2 evidences that water baptism doesn't save anyone

[Ernest T. Bass]

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Acts 10:44-46

These Gentiles believed the Gospel as Peter was speaking these words, in which they were born again, then the Holy Spirit was poured out upon them and they were baptized with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

At this point they are born again, in which they are baptized into Christ by the Spirit as well as baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ.

Now after these two baptism’s Peter commands them to be baptized in water.

Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:47-48


JLB

The Holy Spirit falling upon Cornelius had nothing to do with his personal salvation. In the context God provided a vision to Peter to show him the Gentiles were 'clean'. Then the Lord had the Spirit ti fall upon the Gentiles. The purpose of God doing these 2 things was to prove to the Jews (who tho't salvation was just for them) that salvation was also for the Gentiles. Peter in Acts 11 tells the Jews in Jerusalem about these things God did and the result of God doing these 2 things was "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." Acts 11:18. So God having the Spirit fall upon Cornelius accomplished God's purpose in making the Jews understand salvation was to go to the Gentiles also.

Two verses:
Acts 11:17 "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?"

Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?"

Not taking the gospel to the Gentiles and forbidding water baptism from the Gentiles would be withstanding God's will in the salvation of the gospel going the Gentiles by means of water baptism.

Cornelius would be saved by 'words' Acts 11:14 in what he ought to do (Acts 10:6) in being commanded to be water baptized in the name of the Lord.


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In Act 11 Peter returns to Jerusalem and told them about the events that took place with the Gentiles "But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it BY ORDER unto them...." Acts 11:4. Peter expounded those events "by order". Peter says "Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. And as I BEGAN TO SPEAK the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning."

The order of events was the Spirit fell upon the Gentiles BEFORE Peter spoke those saving words. Again the Spirit falling upon Cornelius had nothing to do with his personal salvation but God's way of showing the Jews salvation was to go to the Gentiles.

Acts 15:11 Jew and Gentile are saved in like manner that being water baptism in the name of the Lord for remission of sins (Acts 2:38) Acts 10:47-48)

 

[JLB]

The Holy Spirit falling upon Cornelius had nothing to do with his personal salvation

The Holy Spirt falling on Cornelius was because he was born again by hearing the Gospel from Peter and responding in repentance.


Then he was baptized with the Holy Spirit.

After that he was baptized in water, as a public confession of Christ.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Not taking the gospel to the Gentiles and forbidding water baptism from the Gentiles would be withstanding God's will in the salvation of the gospel going the Gentiles by means of water baptism.

We are not saved by being water baptized.

We are baptized because we have believed the Gospel message and are saved.

We do not get baptized to become saved, we are baptized in water because we are saved.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The order of events was the Spirit fell upon the Gentiles BEFORE Peter spoke those saving words. Again the Spirit falling upon Cornelius had nothing to do with his personal salvation but God's way of showing the Jews salvation was to go to the Gentiles.

We are born again by believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.


After we are saved we are then baptized with water and baptized with the Holy Spirit.


We are in Christ when the Spirit baptizes us into Christ, and we are made to drink of the same Spirit.


This is the work of the Spirit, in which the Spirit is the one doing the baptizing.


Man baptizes in water.

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.



JLB

 

[Walpole]

This incident included Paul.


And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
Acts 19:1-6

1. These disciples had been baptized in water by John.
2. When they heard about believing in Jesus they were baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit.
3. Then Paul laid hands on them and they were baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Do you disagree with Paul’s actions?


Maybe Paul should have told these disciples of John that there is only one baptism.

JLB

Let's try this...

Before Jesus ascended, He gave the Apostles the specific form for administering baptism, "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." (cf. Mt. 28:19)

---> Is there anywhere in Scripture where another form is given for properly administering one of these other baptisms you think there are?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

We are born again by believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.

Believing alone does not save. NT belief includes repentance, confession and baptism.

John 3:16 Jesus made belief a necessity to not perishing (saved)
Luke 13:3 Jesus made repentance equally necessary to not perishing (saved)
Matt 10:32-33 Jesus made confession equally necessary to being saved
Mark 16:16 Jesus made water baptism equally necessary to being saved.

All the belief only in the world will never save the person who will not repent much less save the one who will not confess or submit to baptism.

After we are saved we are then baptized with water and baptized with the Holy Spirit.


We are in Christ when the Spirit baptizes us into Christ, and we are made to drink of the same Spirit.


This is the work of the Spirit, in which the Spirit is the one doing the baptizing.

There is not a single conversion in Acts where one was saved before being water baptized. The purpose of water baptism is FOR remission of sin, not BECAUSE one sins have already been remitted.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit does not exist today. In other posts of mine, it was shown that Joel prophesied God's Spirit would be poured out upon "all flesh" with all flesh meaning Jew and Gentile and not every single person. And in Acts 2 the Lord baptized Jews (Apostles) and Acts 10 He baptized Gentiles thereby fulfilling, ending, ceasing this baptism. No one can prove from the Bible this baptism exists today nor can those who 'claim' they have been baptized with the Holy Spirit provide any objective proof at all they have been. In the two occasions in the NT the Lord baptized men with the Holy Spirit Acts 2 - (Apostles/Jews) and Acts 10 Cornelius (Gentiles) it was followed by miracles. Miracles ceased some 2000 years ago. No one today has been given the power to perform miracles for no one today has been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Man baptizes in water.

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.



JLB

To correctly understand context, we need to know who is speaking, who is being spoken to and what is being said.

The context of Acts 1:1-5 is Jesus speaking to His Apostles promising them the Holy Spirit. To have this promise made to the Apostles apply to anyone today is taking it out of context.

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God has commanded water baptism therefore men who are not water baptized they will be held accountable for what was THEIR failure to do.

Being baptized with the Holy Spirit was never commanded to anyone. If being baptized with the Holy Spirit is necessary to being saved AND being baptized with the Holy Spirit is out of man's control, then those that are lost having not been baptized with the HS is the fault of the Lord for failing to baptize them with the HS.

This is not any different than Calvinists on other forums telling me faith is a gift of God meaning I can only have faith if God 'gives' it to me. Therefore if I am faithless then that is totally, 100% God's fault for not 'giving' me faith. How can God justly, rightly condemn me for being faithless when on one hand He requires faith but on the other hand He refuses to give me faith that HE has required for salvation?

 

[Prycejosh1987]

I think of it this way, putting a ring on someones finger doesn't require dedication. It doesn't mean the married people with the rings on their fingers will be faithful to each other. People could be like my oldest auntie, they could not put rings on their partners fingers but remain totally loyal. Baptism is the same, the analogy is the same.