual reason.
More along the lines of extreme emotion.

(She was squeezing him and wouldn't stop)

Women do tend to get a bit emotional when a loved one comes back from the dead.
Just saying...
Click to expand...
I'm not so sure John. This verse has always alluded me, yet for years I can feel it deep within my soul each time I read it.

We know Mary is deeply troubled when she arrives and finds the tomb empty. I understand the fog in her mind and the weight of the recent events and I tend to think Mary understood the resurrection in her head, but it hadn't quiet connected in her heart. Imagine then for a moment when she realizes this gardener is actually Jesus! What a bag of mixed emotions! And so yes, she naturally clings to him. Imagine what was racing through her mind, but more importantly, none of that matters at that moment. Full of emotion, she clings, and here is where I think you've hit something. Is she clinging because she doesn't want to loose him again? Perhaps. Within this narrative, I hear Jesus gently saying, dear woman, there is no need to cling to me, im not going anywhere yet and I'll be here awhile longer. Now, go tell the others.

As far as what dianegcook had mentioned about the Omer not yet being waved, I have not heard of that before but she very well could be on to something and personally, if like to explore it for the sake of due diligence because one never knows what one will find.

I do follow a new Exodus theology where John uses the writing style of first mention. In regard to John 20 when Mary mistakes Jesus for a gardener, I believe John is pointing us back to "The Garden". Is there something I've missed with Mary? My Spirit cries yes!
 
JohnDB said:
Actually I have always believed that it wasn't for such a spiritual reason.
More along the lines of extreme emotion.

(She was squeezing him and wouldn't stop)

Women do tend to get a bit emotional when a loved one comes back from the dead.
Just saying...
Click to expand...
I thought it was on the line of, don't hold me back.
Got things to do, I have to ascend to My Father.
 
StoveBolts said:
I'm not so sure John. This verse has always alluded me, yet for years I can feel it deep within my soul each time I read it.

We know Mary is deeply troubled when she arrives and finds the tomb empty. I understand the fog in her mind and the weight of the recent events and I tend to think Mary understood the resurrection in her head, but it hadn't quiet connected in her heart. Imagine then for a moment when she realizes this gardener is actually Jesus! What a bag of mixed emotions! And so yes, she naturally clings to him. Imagine what was racing through her mind, but more importantly, none of that matters at that moment. Full of emotion, she clings, and here is where I think you've hit something. Is she clinging because she doesn't want to loose him again? Perhaps. Within this narrative, I hear Jesus gently saying, dear woman, there is no need to cling to me, im not going anywhere yet and I'll be here awhile longer. Now, go tell the others.

As far as what dianegcook had mentioned about the Omer not yet being waved, I have not heard of that before but she very well could be on to something and personally, if like to explore it for the sake of due diligence because one never knows what one will find.

I do follow a new Exodus theology where John uses the writing style of first mention. In regard to John 20 when Mary mistakes Jesus for a gardener, I believe John is pointing us back to "The Garden". Is there something I've missed with Mary? My Spirit cries yes!
Click to expand...
I always believed that if He hadn't ascend to the Father yet, how could He had been the first fruits from the dead?
 
StoveBolts said:
I'll have to look into that a bit more.

Here is what I had time to put together. Please let me know what you make of it.

Diane,

Lets look closer at Leviticus 23.
Starting in verse 4, we see the discussion starts with the Passover Ordinances.
We see that Passover starts at twilight on the 14th (verse 5.
On the 15th, the festival of unleavened bread begins (verse 6).
We see from the language in verse 7 that the 15th is a High Sabbath. This festival continues for seven day and the seventh day is also a High Sabbath.

Verses 9 - 14 describe how the First Fruits are offered on the day after the Sabbath, which is the festival of unleavened bread. (verse 11). This is not to be confused with the festival of harvest aka Pentecost (the reaping of the First fruits).

Leviticus 23:11 Jewish Bible - And he shall wave the omer before the Lord so that it will be acceptable for you; the kohen shall wave it on the day after the rest day.
Rashi Commentary:
on the day after the rest day: מִמָּחֳרַת הַשַּׁבָּת. On the day after the first holy day of Passover, [since a holy festival day is also שַׁבָָּת, rest day , in Scripture]. For if you say [that it means] the “Sabbath of Creation” [i.e., the actual Sabbath, the seventh day of the week], you would not know which one. - [Men. 66a]
( https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9924#showrashi=true )

Verse 15 now begins the count for when Pentecost will occur which will be 50 days from the day after the first High Sabbath. Jews call this duration counting the Omer.

Pentecost is the festival when the first fruits from the harvest are brought in and is also called Shavout denoting the festival and the day commemorating the day the 10 Commandments were given.

Passover and Pentecost are tied together and the day of the week they land on floats depending on the year. What can also confuse folks is how verse 11 and 16 are related even though they are 50 days apart.

Just like the Bible views the night of the 15th as the night of the 14th when the Lamb is eaten (before the end of the day), The First Fruits start on the 16th, yet are celebrated 50 days later on Pentecost.
Click to expand...
Thanks, will check it out.
 
dianegcook said:
I always believed that if He hadn't ascend to the Father yet, how could He had been the first fruits from the dead?
Click to expand...
In Acts 1, we see Jesus ascend to the Father. This is on day 40 from the day of his resurrection, according to Luke. Additionally, the first fruits were offered on the 16th of Nisan (the day Jesus arose from the grave) and the feast of the first fruits began on Pentecost 50 days later.

10 days after Jesus ascended would be Pentecost, which we spoke of earlier.

It's kinda fun seeing how this all ties together!
 
Last edited:
StoveBolts said:
Diane,
You may enjoy this article as well. It explains it much better than I can.
This site is a very good source of Jewish information. They are what we could call Orthodox Jews and are very strict in keeping the commandments.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2836007/jewish/The-Names-of-Shavuot.htm
Click to expand...
Thanks, will check it out.
StoveBolts said:
I'll have to look into that a bit more.

Here is what I had time to put together. Please let me know what you make of it.

Diane,

Lets look closer at Leviticus 23.
Starting in verse 4, we see the discussion starts with the Passover Ordinances.
We see that Passover starts at twilight on the 14th (verse 5.
On the 15th, the festival of unleavened bread begins (verse 6).
We see from the language in verse 7 that the 15th is a High Sabbath. This festival continues for seven day and the seventh day is also a High Sabbath.

Verses 9 - 14 describe how the First Fruits are offered on the day after the Sabbath, which is the festival of unleavened bread. (verse 11). This is not to be confused with the festival of harvest aka Pentecost (the reaping of the First fruits).

Leviticus 23:11 Jewish Bible - And he shall wave the omer before the Lord so that it will be acceptable for you; the kohen shall wave it on the day after the rest day.
Rashi Commentary:
on the day after the rest day: מִמָּחֳרַת הַשַּׁבָּת. On the day after the first holy day of Passover, [since a holy festival day is also שַׁבָָּת, rest day , in Scripture]. For if you say [that it means] the “Sabbath of Creation” [i.e., the actual Sabbath, the seventh day of the week], you would not know which one. - [Men. 66a]
( https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9924#showrashi=true )

Verse 15 now begins the count for when Pentecost will occur which will be 50 days from the day after the first High Sabbath. Jews call this duration counting the Omer.

Pentecost is the festival when the first fruits from the harvest are brought in and is also called Shavout denoting the festival and the day commemorating the day the 10 Commandments were given.

Passover and Pentecost are tied together and the day of the week they land on floats depending on the year. What can also confuse folks is how verse 11 and 16 are related even though they are 50 days apart.

Just like the Bible views the night of the 15th as the night of the 14th when the Lamb is eaten (before the end of the day), The First Fruits start on the 16th, yet are celebrated 50 days later on Pentecost.
Click to expand...
I found it interesting in Verse, 39, the 7 day period,
As the Passover, the 7 day period is kinda the same.
That He notes, you have more time, than one day, to do this.

I also find, thank God, I don't have to keep up with all these ordinances!
Col.2:14-17
 
dianegcook said:
Thanks, will check it out.

I found it interesting in Verse, 39, the 7 day period,
As the Passover, the 7 day period is kinda the same.
He notes, you have more time, than one day, to do this.

I also find, thank God, I don't have to keep up with all these ordinances!
Col.2:14-17
Click to expand...
You said verse 39, I think you meant verse 9, right?

Verse 9 is talking about how the festival of unleavened bread which lasts for 7 days and there is to be no yeast in the home and every day they eat unleavened bread.

The first day is a high Sabbath (15th). The second day is the First Fruits (16th). First Fruits were only offered on the 16th. The 16th day also starts the 50-day count toward Pentecost when the next feast occurred.. The last day (7th day) is also a high Sabbath (22nd) and ends the festival of unleavened bread. Yeast is once again allowed in the home.

Pulling this full circle, Jesus was raised on the 16th and the 16th was a Sunday that particular year.

How do we know this? Because Scripture says he was raised on the first day of the week which is Sunday.

We also know that Jesus was raised on the 16th because that's the day the first fruits were offered and Paul attests to this. As mentioned, the 15th is a high sabbath, and Jesus was raised the day after the Sabbath.

We need to keep in mind all those ordinances pointed to spiritual realities and as your finding out, living by them takes a great deal of understanding. This understanding should expand our spiritual understanding and how that is realized in Christ.

God Bless
 
StoveBolts said:
In Acts 1, we see Jesus ascend to the Father. This is on day 40 from the day of his resurrection, according to Luke. Additionally, the first fruits were offered on the 16th of Nisan (the day Jesus arose from the grave) and the feast of the first fruits began on Pentecost 50 days later.

10 days after Jesus ascended would be Pentecost, which we spoke of earlier.

It's kinda fun seeing how this all ties together!
Click to expand...
Yes, all things tie together,
I believe we all agree on His resurrection, sometime before dawn on the first day of the week.
All do not agree on the 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth.
Due to Him being in the heart of the earth, how could He present the sheaf?
Thus, He could had presented Himself, after the first day of first fruits.
As noted, on the site you presented verse 39, his notes.
You have 7 days to do this.
 
StoveBolts said:
You said verse 39, I think you meant verse 9, right?

Verse 9 is talking about how the festival of unleavened bread which lasts for 7 days and there is to be no yeast in the home and every day they eat unleavened bread.

The first day is a high Sabbath (15th). The second day is the First Fruits (16th). First Fruits were only offered on the 16th. The 16th day also starts the 50-day count toward Pentecost when the next feast occurred.. The last day (7th day) is also a high Sabbath (22nd) and ends the festival of unleavened bread. Yeast is once again allowed in the home.

Pulling this full circle, Jesus was raised on the 16th and the 16th was a Sunday that particular year.

How do we know this? Because Scripture says he was raised on the first day of the week which is Sunday.

We also know that Jesus was raised on the 16th because that's the day the first fruits were offered and Paul attests to this. As mentioned, the 15th is a high sabbath, and Jesus was raised the day after the Sabbath.

We need to keep in mind all those ordinances pointed to spiritual realities and as your finding out, living by them takes a great deal of understanding. This understanding should expand our spiritual understanding and how that is realized in Christ.

God Bless
Click to expand...
I was referring to your post #257.
You had given a site of Chabad.org, verse 39 of that.
His notes under 7 day period.
They have 7 days to present.
 
dianegcook said:
Yes, all things tie together,
I believe we all agree on His resurrection, sometime before dawn on the first day of the week.
All do not agree on the 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth.
Due to Him being in the heart of the earth, how could He present the sheaf?
Thus, He could had presented Himself, after the first day of first fruits.
As noted, on the site you presented verse 39, his notes.
You have 7 days to do this.
Click to expand...
I'm lost, can you quote verse 39?

Also, since the or ordinances pointed to heavily things, often the function of the item is usually where the deeper meanings come from.

For example, the Altar. What was the function of the Altar? If we understand this, then we can begin to see how the Cross functioned in the same way. To add another element, we can bring in the Table, because the table is closely tied to the altar. What we find is the altar grounds the table.

So, when we look at the waving of the Omer, we don't focus on the mechanics, although the mechanics are important. What we look at is what function did it serve.
 
dianegcook said:
Note 7 day period
If one did not bring it on day one( day of the feast) he may still bring it on another.
Click to expand...
Yes, but I believe the Kohen (Priest) waived the Omer first on the 16th. Afterward, others were allowed to bring their offering..

Think of it like the Altar in the way things were offered. The Burnt offering was first and its function was to cleanse the Kohen so they could offer for the people. Without the Kohen being cleansed , they could not perform their duties. In other words, the Kohen performed their duties before the could perform the duties to Israel.

So, coming full circle, the Kohen waved the first Omer on the 16th and that's what were concerned with.

Think of it like this, would not Christ be the first? Or would there be others before him?

Again, it comes back to purpose and function.
 
StoveBolts said:
Yes, but I believe the Kohen (Priest) waived the Omer first on the 16th. Afterward, others were allowed to bring their offering..

Think of it like the Altar in the way things were offered. The Burnt offering was first and its function was to cleanse the Kohen so they could offer for the people. Without the Kohen being cleansed , they could not perform their duties. In other words, the Kohen performed their duties before the could perform the duties to Israel.

So, coming full circle, the Kohen waved the first Omer on the 16th and that's what were concerned with.

Think of it like this, would not Christ be the first? Or would there be others before him?

Again, it comes back to purpose and function.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree.

So you are saying, after MORROW, after the High Sabbath, is the first day of sheaf waving, which fell on what day of the week?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you believe He was crucified on Friday????
 
dianegcook said:
Yes, I agree.

So you are saying, after MORROW, after the High Sabbath, is the first day of sheaf waving, which fell on what day of the week?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you believe He was crucified on Friday????
Click to expand...
According to the Bible, The "sheaf waving" is always on the 16th. Depending on the year, the day may change.

Jesus was crucified on the Day of Preparation, which is the 14th. Again, this "day of the week" changes each year.

What is consistent is what occurs on each of the three days? (14th, 15th and 16th.)
 
for_his_glory said:
:confused2 glad I'm not a Jew. You really need a rule book for all of that :thud
Click to expand...
This is the easy stuff to understand and live out. Add the rest of the 613 and you'll start to realize that the law teaches discernment. Often, two laws will conflict, so the law with the more weight in the situation takes priority.

Most Christians have no clue when they talk about the law. And no, I am far from understanding all of it... I know very little.
 
JLB said:
Amen.
Click to expand...
Of course, we both agree that in our modern thinking 3 literal nights is impossible yet we both support a 14th crucifiction and death with the resurection occurring on the 16th.

Do you understand from Exodus how three nights is supported? I ask because Salvation came to the Jews first, then us gentiles. Jesus said to his Jewish brothers he would give them the sign of Jonah. Remember, the Jews sought signs because God made himself known through the great signs and wonders in Egypt when he showed his superiority over all the Gods of Egypt. Even the breast plate and the therum validated Gods signs to his people.

So imagine for a moment the Jews trying to make since of yiur explanation for three nights. I say this respectfully, bit they would laugh at you. Worse yet, they would claim that Jesus did not fulfil the sign he promised and he would have been deemed a false prophet because he did not fulfil his sign. As a result, as a sign to the Jews, both three nights and three days HAD to be accounted for.

Jewish thinking is much different than gentile thinking because Torah shaped the thought process of the Jews as well as their culture.

This is why I ask if you understand how Jesus fulfilled his sign within Jewish thought. The answer lies within the narrative of Passover.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top