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stovebolts

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Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

All of this chatter about sinning and salvation, I think that it's important to know that the Ministry of Jesus was to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10).

It was a ministry of repentance (John 5:14, John 8:11)

In line with the ministry of John the Baptist (Matthew 21:31-32) where Jesus mingled with the sinners, not to enable them in their sin, but to bring them to salvation by the way they lived because this world matters to God, and it matters to God how we live.

1 Peter 1:15 because it is written, Ye shall be holy; for I am holy.

We will all sin, but when we sin, we have the fruits of true repentance because true repentance is about changing the way one thinks, or what one does, or does not do (Good Samaratin, two levites walked right by... they failed to 'do'). It's not just lip service and it's not about self preservation.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
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Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

All of this chatter about sinning and salvation, I think that it's important to know that the Ministry of Jesus was to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10).

It was a ministry of repentance (John 5:14, John 8:11)

In line with the ministry of John the Baptist (Matthew 21:31-32) where Jesus mingled with the sinners, not to enable them in their sin, but to bring them to salvation by the way they lived because this world matters to God, and it matters to God how we live.

1 Peter 1:15 because it is written, Ye shall be holy; for I am holy.

We will all sin, but when we sin, we have the fruits of true repentance because true repentance is about changing the way one thinks, or what one does, or does not do (Good Samaratin, two levites walked right by... they failed to 'do'). It's not just lip service and it's not about self preservation.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There are errors in your post and indications, and I will show you:

1. Firstly, tell me, do you sin? YES OR NO? IF yes, then are your sinning accidentally or willful from free will or something else, is something tampering with your free will to choose what you want to do? So why are you sinning exactly?

2. Can a person only be saved or remain saved through their continuous repentance? IN other words, are we saved and do we remain saved by REPENTING WORKS or by continuous FAITH IN JESUS?

3. Have you perfectly repented of all your sins? Yes or No? If no, do you believe you are saved or lost today?

4. 1 John 1:9 is the only verse in the entire new testament that speaks about confession of sins, and it doesn't apply to believers, it's a message to unbelievers who refused to admit and acknowledge they were sinners to begin with.

In a nutshell this verse is not talking to or about the Christian’s need to confess sins in order to be forgiven! John is talking about boastful false teachers who believed that they had never ever sinned!

John angers back at them and says that if these false teachers hoped to be saved then they needed to confess [acknowledge and admit] that they were sinners. In other words, 1 John 1:9 is referring to the point in time that a person comes to Jesus for the first time. When they come to Christ they need to first “confess” their sinfulness. These false teachers were saying that they had no sin – see 1 John 1:8. John said that they were liars and deceiving themselves – the truth was not in them – they in fact were not yet saved. Read 1 John right through and this point becomes clear. This is the only verse in the New Testament that links confession of sin with forgiveness and it is not even talking about or to believers!

If you believe that you need to badger God with your confession and repentance in order for him to provide you with forgiveness then you really do not believe that God established your forgiveness through the blood 2000 years ago.

"...Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" - Galatians 3:1-3
 
There are errors in your post and indications, and I will show you:

OK Truthseeker2012. I will answer your questions since I've notice your having a hard time getting people to answer them.

1. Firstly, tell me, do you sin? YES OR NO? IF yes, then are your sinning accidentally or willful from free will or something else, is something tampering with your free will to choose what you want to do? So why are you sinning exactly?

Yes, I do sin. Both actually, but my intent is not to sin. However, I slip up you might say, and I do so willfully at times. I guess you could say it's my free will, but it could be something else. In any case I take full responsibility for my sin, which I define as anything against God, or apart from his will.

2. Can a person only be saved or remain saved through their continuous repentance? IN other words, are we saved and do we remain saved by REPENTING WORKS or by continuous FAITH IN JESUS?
No. We are saved by grace, through faith in Christ, But I also value my salvation, and I show this through my relationship with Christ. I have to say that that relationship is tighter through repentance. But this is not how we remain saved.

3. Have you perfectly repented of all your sins? Yes or No? If no, do you believe you are saved or lost today?
No. When you say perfectly, I think you might mean completely. I believe God uses my sin that I may or may not be aware of due to my human physical limitation to draw me even closer to him. Yes I believe I am still saved . Defiantly. If my salvation is a big maybe and I won't know until I am glorified or condemned then I'll just hang it all up right now, because I can not actually live up to the standard of Christ. Go ahead and burn me on up now. However, the bible does not teach me this, and since my relationship with Christ has been ongoing and building despite my human limitations then I know Christ loves me in spite of my failed self. And I love Christ. In my love and reverence for God who loves me in spite of me I walk as best i can in his path. Part of that walk is being told when I'm wrong, accepting that in my repentance....part of the lords prayer is "Forgive me of my trespasses, or debts."

4. 1 John 1:9 is the only verse in the entire new testament that speaks about confession of sins, and it doesn't apply to believers, it's a message to unbelievers who refused to admit and acknowledge they were sinners to begin with.

Foul! Literal readings! Number 2012. :) There are other verses that speak to the nature and importance of confessing one's sin. However, confession and repentance are closely related. Can you do one without the other? While I agree that our salvation does not hinge on constant repentance/confession, there is an on going element in our relationship with Christ through this continued act, and we should give it some weight. It's a very necessary element growth in Christ as Christians. If we are calling ourselves saved sinners, wouldn't we want to also flee from sin in our lives as best we can? And does that not require an element of conscious effort on our part, where we have to admit from time to time that we are wrong on our ways, thinking, feelings that can be labeled as sin in the eyes of God?

In a nutshell this verse is not talking to or about the Christian’s need to confess sins in order to be forgiven! John is talking about boastful false teachers who believed that they had never ever sinned!

John angers back at them and says that if these false teachers hoped to be saved then they needed to confess [acknowledge and admit] that they were sinners. In other words, 1 John 1:9 is referring to the point in time that a person comes to Jesus for the first time. When they come to Christ they need to first “confess†their sinfulness. These false teachers were saying that they had no sin – see 1 John 1:8. John said that they were liars and deceiving themselves – the truth was not in them – they in fact were not yet saved. Read 1 John right through and this point becomes clear. This is the only verse in the New Testament that links confession of sin with forgiveness and it is not even talking about or to believers!

If you believe that you need to badger God with your confession and repentance in order for him to provide you with forgiveness then you really do not believe that God established your forgiveness through the blood 2000 years ago.

"...Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" - Galatians 3:1-3

I can follow you on this for the most part as it relates to our salvation. I think your very correct. But on the point of our relationship with Christ, which is also an important element if we in fact value our salvation, The we should repent and confess. Heck I do it all the time to my wife for the same reasons; my relationship with her. :)

Now, I forgive her instantly, but thank God he's not like her when it comes to forgiving me, or I'd be in the dog house with God all the time.
 
What exactly is sin so I would repent? Is it entirely defined by the ten commandments or by the two greatest commandments? When am I alright with God and above reproach so I can just be me and may rest from my works?
 
OK Truthseeker2012. I will answer your questions since I've notice your having a hard time getting people to answer them.



Yes, I do sin. Both actually, but my intent is not to sin. However, I slip up you might say, and I do so willfully at times. I guess you could say it's my free will, but it could be something else. In any case I take full responsibility for my sin, which I define as anything against God, or apart from his will. ...

You have openly admitted Danus that you continue to sin, which means you admit you continue breaking God's law and 10 Commandments.

So tell me.. do you believe you can be accepted by God and inherit eternal life and be saved if you continue sinning as you have been? Yes or No?
 
What exactly is sin so I would repent? Is it entirely defined by the ten commandments or by the two greatest commandments? When am I alright with God and above reproach so I can just be me and may rest from my works?

You asked what SIN IS and this verse tells you:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now I ask you..do you believe you can be accepted by God and inherit eternal life if you continue to transgress and break God's Holy Law? Yes or No?


 
4. 1 John 1:9 is the only verse in the entire new testament that speaks about confession of sins, and it doesn't apply to believers, it's a message to unbelievers who refused to admit and acknowledge they were sinners to begin with.

In a nutshell this verse is not talking to or about the Christian’s need to confess sins in order to be forgiven! John is talking about boastful false teachers who believed that they had never ever sinned!

John angers back at them and says that if these false teachers hoped to be saved then they needed to confess [acknowledge and admit] that they were sinners. In other words, 1 John 1:9 is referring to the point in time that a person comes to Jesus for the first time. When they come to Christ they need to first “confess†their sinfulness. These false teachers were saying that they had no sin – see 1 John 1:8. John said that they were liars and deceiving themselves – the truth was not in them – they in fact were not yet saved. Read 1 John right through and this point becomes clear. This is the only verse in the New Testament that links confession of sin with forgiveness and it is not even talking about or to believers!
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life—
1Jn 1:2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
1Jn 1:3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.
1Jn 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. (NKJV)

John is clearly talking to believers, about believers, about themselves.
 
...John is clearly talking to believers, about believers, about themselves.

INCORRECT!!!!


Paul wrote about two-thirds of the New Testament. Now, if confession of sin in order to be forgiven and to be right with God is so important to the believer, then Paul has done us a great injustice by not mentioning it in his letters to us, the church.

But you will never find Paul teaching that to the Church. Confession of sin to be made righteousness appears only once in 1 John 1:9, and it is addressed to non-believers.

The clue is in the verse before 9, and the preceding verse itself gives the answer.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Will a Christian say that he has "no sin"? NO!! Only an unbeliever may say that!

In the first place, a person became a Christian by acknowledging before God that he was a sinner in need of the Saviour. Furthermore, most Christians today are so sin-conscious, rather than righteous-conscious. In fact, some Christians still call themselves, as well as fellow Christians, sinners!

Obviously, the verse is not for Christians, but for non-believers who say that they have no sin. John tells such people that they are deceiving themselves. But he also assures them that if they acknowledge that they are sinners, then there is a way out for them -- if they confess their sinfulness to God, God is faithful and just to Christ and His finished work, and will forgive them and wash away all their sins, and make them righteous forever by the blood of His Son.

Another clue as to why this verse is not for the Christian is the phrase, "the truth is not in us". Christians have the Spirit of truth, which is the Holy Spirit, in them. Non-believers don't.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you [after Pentecost].

ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT BELIEVERS DO NOT HAVE THE TRUTH IN THEM?:screwloose
 
You have openly admitted Danus that you continue to sin, which means you admit you continue breaking God's law and 10 Commandments.

So tell me.. do you believe you can be accepted by God and inherit eternal life and be saved if you continue sinning as you have been? Yes or No?

I'm not on trial by a jury of my peers, for my sin, since there is no jury of my peers worthy of the duty themselves.

I've already admitted my guilt to the judge. Your asking me if the judge will condemn me. Well, not according to my attorney, and I have the best attorney who works Pro bono publico :) In fact I could not pay him if I tried.

I can't NOT fully continue to not sin. I can try, and I can do my best, but there is NO way in haven I can represent myself in this case through my efforts not to sin, and neither can anyone else, because even if I am guilty of a speck of the full body of law, I am guilty of the entire law library.

The judge can either pardon, in essence, or hold me to the penalty of the laws for which I am guilty of breaking. he's powerful enough to do that. My attorney says that since I can't fully pay the fine, or penalty, or sentence of the law I've broken, and that the judge would like for me to have a way out of this mess because he loves me, then the judge as made a way for me to get off and be set free from the law. Now get this, he (My Attorney) says that he will pay the fines....my fines. In fact he said he already put down the deposit and that all I have to do is accept it.

Now I agreed to this deal 20 years ago and since then I have continued to break some of the laws, but as I mentioned I'm guilty of all the laws even though I broke a few more after accepting this plea deal so to speak. I hate that I did, but my attorney tells me it's OK. See I was not sure and I have meetings with him daily, but he assures me the deal still stands as long as I accepted the deal back then, there is nothing I can do to make the deal any sweeter today since I can't keep the laws anyway and the judge knows this. so the only way I can be set free from the law is through my attorney, the one who represents me.

Now my attorney tells me also that these laws are in place for my benefit and while I can't keep them I should know of them and avoid breaking them as best I can for my own benefit, but as for the deal it still stands. He will take the wrap for me, and he's on call 24/7 if I have a question or would like to know more about the law as it applies to me in my life right now. All I have to do is call this number in prayer. The number is rep-entp-ray :lol (These crazy lawyers and there letter phone numbers)

This fact has caused me some distress since he's paying the price in my place and we have become very good friends. I mean he's everywhere I go. I figure I owe him all I have even if he does not need it, and even though all I have is nothing compared to what he has.

Then...get this...turns out my attorney and the judge are in fact one in the same. See I've been afraid of this judge, but now that I know he's the attorney also and that he wants me free of these laws that I can't keep and he's paying my fines....I mean that does something to me. It makes me want to do for him.

So to answer your question, YES, because he already has. I was accepted before. It's not about me being accepted as much as it is about me accepting his acceptance of me in the first place. How can I not? I mean why would he want me to begin with?
 
..So to answer your question, YES, because he already has...

Ok, thank you for answering and replying honestly. You believe you can be accepted by God, inherit eternal life and be saved if you continue to sin and continue to break God's Law and 10 Commandments!

Welcome to GRACE AND MERCY! :thumbsup And it seems you have accepted and trust in Jesus to be your 100% complete and one and only sole Savior and you do not trust in yourself to be your own Savior.
 
You asked what SIN IS and this verse tells you:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now I ask you..do you believe you can be accepted by God and inherit eternal life if you continue to transgress and break God's Holy Law? Yes or No?


This scripture does not exactly define sin. For example Jesus was accused of working on the Sabbath and blaspheme. Interpretation of law is for lawyers and Satan can use the law to condemn anything, being an overzealous and merciless prosecutor. I also would point out that sin existed in man before the giving of the law so that the law only makes it more apparrant. Through the knowledge of good and evil were men made judges of one another in carnal comparisons, envy, covetousness etc... But it is the false image of god that corrupts the mind and darkens the heart. Get rid of pride headed the wrong direction and one can subdue sin.

So it is that the pharisees felt they followed the law, dotting every i and crossing every t, but yet failed by crucifying the Christ. They strained the gnat and swallowed the camel. They cleaned the outside of the cup instead of the inside. So I don't give credence to the law as a solution for sin.
Now I ask you..do you believe you can be accepted by God and inherit eternal life if you continue to transgress and break God's Holy Law? Yes or No?

The way you have worded this question I would have to honestly answer no. While I understand your intention to say God does not condemn according to the law, we condemn ourselves in hypocrisy without the law. It is apparant that flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom of God and it is the carnal mind that sins not the spiritual or inner man. Your question is like asking if God accepts us even as we discard Him. Rather a trick question. Jesus did not die to make sin okay but to put an end to vanity and iniquity.
 
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There are errors in your post and indications, and I will show you:

1. Firstly, tell me, do you sin? YES OR NO? IF yes, then are your sinning accidentally or willful from free will or something else, is something tampering with your free will to choose what you want to do? So why are you sinning exactly?

2. Can a person only be saved or remain saved through their continuous repentance? IN other words, are we saved and do we remain saved by REPENTING WORKS or by continuous FAITH IN JESUS?

3. Have you perfectly repented of all your sins? Yes or No? If no, do you believe you are saved or lost today?

4. 1 John 1:9 is the only verse in the entire new testament that speaks about confession of sins, and it doesn't apply to believers, it's a message to unbelievers who refused to admit and acknowledge they were sinners to begin with.

In a nutshell this verse is not talking to or about the Christian’s need to confess sins in order to be forgiven! John is talking about boastful false teachers who believed that they had never ever sinned!

John angers back at them and says that if these false teachers hoped to be saved then they needed to confess [acknowledge and admit] that they were sinners. In other words, 1 John 1:9 is referring to the point in time that a person comes to Jesus for the first time. When they come to Christ they need to first “confess” their sinfulness. These false teachers were saying that they had no sin – see 1 John 1:8. John said that they were liars and deceiving themselves – the truth was not in them – they in fact were not yet saved. Read 1 John right through and this point becomes clear. This is the only verse in the New Testament that links confession of sin with forgiveness and it is not even talking about or to believers!

If you believe that you need to badger God with your confession and repentance in order for him to provide you with forgiveness then you really do not believe that God established your forgiveness through the blood 2000 years ago.

"...Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" - Galatians 3:1-3

You certainly must be posting in the wrong topic... I'm talking about knowing that your sinning, and you don't care because "Grace" has got your back...

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

God does not want us to sin. Jesus does not want us to sin.

Jesus himself even said, John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

And again, Jesus says, John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

If you want to willfully sin, go right ahead, but your going against what God wants of you and when something worse happens to you, you've got nobody to fault but your own stubbornness. With that, I'd say your also selfish with no regard for anyone other than yourself. When people willfully sin, it often effects others around them, and it can hurt other people around them. So if you don't care who you hurt, as long as you can get your fix of sin, then whatever, you've brought wrath upon yourself. Welcome to a taste of hell on earth.

It's almost ironic. My brother died a few months ago as a direct consequence of his lifestyle. He even told our Mom, "I'm either going to die, or end up in prison". Why? Because he didn't want to change the path he was going down... even when he knew the consequences.

So don't sit there and tell me that sinning is ok. It's not, and I'm not the only one that has a story. I'm sure you have your own as well.

Scripture clearly states,

Revelation 21:7-8 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death


You can talk grace till your blue in the face, but you'll have a hard time convincing me that somebody who willfully commits the above sins with the idea that on their death bed they've got a magic ace, and all they have to do is confess Jesus as their savior and bam, they've got a free ticket into heaven, then I say balderdash. That's not grace, that's extortion.


Let's look at Esau,
Hebrew 12
13And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Do you see how Esau is placed in with the fornicators and profane? He searched for the blessing, even with tearful repentance and he did not receive the blessing, and is counted among them.


In Luke 12, we have the parable that speaks of a farmer who, in a time of famine has a bumper crop. But instead of sharing it, he builds bigger barns and stores it for himself. And what does God do? He takes that man's life. Why? Because God cares what you do!


There is also another parable in Luke 16 Where Lazarus gets sent to hell for his actions in the present world... and even in hell all he can think about is his own relatives, and not others...

Hell is a reality, both in this world and the world to come, and God cares about you in this world, and the world to come.

Again, we can talk grace all day long, and we can talk about being 'saved' all day long, but I think that God is more in the transformation business than he is in the "saving" business, because to be saved, is to be transformed.. and sometimes that takes awhile, but we can endure, and finish the race. And no, it's not about earning salvation, it's about living your life the way God created us to live, and by doing so, we can have life here, now.. today, more abundant. It's all about the way... and Jesus is that Way.


Can God transform the life of a fornicator, a murders or one that profanes? Absolutely! Scriptures even say that even the angels rejoice when this happens!

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Let's not be deceived by the lie.

Want to feel bad? Just keep on sinning...

Genesis 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Want to feel better?
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Have you ever wondered why Jesus said, "Do you want to be made well?" to the same man he said, " sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." (John 5)
 
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You certainly must be posting in the wrong topic... I'm talking about knowing that your sinning, and you don't care because "Grace" has got your back...

:chin grace has your back how? If you mean salvation then I have to say yes. Grace has your back. If you have accepted Christ as your savior, but if you mean your relationship with Christ, then grace is not what really glues that together. Especially from God's point of view.

People do this all the time; They accept Christ and want Christ to take over, but not in some particular area. Sometimes they don't even know what that area is. "Yes I love Christ, I want Christ in my life, I realize I'm no good on my own and I can't save myself."....but I'm can't stop drinking, or I can't resist the temptation of pornography, or I HATE that person in my past for what they did. ....you can add any area of sin imaginable. Is this willful sinning? Some say it is, some say it is not, but either way God gives you the freedom to continue in the area of life you refuse or feel you can't give to him. So, that's pretty willful if you ask me. (Free will)

Then the question is, are you still saved because of this weakness? You still believe in Christ, you still need him,...but there is this "THING" you have because of your imperfect limitations. Can God still save you? Yes. Will he still save you? Well, if he won't then he's made some broken promises. If he won't then he did a lot of work here that is not very valuable at all since he would be requiring more from you than he has already said you can give. If he won't then he does not seem so powerful at all.

However, if he will still save you then he is upholding his end. If he will save you then the work he did truly does diverse the glory. And, finally, if he will still save you why would we not want to give all of our lives to him?

But, is giving all of our lives being perfect? No. It just means that we are willing, and willfully so, to be followers in Christ in all we do. Will we be 100% successful. NO, because if we are there would be no need to asked for Christ help in our lives, and there would be no more growth in Christ since we are perfect in our lives.

For the non believer sin is what separates us from God. For the believer sin is what connects us to God, BUT in repentance, not in our will to sin. This for the believer is NOT about salvation. It's about our relation ship with Christ, where we get our sanctification and our edification (Improvement)

So then, we have another question; Does sanctification and or edification require repentance. YES. Because repentance is more than just saying your sorry. It's being aware of your condition, and I think it's fair to say that we need to be constantly aware of our condition, to also be constantly aware of God's salvation by grace through our faith.

Now then...let's just lock this thread on down brother. :lock
 
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Danus,

Thank you for your well mannered response, I appreciate that.

Stovebolts said:
I'm talking about knowing that your sinning, and you don't care because "Grace" has got your back...

To clarify that statement, what I'm talking about is somebody who gets the idea that it's ok to sin, and do harm because all they have to do is just say a little prayer and all is better. I'm talking about somebody who's heart is calloused to their own sin.

It is possible to go through all the right motions, and still be rejected by God. What did God say in days of old? Wasn't it something to the effect, "You honor me with your lips, but your heart is far away".

Do we all have our issues with sin? Yes, yes we do. I have my area's I struggle with, and I'm sure you do too, and when you think your above that sin, it hit's you off guard. When we measure ourselves with God's laws, we fall short, very short. Jesus even raises the bar in Matthew 5-7, and it's impossible to keep them. But Jesus knows our temptations, because he himself became a man, and was tempted, and he came with mercy and grace.

Does this mean we can't be forgiven for these sins, even though we do them over and over? I believe that he forgives us every time we falter when we ask him. 70 times 7, so no, I don't see this as "loosing ones salvation" when we fall. Because this is where your relationship with God comes into play, and because he calls us brother, we can ask him to carry those burdons, and he does.

Repenting of a sin doesn't mean that we won't fall temptaion to that sin again and again, and Jesus taught us what to pray for in that regard. If Jesus is to truly save us, then that is analogous to saying that he is transforming us. He's transforming our lives full of sin, to a better life. For an alcoholic, he's able to take that burdon away, and he's able to give strength to the one who prays, so that the tempation of getting drunk does not overcome him. But if it does, God can forgive, and give new strength over and over again, all without condemning, because he knows our struggles, and he's here to help.

I don't think God says, "I know your a drunk, go on ahead and drink, sleep around on your spouse, and don't be a part of your childrens lives cause I've got your back." {wink wink}

No, I think God says, "I know you struggle with drinking, and I want to help you stop. Hey, I sent my son, so don't feel guilty about it when you fall, I'll be there to catch you, and together, we'll get you through this and one day, you'll look back and this lifestyle will be a faint memory, and your life will be much better. Now, you might be tempted in the way future, but I'll get you through that too, cause I don't want you to forget where I've brought you from. Your my precious child, and I love you. All I ask is that you trust me, and follow in the way of my Son the best you can, and as long as your trying, it's ok when you fall, I understand, really, I do and it's ok because I won't forsake you, I'll be there and we'll get though this together.."

Salvation is as much about today, in this world that we live in, as it is in the life to come. And what a life we will have when we are in the full presense.

I do hope that this helps you understand my perspective, and I'm confident you can see the scripture behind my posting.

In closing, the way I see it, it's about relationship and transformation.
 
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Danus said:
People do this all the time; They accept Christ and want Christ to take over, but not in some particular area. Sometimes they don't even know what that area is. "Yes I love Christ, I want Christ in my life, I realize I'm no good on my own and I can't save myself."....but I'm can't stop drinking, or I can't resist the temptation of pornography, or I HATE that person in my past for what they did. ....you can add any area of sin imaginable.


This really caught my eye, because I don't see where, if preached properly, that a new believer would get the idea that they were no good without Christ. Perhaps it's this knock in their self esteem that leads them to think, "I can't.... and you fill in the blank".

Scriptures state that we are new creatures in Christ, and the old is gone. When one is saved, there's no looking back, only looking forward. And Scripture goes further to encourage us because before we say we can't, Scriptures says we can do all things through Christ who gives us strength.

If we don't understand these two fundamental truths, how is God to save us from our sin that holds us back in the present world?

Jesus is the way, and he leads us. Jesus even said, "If you love me, keep my commandments". It's our choice if we want to follow or not. And it's hard, which is why the road is narrow and few find it.
 
In closing, the way I see it, it's about relationship and transformation.

And I agree. We may see the salvation part a little different, but I know what you are talking about, and I agree.

In my youth when I was forced to attend MYU Camp at the Methodist church, we had this little campfire song you might recall it. "It only takes a spark." UhGGG I hated that song, but I think about that, and things like "faith of a mustered seed" when I think about my faith in the beginning of my relationship with Christ.

It had to be less than a mustered seed, and only a warm breeze. But, I've seen that grow and continue to grow, and I can assure you it was not because of my lack of sin or willful sin. I did not have the ability to not sin, but through that beginning of faith I believe it was God who cultivated my faith, and if that meant learning a thing or two from my sin, then so be it. ;) But the fire started by him with my will to allow it.

Struggle is a good thing. We both know why we need to suffer.
 
Personally I don't believe there is such a thing as sinning on accident.

All people sin, all people fail. Some of us just are better a building up layers of denial and justification. My pride or adultery was an accident but that gay or mormon is who is really the sinner.

meh. Same old human behavior.
 
And I agree. We may see the salvation part a little different, but I know what you are talking about, and I agree.


Struggle is a good thing. We both know why we need to suffer.

Thanks for keeping this "real" with your testimony.

I think we're all working something out, and it's ok to see things a little differntly because we've all got a different story, and God's working on each of in a different way.. I think that's why were' a body..

And yeah, I get the suffering part, and it is a good thing.

God bless, and thanks,
Jeff
 
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