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Abomination of Desolation in 70AD - Part 2

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Where is the "holy place"? Once again is the 'new temple' going to be holy? IF you believe so, please tell me what you believe makes it holy.

It's just outside the holy of holies.


JLB
 
Where is the "holy place"? Once again is the 'new temple' going to be holy? IF you believe so, please tell me what you believe makes it holy.


Excellent question. A 21st century stone temple built and operated by Talmudic Christ Rejectors will never be "Holy" by any definition.
 
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21 when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' flee, for then there will be Great Tribulation...


Who is the "you" in this passage?

Whoever see's the AOD.


Why would it be bad for whoever sees the AOD to be pregnant and/or nursing or have their flight be in winter?
Couldn't you just pack up the baby in the carseat, snap it into SUV and split no matter what season it is?... pull over when you need to nurse?

I dont think the mountains are that far of a car ride from Jerusalem that a baby can't nap in the car on the way.

And I live in Oregon.
If i "see" the AOD on TV, should I flee to the mountains too or is this JUST for Jerusalem dwellers?
 
Paul's passage in 2 Thess 2 shows that the event was already underway in his day. The son of perdition was already alive. He was at that time being restrained from his takeover of the Temple. This shows without question that it was a first century event.

I don't see the verse in 2 Thessalonians 2 that teaches that a person had in fact gone to the temple and had proclaimed himself as God, as well as worked signs and wonders leading the people away from Jesus.

No, but Paul testifies that that person was currently being restrained from his temple takeover as he wrote the letter. Necessitating a first century fulfillment.

I don't find in any of the writings of the New Testament where Jesus returned and destroyed this son of perdition by the brightness of His Coming.
The Book of Revelation is nothing less than apostolic proclamation that the events of the Tribulation were underway when John wrote it in 68AD, while exiled on Patmos by Nero. (Rev 1:9-10)

Was 2 Thessalonians 2 written in 70 AD?
Nope, Mid 50's AD, about a decade before the siege began in 66, when the Man of Sin took over the temple as prophesied.
In the mid 50's he was alive but restrained from his takeover.

What was this son of perdition's name?
Manehem, Grandson of Judas the Galilean.

http://www.livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messianic_claimants11.html

Menahem was the grandson of a rebel named Judas the Galilean. Judas believed the Jews should have no ruler but God, and of course murder was the way to accomplish this. Menahem took his Grandfather’s philosophy to new heights by raising a powerful band of cutthroats. He overpowered his opponents who preferred peace with the Romans and made a triumphant entry into Jerusalem dressed as a king. Menahem then took control of the temple and had the high priest Ananias put to death. He committed all sorts of abominations.

When the Jewish Followers of Christ "saw" this Man of Sin takeover the temple in 66AD which began the revolt, and saw him commit the Abomination that brought Desolation, they knew the desolation of the city was at hand (Just as Jesus said it would be) so they fled to the mountains, as instructed by Christ, and escaped the destruction... the Nazerene sect - Jesus' JEWISH Followers, is the ONLY surviving Sect of Judiasm, as all other Jews were slaughtered when God Violently excommunicated them out of covenant with Him, as God Promised He would for their disobedience.(Deut 28) The Nazerenes were the remnant saved from destruction, again, as prophesied.
 
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Where is the "holy place"? Once again is the 'new temple' going to be holy? IF you believe so, please tell me what you believe makes it holy.


Excellent question. A 21st century stone temple built and operated by Talmudic Christ Rejectors will never be "Holy" by any definition.

They think it will be.

They will name the place where the Show Bread is placed and the candlesticks are, The Holy Place, according to the instructions in the OT.

So that room will be called the Holy Place.


JLB
 
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21 when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' flee, for then there will be Great Tribulation...


Who is the "you" in this passage?

Whoever see's the AOD.


Why would it be bad for whoever sees the AOD to be pregnant and/or nursing or have their flight be in winter?
Couldn't you just pack up the baby in the carseat, snap it into SUV and split no matter what season it is?... pull over when you need to nurse?

I dont think the mountains are that far of a car ride from Jerusalem that a baby can't nap in the car on the way.

And I live in Oregon.
If i "see" the AOD on TV, should I flee to the mountains too or is this JUST for Jerusalem dwellers?

The folks that asked Jesus the question, may have not known what those things are.

I'm sure you would have done a better job than Jesus at explaining the whole end of the age thing.


JLB
 
No, but Paul testifies that that person was currently being restrained from his temple takeover as he wrote the letter. Necessitating a first century fulfillment.


Chapter and verse?


The Book of Revelation is nothing less than apostolic proclamation that the events of the Tribulation were underway when John wrote it in 68AD, while exiled on Patmos by Nero. (Rev 1:9-10)

Can you show from scripture where the book of Revelation was written in 68 AD?



Nope, Mid 50's AD, about a decade before the siege began in 66, when the Man of Sin took over the temple as prophesied. In the mid 50's he was alive but restrained from his takeover.


Can you show from other New Testament writings were the man of sin was destroyed by the brightness of the Coming of the Lord.

Surely with such a fulfillment of scripture, one would think that it would have been recorded if it happened in the 50's.

Maybe nobody thought it was important enough to talk about in any first century correspondence.


When the Jewish Followers of Christ "saw" this Man of Sin takeover the temple in 66AD which began the revolt, and saw him commit the Abomination that brought Desolation, they knew the desolation of the city was at hand (Just as Jesus said it would be) so they fled to the mountains, as instructed by Christ, and escaped the destruction... the Nazerene sect - Jesus' JEWISH Followers, is the ONLY surviving Sect of Judiasm, as all other Jews were slaughtered when God Violently excommunicated them out of covenant with Him, as God Promised He would for their disobedience.(Deut 28) The Nazerenes were the remnant saved from destruction, again, as prophesied.

So then Jesus destroyed him with the brightness of His Coming, when He returned, and Gathered His people at the resurrection?

Man, I sure hope I haven't missed the resurrection.

That must have been confusing for all those Roman Soldiers when Jesus returned in the middle of the them destroying the city and sanctuary.

What a mess.

Ok. Well that clears up a lot of questions and bible prophecy.

Thanks. JLB
 
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21 when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' flee, for then there will be Great Tribulation...

This scripture does not say it is place called or named the holy place ..... You may imply it say that but it does not say it .....

Ok as usual i will try again in about 6 months..:) one of these years we might change the others mind :)
 
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21 when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' flee, for then there will be Great Tribulation...

This scripture does not say it is place called or named the holy place ..... You may imply it say that but it does not say it .....

Ok as usual i will try again in about 6 months..:) one of these years we might change the others mind :)

Well the good news for your side is: Right now at this moment there is no Temple and therefore no Holy Place.




When they build the New Temple it will have:

Outer Court.

Holy Place.

Holy of Holies.

That is how the Temple of God is to be Built.
 
Outer Court


I've read that there isn't room for the outer court, the Dome of the Rock will have to go first. Do you know?

Some say The DOR will have to be removed, some say The Temple can be built without interfering with the DOR.

In my Opinion it will be the latter, since The false messiah - has been expected for generations by all of the major religions. Christians know him as the Christ, and expect his imminent return. Jews await him as the Messiah; Hindus look for the coming of Krishna; Buddhists expect him as Maitreya Buddha; and Muslims anticipate the Imam Mahdi or Messiah.
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JLB
 
Did you know Ezekiel's temple is outside the city? So if anyone believes the next Jewish temple is the one described in Ezekiel, then it won't be built on the Temple Mount.:twocents
 
Did you know Ezekiel's temple is outside the city? So if anyone believes the next Jewish temple is the one described in Ezekiel, then it won't be built on the Temple Mount.:twocents

No I did not realize that! I will be reading it again today. Why didn't I see that?
Thanks, that may clear some things up for me.
 
Deb what makes a place holy?

The presence of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of our God.

Then why would that spirit abide in a 21st century stone building, built and operated by Talmudic cultists who openly reject Christ, and who have no existing covenant with God? Any Future "Jewish" temple will be no more "Holy" than the current Islamic Dome of the Rock is. They would be equal in their un-holyness.
 
I dont see how anyone could think a building built with the idea in mind to reestablish blood sacrifices, as if the Cross never happened, would be holy.



The book of Hebrews is well worth the time.... just a short passage below....

Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
 
Chapter and verse?

2 Thess 2:6-7
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

Paul testifies above that the Man of Sin was at that time being restrained from his takeover of the temple.


Can you show from scripture where the book of Revelation was written in 68 AD?

This should be an entire new thread topic imo.

I will submit that the dating of the Book is impossible to conclusively prove, one way or the other.
I do believe that the internal evidence most strongly supports the early date. The majority of scholars who have weighed in over the centuries also support the early date.

Perhaps I'll start a thread about it... would be my first thread start.... been waiting for the spirit to move me.... maybe he is working through you JLB :)

Can you show from other New Testament writings were the man of sin was destroyed by the brightness of the Coming of the Lord.

Can you show from any NT writings that the 2nd temple was destroyed? You believe it was, but there is no scripture recording it as having happened.

Surely with such a fulfillment of scripture, one would think that it would have been recorded if it happened in the 50's.

I Never said it happened in the 50's

That must have been confusing for all those Roman Soldiers when Jesus returned in the middle of the them destroying the city and sanctuary.

I have gone down this road with you before my friend, but I'll happily do it again.

The cloud-coming of Revelation 1:7 that "every eye would see" is shown in Revelation 14:14-20 to be an event that occurs in the heavenly realms. As the passage reveals, Christ's actions and commands in the heavenlies result in various tribulation-period disasters that transpire on earth. Simply put, Revelation 14:14-20 is the cloud-coming that "every eye would see." This is significant, for St. John is not describing the coming of Christ as some visual spectacular with cumulus clouds in the skies overhead, but as the coming of Yahweh himself, making Christ equal with the Father.

Just as the Father did in His myriad of "comings" in the OT, Christ Used the armies as His instrument of destruction. This is straightforward stuff. The Roman Soldiers sacking of Jerusalem WAS the "Brightness of His coming" that destroyed His enemies.

Ok. Well that clears up a lot of questions and bible prophecy.

Thanks. JLB

Always happy to help a brother out :)
 
Deb what makes a place holy?

The presence of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of our God.

Then why would that spirit abide in a 21st century stone building, built and operated by Talmudic cultists who openly reject Christ, and who have no existing covenant with God? Any Future "Jewish" temple will be no more "Holy" than the current Islamic Dome of the Rock is. They would be equal in their un-holyness.

The Jews want a temple, because they reject Jesus as Messiah.

Their goal is to build the Temple so he (their messiah) will come.

Because they construct this temple and label the rooms; outer court, holy place and holy of holies, doesn't mean the holy place is "holy".


JLB
 
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

What is restraining will continue to restrain, so that he may be revealed IN HIS OWN time.

The time is at the end of the age.

The time is when the third temple is built.

The time is the "middle of the week", that's when he will be revealed.

The time he will be revealed is when he goes to the temple and proclaims himself as God.

Jesus will personally destroy him by the brightness of His Coming, which every eye will see.


JLB
 
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