faithtransforms
Member
I know the timing of the rapture has been debated on this forum ad nauseum. But I'd really like to post these verses and ask how we can possibly debate them. I'd love to hear verses on all sides of this issue as I would love to believe in a pre-trib rapture but have not found enough evidence in the scripture to believe it is so. Of course I will not tell you what to post and what not to post, but I'm not looking for type & shadow from the OT or any "logic" regarding why anyone thinks a pre-trib rapture makes sense. I'd really just like to see scriptures supporting your positions. So anyway the scripture I'd like to share is this:
2 Thessalonians 1:4-10
4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure,
5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Unless I am seeing this wrong, God will recompense REST to when Jesus comes back with His angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, at which time He will also be glorified in His saints. Clearly this is speaking of his second coming. If there were a pre-trib rapture, then why would He give us REST at His second coming considering we wouldn't even be here?
Also, the following scripture:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4:
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
In verses 1 and 2, Paul is clearly equating the rapture with the second coming as he goes on to say that the gathering up of the saints will not occur until the man of sin is revealed etc., which occurs sometime during the tribulation.
These were the first scriptures that convinced me that the rapture is either mid or post trib. What say you to these verses? Am I seeing them wrong? Who can logically explain them away?
2 Thessalonians 1:4-10
4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure,
5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer;
6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
Unless I am seeing this wrong, God will recompense REST to when Jesus comes back with His angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, at which time He will also be glorified in His saints. Clearly this is speaking of his second coming. If there were a pre-trib rapture, then why would He give us REST at His second coming considering we wouldn't even be here?
Also, the following scripture:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4:
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
In verses 1 and 2, Paul is clearly equating the rapture with the second coming as he goes on to say that the gathering up of the saints will not occur until the man of sin is revealed etc., which occurs sometime during the tribulation.
These were the first scriptures that convinced me that the rapture is either mid or post trib. What say you to these verses? Am I seeing them wrong? Who can logically explain them away?