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If anyone else would like to seriously look at post #3 and post #5 and explain how they're NOT within a future context, then please do...

Thus far one answer has been because of a belief that The Lord Jesus Christ came in 70AD.

Anyone else believe that one ? :)
 
Anyone else want to play The Lord came in 70AD game...

Or would it be better to stick to the simple truth in the scriptures here...

How about post #3 and #5...

Israel in the regeneration... concerning the world to come... In that Day, the Day of The Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ... At the revelation of Jesus Christ... Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things...
 
H e W i l l S h o w Y o u T h i n g s T o C o m e . . .

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I often wonder why there are a seemingly growing number of professing believers today who cannot receive anything within the Holy Scriptures as pertaining to the "future"..

Is there something wrong with the Holy Spirit showing us things to come..

It seems to me that it's mostly those who confine the scriptures to history alone, and therefore reduce them to nothing more than a history lesson.

It truly makes me wonder...

As if the LORD can't tell us what's to come... in that Day, the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ.
 
T h e R u l e r s O f T h e D a r k n e s s O f T h i s W o r l d . . .

Can you think of anyone who might want Christians to believe that there is nothing "future" within the word of God ?

Who might want to deceive us into believing that THAT DAY has already come ?

Can you think of anyone who might want believers to think like THAT..?

I can...
 
There are many professing believers today who confine all end time events to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Everything they speak of is based upon this..

The destruction of Jerusalem...

Who might want us to believe that...

That there is no future for Israel... ?

The irony of it really... is that all end time events are actually about the DELIVERANCE of the NATION of ISRAEL... in that Day... the Day of the Lord, the Day of Jesus Christ...
 
Eventide said:
This is true now for the body of Christ, and is yet future for the Israel of God.

Ignoring the mystery is serious R.
Click to expand...
Body of Christ =(jew, gentiles, male, female, rich, poor)

No other family exists, no other covenant exists, nor is their a mention in scripture of another new new covenant. All must go to Jesus for life. It may be that Rev 11 testimony convinces some outside the fold to accept Jesus but those individuals that do will only be able to save themselves by their own righteousness. Since I am freewill I believe anyone who listens and learns from the Father can/will go to the Son and Jesus will raise them up on the last day. Thats not ignoring the true gospel message.
 
@synthesis, I believe as you do, but I was stating that paul wouldn't tell his my parents im not of your loins because he is a Christian. he would still call them mom and dad. yes he did call his old "faith" dung. all jews that come to Christ must do that.
 
Randy said:
Eventide said:
This is true now for the body of Christ, and is yet future for the Israel of God.

Ignoring the mystery is serious R.
Click to expand...
Body of Christ =(jew, gentiles, male, female, rich, poor)
Click to expand...

Here's your mistake...

The body of Christ does not EQUAL Jews, Gentiles, male, female, rich, or poor..

It is NEITHER Jew, Gentile, male, female, rich or poor..

We are a completely NEW creation in CHRIST... Old things are passed away.

No other family exists, no other covenant exists, nor is their a mention in scripture of another new new covenant. All must go to Jesus for life. It may be that Rev 11 testimony convinces some outside the fold to accept Jesus but those individuals that do will only be able to save themselves by their own righteousness. Since I am freewill I believe anyone who listens and learns from the Father can/will go to the Son and Jesus will raise them up on the last day. Thats not ignoring the true gospel message.
Click to expand...

Once again, until you understand the mystery.. That Israel is blinded in part until the fullness of the GENTILES be come in... as well as the distinction between the Israel of God and the church of God which is the body of Christ..

You shall remain ignorant and according to the Apostle to the Gentiles... wise in your own conceits.
 
The body of Christ which is His church, comes together on the first day of the week to remember The Lord in His death til He comes...

This is the Lord's Supper amongst believing Christians today... Remembering Him in His death til He comes...

I S R A E L on the other hand doesn't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is their Saviour and King... That nation is still blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in...

But in the end... The Lord is going to lead that nation to repentance and all Israel shall be saved...

When the Deliverer shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from Jacob...

The night is far spent... The Day is at hand...
 
Eventide said:
Sinthesis said:
gr8grace said:
Absolutely not Reba. In the Mill. there will still be people having babies and living physical lives. They will still have the choice to make.

Christ will rule on the earth in the Mill. and some will still not choose Christ, Even with perfect environment and a perfect Judge. And perfect witnesses(you and I)

Its hard to fathom, with all of this that Satan will still have a Army of people with Him at the end of the 1000 years.
Click to expand...

How is this interpretation of the millennium any different than what we see around us today?
Click to expand...

Perhaps because most Christians can see the simple fact that Satan is not bound and is the god of this present evil world, along with the rulers of this dark world...

Although if you'd like to believe that Satan is bound and that the nations are not deceived, then by all means.. Interpret it that way.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup
 
Edward said:
mark said:
I think, Edward, that Jesus provides the answer with the parable that followed, the parable of the workers in the vineyard. He was saying that being first or last here and now is unimportant in salvation and the coming Kingdom. What we do in works, or what we have in riches, does not determine our future in Christ, just as it didn't matter to the landowner who worked first or last, many who are first will be last.
Click to expand...

That's sort of what I thought it to mean. At the bema seat. The first (best Christian ever with the most rewards coming) will be last at the seat, because his portion of the proceedings will in all likelihood take the longest, while the last Christian (the one with least works so to speak, will be first. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

Yeh, in a way it does. The wonderful thing about bible study is that everyone comes away from it with slightly different insights. We all love having those "Oh I didn't think of that" times.

To me Christ's "many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first" message, followed immediately by the parable of the workers in the vineyard, tells me that works isn't what's important, and neither is who came to Christ first or last. God is sovereign in salvation, and what we do - other than accepting our Savior - doesn't effect things the way we think they might. For instance, I wouldn't dare presume who between the criminal on the cross who Christ saved and Paul who Christ saved on the road to Damascus, would be considered first and who last. The criminal died very quickly after that, while Paul labored for Christ in the vineyard for years as a loyal servant, so it's easy for us to think Paul is more worthy in God's eyes, but is he really? The landowner does not reward by the standards of the laborers, and God does not judge by human standards.
 
Edward said:
mark said:
To me Christ's "many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first" message, followed immediately by the parable of the workers in the vineyard, tells me that works isn't what's important, and neither is who came to Christ first or last.
Click to expand...

I'm counting on that one, because, as I see my life, my works are few. I wish I could do more.
Click to expand...

I think we all do, Edward. There are times when I'm kneeling at the altar that I literally tremble at the awesomeness of it all. How can I ever be worthy of such love that my Lord would die for me? Nothing I can do will ever make me feel worthy of that sacrifice
 
Edward said:
mark said:
To me Christ's "many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first" message, followed immediately by the parable of the workers in the vineyard, tells me that works isn't what's important, and neither is who came to Christ first or last.
Click to expand...

I'm counting on that one, because, as I see my life, my works are few. I wish I could do more.
Click to expand...

What do you consider "works" Edward? A wife respecting Her husband even if He doesn't deserve it is a Divine good work. Staying silent when we want to rant is a divine good work. Thinking and being motivated by The mind of Christ and Bible doctrine is a divine good work. Studying the bible is a divine Good work. praying is a divine Good work. Talking on this board about your Lord and Savior is a divine Good work. Loving Christ is a divine Good work. Being motivated in your everyday decisions by the Lords word is a divine good work.

Have you considered these as "Good works?" From what I have read of your posts you have "Divine works" on your account.

The Church and religion tells us that its mission trips, feeding the poor, witnessing on the street corner,serving coffee at church, putting chairs away, sweeping the floor for the church. Which are all "Good" but if our motivation is wrong it is just "human Good" and not "Divine Good"
 
Eventide said:
Sinthesis said:
Eventide said:
One thing is certain...

In the regeneration, when the Son of man sits in the throne of His glory, His Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This is clearly future so it means that this is post resurrection of the dead.
Click to expand...

Actually it means that the OT is interpreted in light of the NT. Thus the actions and beliefs of the OT covenant people are judged by the standards of the NT covenant people, Christianity. As Christians we do this already.
Click to expand...

And you believe this simply because you believe that The Lord Jesus Christ returned in 70AD...

Right ?

And I must conclude this simply because this verse is contextually tied to The Lord coming and then sitting upon the throne of His glory, in the regeneration.
Click to expand...

Wrong.

Jesus continually corrected the Jewish authorities as to how they should interpret the OT scriptures. We have this recorded for us in the NT which allows us to see the failings of those who were limited to the first covenant. The Lord was doing this even before His crucifixion because He is King. The final verdict won't be given until the GWT judgement which is still future.
 
Eventide said:
Sinthesis said:
gr8grace said:
Absolutely not Reba. In the Mill. there will still be people having babies and living physical lives. They will still have the choice to make.

Christ will rule on the earth in the Mill. and some will still not choose Christ, Even with perfect environment and a perfect Judge. And perfect witnesses(you and I)

Its hard to fathom, with all of this that Satan will still have a Army of people with Him at the end of the 1000 years.
Click to expand...

How is this interpretation of the millennium any different than what we see around us today?
Click to expand...

Perhaps because most Christians can see the simple fact that Satan is not bound and is the god of this present evil world, along with the rulers of this dark world...

Although if you'd like to believe that Satan is bound and that the nations are not deceived, then by all means.. Interpret it that way.
Click to expand...

Satan is not bound at present. Not all nations are deceived. Satan is not the god of the world that Christians live in. The entire Globe isn't dark, and neither are all the authorities which God has ordained. Satan only has the authority which God gives him, and God doesn't give Satan authority over Christians.
 
jasoncran said:
@synthesis, I believe as you do, but I was stating that paul wouldn't tell his my parents im not of your loins because he is a Christian. he would still call them mom and dad. yes he did call his old "faith" dung. all jews that come to Christ must do that.
Click to expand...

I agree, and this is evident in Act 21. Paul knew that membership in the physical circumcision was worthless without the promised Messiah. Paul also knew that with the Messiah, physical circumcision was not needed for salvation, which he proclaimed to Gentiles. His heritage was a physical ornament which he was proud of, but which he also knew was of no salvic value without faith.
 
Eventide said:
The body of Christ which is His church, comes together on the first day of the week to remember The Lord in His death til He comes...

This is the Lord's Supper amongst believing Christians today... Remembering Him in His death til He comes...

I S R A E L on the other hand doesn't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is their Saviour and King... That nation is still blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in...

But in the end... The Lord is going to lead that nation to repentance and all Israel shall be saved...

When the Deliverer shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from Jacob...

The night is far spent... The Day is at hand...
Click to expand...

For some of us, the body of Christ which is His church, comes together on the first day of the week to remember The Lord in His Resurrection until He comes again...
 
Sinthesis said:
Eventide said:
Sinthesis said:
Eventide said:
One thing is certain...

In the regeneration, when the Son of man sits in the throne of His glory, His Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This is clearly future so it means that this is post resurrection of the dead.
Click to expand...

Actually it means that the OT is interpreted in light of the NT. Thus the actions and beliefs of the OT covenant people are judged by the standards of the NT covenant people, Christianity. As Christians we do this already.
Click to expand...

And you believe this simply because you believe that The Lord Jesus Christ returned in 70AD...

Right ?

And I must conclude this simply because this verse is contextually tied to The Lord coming and then sitting upon the throne of His glory, in the regeneration.
Click to expand...

Wrong.

Jesus continually corrected the Jewish authorities as to how they should interpret the OT scriptures. We have this recorded for us in the NT which allows us to see the failings of those who were limited to the first covenant. The Lord was doing this even before His crucifixion because He is King. The final verdict won't be given until the GWT judgement which is still future.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be able to admit I believed such a thing either sinthesis...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sinthesis said:
Eventide said:
The body of Christ which is His church, comes together on the first day of the week to remember The Lord in His death til He comes...

This is the Lord's Supper amongst believing Christians today... Remembering Him in His death til He comes...

I S R A E L on the other hand doesn't believe that Jesus of Nazareth is their Saviour and King... That nation is still blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in...

But in the end... The Lord is going to lead that nation to repentance and all Israel shall be saved...

When the Deliverer shall come from Sion and turn ungodliness from Jacob...

The night is far spent... The Day is at hand...
Click to expand...

For some of us, the body of Christ which is His church, comes together on the first day of the week to remember The Lord in His Resurrection until He comes again...
Click to expand...

It doesn't surprise me... Nothing else you say is scriptural, why would this be.
 
really eventide. my church and leadership teaches as you do on isreal. and they teach that jesus ROSE on the third day and when we do communion we remember that he died and ROSE for us.both must happen for its no point if he remained dead. that is what synthesis means.
 
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