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Bible Study Are The Laws Done Away With?

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Nathan12 said:
So do you agree or not? The Law of Moses was not nailed to the cross. The charges against us for violating the Law of Moses were nailed to the cross and canceled.
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The law of Moses was nailed to the cross, having been taken out of the way, and abolished in His flesh.


The law of Moses was always temporary, until the Messiah should come and fulfill it.


having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Ephesians 2:15


having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14



What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19


  • It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come


Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. Romans 7:4



For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 7:12



Our High Priest is not a Levite, for He is after the order of Melchizedek.



We are under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses.






JLB
 
ezrider said:
Are you not the one calling for his repentance?



I endorse the Lord to sit on His thrown and trust to His judgements. Who are you that you should climb into the seat of Moses declaring right from wrong? Have you not understood the gospel?
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Obviously you don’t understand that Judaism is a religion that does not believe in the New Testament writings, nor do they believe Jesus is Messiah, or baptism.


They meet in synagogues on Saturday.


Were you unaware of this?


It’s not a secret.


By all means don’t believe take my word for it, go to a synagogue and ask the Rabbi yourself.






JLB
 
Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God.
Then all who heard were amazed, and said, “Is this not he who destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and has come here for that purpose, so that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?”
But Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this Jesus is the Christ.
Saul Escapes Death
Now after many days were past, the Jews plotted to kill him.
Acts 9:20-23




JLB
 
creating a list of God's commands to show how good they are and how applicable they are today - it will take me a while to go through the 66 books but here is the beginning of it

God
  1. Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Exodus 20:3)
  2. Not to blaspheme (Exodus 22:28) (negative).
  3. To hallow God's name and not profane God's name (Leviticus 22:32)
  4. To know that God is One, a complete Unity (Deuteronomy 6:4)
  5. To love God (Deuteronomy 6:5)
  6. To serve God reverently (Deuteronomy 6:13, Deuteronomy 10:20)
  7. Not to test/tempt God (Deuteronomy 6:16) (negative).
  8. To cleave to Him (Deuteronomy 10:20)
God's Words / Commands / Instructions
  1. To teach it to your children (Deuteronomy 6:7)
  2. Not to add or subtract from God's commandments (Deuteronomy 12:32)
  3. To imitate His good and upright ways as per His commandments (Deuteronomy 28:9)
Love Others
  1. To love and not bear grudges (Leviticus 19:18)
  2. Not to stand by idly when a human life is in danger (Leviticus 19:16)
  3. Not to wrong any one (Leviticus 25:17) .
  4. Not to carry tales (Leviticus 19:16)
  5. Not to hate or shame people (Leviticus 19:17) .
  6. Not to curse others or cause them to stumble or sin (Leviticus 19:14)
  7. To rebuke the sinner (Leviticus 19:17)
  8. To help people and their animals who are in trouble (Exodus 23:5, Deuteronomy 22:4)
  9. To love the stranger (Deuteronomy 10:19, Exodus 22:21)
The Poor and Unfortunate
  1. Not to refrain from maintaining a poor man and giving him what he needs (Deuteronomy 15:7)
  2. To give charity according to one's means (Deuteronomy 15:11)


note:
using this list to compile my own http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
 
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Truthfrees said:
creating a list of God's commands to show how good they are and how applicable they are today - it will take me a while to go through the 66 books but here is the beginning of it

God
  1. Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Exodus 20:3)
  2. Not to blaspheme (Exodus 22:28) (negative).
  3. To hallow God's name and not profane God's name (Leviticus 22:32)
  4. To know that God is One, a complete Unity (Deuteronomy 6:4)
  5. To love God (Deuteronomy 6:5)
  6. To serve God reverently (Deuteronomy 6:13, Deuteronomy 10:20)
  7. Not to test/tempt God (Deuteronomy 6:16) (negative).
  8. To cleave to Him (Deuteronomy 10:20)
God's Words / Commands / Instructions
  1. To teach it to your children(Deuteronomy 6:7)
  2. Not to add or subtract from God's commandments (Deuteronomy 12:32)
  3. To imitate His good and upright ways as per His commandments (Deuteronomy 28:9)

note:
using this list to compile my own http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Click to expand...


No doubt that God is good, and His law is good.


The point I have made is the law of Moses was temporary, is des not apply to the Church.


We are under grace, the law of Christ.


Secondly, Judaism is a man made religion consisting of a mixture of the Talmud and the law of Moses, and the teachings of man, of which are applicable to the Church.


Judaism rejects Jesus as Messiah.





JLB
 
Truthfrees said:
creating a list of God's commands to show how good they are and how applicable they are today - it will take me a while to go through the 66 books but here is the beginning of it

God
  1. Not to entertain the idea that there is any god but the Eternal (Exodus 20:3)
  2. Not to blaspheme (Exodus 22:28) (negative).
  3. To hallow God's name and not profane God's name (Leviticus 22:32)
  4. To know that God is One, a complete Unity (Deuteronomy 6:4)
  5. To love God (Deuteronomy 6:5)
  6. To serve God reverently (Deuteronomy 6:13, Deuteronomy 10:20)
  7. Not to test/tempt God (Deuteronomy 6:16) (negative).
  8. To cleave to Him (Deuteronomy 10:20)
God's Words / Commands / Instructions
  1. To teach it to your children(Deuteronomy 6:7)
  2. Not to add or subtract from God's commandments (Deuteronomy 12:32)
  3. To imitate His good and upright ways as per His commandments (Deuteronomy 28:9)

note:
using this list to compile my own http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Click to expand...


Why don’t we need circumcision anymore, what changed?


What was it in the Old Testament that separated the children of Israel from the rest of the nations (that words “nations” refers to Gentiles).


What separated the children of Israel from the nations was the law of Moses, which included circumcision.


In order to bring about “one new man” from the two, the thing that divided Jew from the Gentile, the circumcised from the uncircumcised had to be removed.


The New Testament calls this thing that divided the Jew from the Gentile, the middle wall of separation.


Paul says it this way to the Ephesians - Ephesians 2:11-16


Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.


  • being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God



For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.


  • who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances


The thing that divided Jew from Gentile was the law of Moses, with its ordinances that included circumcision, as well as Sabbath laws, and the death penalty for so much as picking up sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath, and submission to the Levitical Priesthood.



The law of Moses was always temporary, as it was added until the Seed should, the Messiah.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19


It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come.




JLB
 
What's important to see is that Jesus didn't say, in regard to the Ten Commandments, to love God and your neighbor and forget the Ten Commandments. He said to love God and love your neighbor as yourself and that the Law and Prophets HANG or DEPEND on these two commandments.
 
DougK said:
What's important to see is that Jesus didn't say, in regard to the Ten Commandments, to love God and your neighbor and forget the Ten Commandments. He said to love God and love your neighbor as yourself and that the Law and Prophets HANG or DEPEND on these two commandments.
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Yes. Agreed.


The commandments are about love.


If we steal from our neighbor, then we are not loving our neighbor.


If we have other gods, before our Lord, we are not loving God with all of our heart.



For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3




Paul says it this way -


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-10



Which is the context of the next chapter -


Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:1-5




I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Romans 14:14



The food laws and feast days, as well as Sabbath laws that were of the law of Moses, are no longer part of the covenant.


Love from a pure heart and a good conscience, that springs forth from a faith that actively manifests itself by love is what pleases the Lord.



The 10 Commandments were always eternal, whereas the law of Moses was always temporary.


The 10 Commandments did not originate with Moses, as Abraham kept them by faith, 430 years before the law of Moses was added.





JLB
 
DougK said:
What's important to see is that Jesus didn't say, in regard to the Ten Commandments, to love God and your neighbor and forget the Ten Commandments. He said to love God and love your neighbor as yourself and that the Law and Prophets HANG or DEPEND on these two commandments.
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so true - and paul told timothy to devote himself to the public reading of scripture - in paul's day the 1st 39 books of the bible were the ONLY scripture available - 1 Timothy 4:13 - which is exactly what has been done each sabbath since synagogues were built - so paul was telling timothy to follow the synagogue practice of publicly reading God's laws/words/instructions

Acts 15:21 said to let the new converts start with just the basic laws BECAUSE moses is read every sabbath - meaning the new converts will learn God's laws each sabbath and decide for themselves they want to follow them all

plus paul said we are to establish God's laws not abolish them - Romans 3:31
 
Truthfrees said:
in paul's day the 1st 39 books of the bible were the ONLY scripture available
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And at that time they were only 24 books:
Torah -- 5 books
Neviim -- 8 books
Ketuvim -- 11 books

The Greek translation of the Tanakh (the LXX) split up many books to make them 39, then added another dozen apocryphal books to thoroughly corrupt the Hebrew Scriptures. But when the English translations were made they did not go back to the Hebrew division.
 
Truthfrees said:
plus paul said we are to establish God's laws not abolish them - Romans 3:31
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Still promoting the law of Moses, I see.


By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:27-31


  • By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.



We establish the law of faith, not the law of Moses


The law of Moses is not of faith.


Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Galatians 3:12



JLB
 
Nathan12 said:
And at that time they were only 24 books:
Torah -- 5 books
Neviim -- 8 books
Ketuvim -- 11 books

The Greek translation of the Tanakh (the LXX) split up many books to make them 39, then added another dozen apocryphal books to thoroughly corrupt the Hebrew Scriptures. But when the English translations were made they did not go back to the Hebrew division.
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good info - thanks for sharing - i'm not sure i knew it was so few in number

did you know that the book of Daniel was never in the hebrew bible? - not sure when or why this decision was made
 
JLB said:
Still promoting the law of Moses, I see.
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still being rude i see

JLB because of your continued attack on my character do NOT converse with me again

i have no further desire to discuss anything with someone who behaves as you do

if you want to discuss anything discuss it with others - no longer contact me
 
JLB said:
Still promoting the law of Moses, I see.
Click to expand...
The Ten Commandments (also called "the Law") are within the Law of Moses (also called "the Law"), but also within the Law of Christ (called the Royal Law or the Law of Liberty). When Paul says that Christians "establish the Law" it means that Christians maintain the validity and applicability of the Ten Commandments for themselves through the power of the Spirit. Therefore Paul says that "Love is the fulfilling of the Law".

ROMANS 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

While this passage focuses on the last six commandments, Christ already covered the first four with "the Greatest Commandment".


 
Truthfrees said:
did you know that the book of Daniel was never in the hebrew bible? - not sure when or why this decision was made
Click to expand...
That is incorrect. Daniel was always in the Hebrew Tanakh within the Ketuvim (the Psalms or Writings). There are three divisions within this section:
Sifrei Emet (Poetic) -- Psalms, Proverbs, Job (total 3 books)
The Five Megilloth -- Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther (total 5 books)
Other books -- Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah (one book), Chronicles (one book) (total 3 books)
Grand Total = 11 books
 
Nathan12 said:
That is incorrect. Daniel was always in the Hebrew Tanakh within the Ketuvim (the Psalms or Writings). There are three divisions within this section:
Sifrei Emet (Poetic) -- Psalms, Proverbs, Job (total 3 books)
The Five Megilloth -- Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, Esther (total 5 books)
Other books -- Daniel, Ezra-Nehemiah (one book), Chronicles (one book) (total 3 books)
Grand Total = 11 books
Click to expand...
ok - i better check it out
 
Nathan12 said:
The Ten Commandments (also called "the Law") are within the Law of Moses (also called "the Law"), but also within the Law of Christ (called the Royal Law or the Law of Liberty). When Paul says that Christians "establish the Law" it means that Christians maintain the validity and applicability of the Ten Commandments for themselves through the power of the Spirit. Therefore Paul says that "Love is the fulfilling of the Law".
Click to expand...


I agree mostly.


You would need to understand that The Ten Commandments did not originate with Moses.


Abraham kept them by faith, 430 years before the law was added.



JLB
 
JLB said:
You would need to understand that The Ten Commandments did not originate with Moses.
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True. The Ten Commandments are God's eternal moral and spiritual standards for all mankind (enhanced within the Sermon of the Mount). Within the New Covenant they are not written on tablets of stone, but within regenerated hearts. The fact that God Himself wrote them on tablets of stone confirms that Moses simply brought them down from Sinai, and eventually placed them within the Ark of the Covenant.

For the unsaved, they establish the guilt of the human race and are designed to drive sinners to the Savior. For the saved, they establish the righteous standards of God, and become the commandments of Christ, where love (agape) fulfills the Law.
 
Nathan12 said:
True. The Ten Commandments are God's eternal moral and spiritual standards for all mankind
Click to expand...


Even pre-dating mankind, as Lucifer was thrown for coveting to be worshipped; to sit on God’s thrown.




JLB
 
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