3 Important truths for spiritual clarity.

[john darling]

Hi all,
I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on this video. It's about 18 minutes long. I found it pretty good in that it's precise and clear in communicating what it means to really believe Jesus is Lord, not just in a theological way but in day-to-day practical life.

Let me know what you think.

 

[Truthfrees]

Hi all,
I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on this video. It's about 18 minutes long. I found it pretty good in that it's precise and clear in communicating what it means to really believe Jesus is Lord, not just in a theological way but in day-to-day practical life.

Let me know what you think.

wow - quite the video

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi all,
I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on this video. It's about 18 minutes long. I found it pretty good in that it's precise and clear in communicating what it means to really believe Jesus is Lord, not just in a theological way but in day-to-day practical life.

Let me know what you think.

I stopped watching after 6 minutes or so.

First of all, I don't like to learn anything from YouTube...I only watch it to find out more about something I already know.

Second, I think most will not watch a video. A good method is to watch one and then say what the three methods are in a list and that will get more discussion going.

I read what Truthfrees said, and, quite frankly, I trust HIM more than the guy on YouTube because at least I know what he believes about many topics.

We must know God IN SPIRIT.
We have to come to KNOW God in some way...know Him like a friend but worship Him like God.

Whatever that may mean....

 

[GodsGrace]

wow - quite the video

Wow.
That's pretty extreme...
and definitely NOT what Jesus came to teach us.
(going by what you posted since I didn't watch the video)

 

[for_his_glory]

There are good teaching videos and then there are bad ones with man's doctrine that leads another away from truth. Why do we allow man to teach us when we already have that which is already written and the Holy Spirit that teaches us all truths. Others can only teach truth when they have come to the knowledge of truth by the Holy Spirit teaching them what God wants revealed to us.

 

[john darling]

wow - quite the video

the first 7 minutes was excellent

Hi TF. Thanks for watching the video and offering some feedback.

so what is wrong with point #3?

Jesus was not married and had no children - so if we take point #3 literally none of us should marry - that is not a teaching of Jesus

The 3 points listed are not laws. They are useful guidelines for interpreting the teachings of Jesus. For example, if a preacher tells you that what Jesus really wants is for us to be filthy rich, buy luxury cars and homes, buy designer labels, buy the best food etc, then when comparing this to the example of Jesus you can see the two are not consistent.

Some discernment is necessary when applying the concepts.

Jesus worked as a carpenter until He was 30 and then He went into full time ministry for 3.5 years until His crucifixion and resurrection - people supported Him and His ministry - Luke 8:3

It is an assumption that Jesus worked for money until he was 30. Yes, he was born into a family in which the main source of income was carpentry, but there is nothing to indicate that Jesus himself charged anyone for his labor. However, there is ample evidence that he did not charge for whatever labor he may have supplied in helping the family business. In Luke 2:49 Joseph and Mary search frantically for Jesus and find him preaching at the temple. When they find him he tells them he's doing his father's buisness. Even from childhood, Jesus understood what his purpose was, and it had nothing to do with promoting the worldly system of demanding payment for his labor.

However, even IF Jesus worked for pay up until 30, his example shows that we are meant to leave the worldly system of wages for something better.

so if all christians stop working who will support them in ministry?

There is an important distinction here. Nowhere does either Jesus, or the video listed above say that we should stop working. It is part of the problem that we automatically associate work with money and are unable to separate the two. The implication is that if our labor is nor performed for money then it isn't really work.

The issue is always about why we work. Do we work for the benefit of our brothers and sisters or do we work because we're afraid of starving to death?

Sharing is what the Kingdom of Heaven is based on, but working for money is not the same as sharing. This is why Jesus said we cannot work for two masters. He said the choice will be between God or money and then goes on to explain how we are meant to live by faith. Matthew 6:24-34

f we are all carpenters until we are 30 and then stop working and go into full time ministry for 3.5 years until we are crucified does that sound reasonable?

Only God knows how much time we have on the earth, but yes we are called on to take up our cross. Maybe there is a case where that will become literal, as it was for Jesus and Peter, but again, this is an area of discernment. The teaching does not need to be literal for one to get the essence of the lesson; we are called on to lay down our life for God and there's a good chance it will be difficult to do so, whether it's through decades of patient service to others or a suddenly physical confrontation.

If someone is teaching that we need never experience any unpleasantness or consider behavior which will result in persecution/death, then that would be inconsistent with Jesus' example.

he is using scripture to tell us that all christians need to stop working - stop getting married - sell everything you own - and go into full time ministry

Nah. At the risk of offending you (I hope you will consider that my comments are not personal) I would suggest that you are reacting to the extremity of what the video suggests. Following Jesus means huge changes in lifestyle and behavior. Obedience to him tends to rip us right out of our comfort zone and throw us into the deep end of spiritual growth. Like the rich young ruler who walked away sad, the teachings of Jesus force us to confront some hard truths about ourselves. The rich young ruler discovered that he wasn't really as committed to following God as he supposed himself to be. He was ready to follow any number of religious rules so long as it did not require him to let go of his possessions. This happens to many would-be followers of Jesus today especially in areas of money, possessions, family/friends, and self image; all of which are areas which the teachings of Jesus tell us to confront.

 

[john darling]

I read what @Truthfrees said, and, quite frankly, I trust HIM more than the guy on YouTube because at least I know what he believes about many topics.

The issue is not one of trusting people, but rather of examination of the teachings of Jesus. There are many times when we should not even trust ourselves, especially since there is good evidence to suggest that the heart really is deceitful above all things.

This is why it is so important to use the teachings of Jesus as the standard for how we measure anything. We can trust Jesus. If Jesus tells us to do something which causes discomfort to us, the temptation is to then explain it away through some convenient doctrine.

One of the clearest examples of this is the working for love vs working for money issue. There's heaps of examples all throughout the gospels of Jesus and his disciples rejecting materialism, forsaking personal ownership, working for love, living in community and sharing all things in common. But most Christians explain this away by saying it was only for the Jews, or it was only for the early Christians, or that Jesus only meant to forsake materialism in the heart, or that everyone has a different calling etc.

Very few people consider the teachings of Jesus in terms of radical, life changing standards which are deliberately designed to be opposite to the standards of this world. Everything about the teachings of Jesus pushes us in a direction which causes us to confront our problems and let go of everything we cling to. Such self examination and discipline can be extremely uncomfortable, and yet if we cheat on the standards then we do not receive the benefits.

 

[JohnDB]

The issue is not one of trusting people, but rather of examination of the teachings of Jesus. There are many times when we should not even trust ourselves, especially since there is good evidence to suggest that the heart really is deceitful above all things.

This is why it is so important to use the teachings of Jesus as the standard for how we measure anything. We can trust Jesus. If Jesus tells us to do something which causes discomfort to us, the temptation is to then explain it away through some convenient doctrine.

One of the clearest examples of this is the working for love vs working for money issue. There's heaps of examples all throughout the gospels of Jesus and his disciples rejecting materialism, forsaking personal ownership, working for love, living in community and sharing all things in common. But most Christians explain this away by saying it was only for the Jews, or it was only for the early Christians, or that Jesus only meant to forsake materialism in the heart, or that everyone has a different calling etc.

Very few people consider the teachings of Jesus in terms of radical, life changing standards which are deliberately designed to be opposite to the standards of this world. Everything about the teachings of Jesus pushes us in a direction which causes us to confront our problems and let go of everything we cling to. Such self examination and discipline can be extremely uncomfortable, and yet if we cheat on the standards then we do not receive the benefits.

And exactly how do you pay for where you live?
How do you buy groceries?
How did you come by the means to access the internet?

 

[john darling]

Why do we allow man to teach us when we already have that which is already written and the Holy Spirit that teaches us all truths.

To be fair, you are also trying to teach something right now. I understand you see this attempt at teaching as legitimate because what you're teaching is to look at what the Holy Spirit guides us to do. That's fair enough and is exactly what the video above promotes.

In John 6:63 Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit is synonymous with his teachings. This is even more clear when, in John 14:26 he says the Holy Spirit will remind us of his teachings. In Matthew 7:26 Jesus gives a stern warning about people who hear his teachings, but then do not obey them. He says these people are foolish. In the same chapter, in verses 22-23 he talks about people who call him Lord, but do not obey him. These people believe they are saved, but they ignore his teachings.

If humans teach us to disregard or explain-away Jesus' teachings, then we should not trust those people. If they encourage us to obey Jesus' teachings, then we should trust those people. Jesus himself says, "If they accept you then it's like they are accepting me". Matthew 10:40. This is only relevant in the context of promoting the teachings of Jesus. If we encourage people to obey Jesus, and those people accept our preaching, then it is as though they have accepted it from Jesus himself. The topic makes all the difference. If people promote obedience to Jesus it would be foolish to ignore them on the basis that they are just human beings.

 

[john darling]

And exactly how do you pay for where you live?
How do you buy groceries?
How did you come by the means to access the internet?

Hi JDB. Did you watch the video? Do you have any thoughts on it?

 

[Nathan12]

Second, I think most will not watch a video.

That includes myself. Those who post videos should include a summary of what is being presented.

 

[john darling]

That includes myself. Those who post videos should include a summary of what is being presented.

Hi Nathan. It's not mandatory viewing so there's no problem if you decide you'd rather not. Here's the summary I posted in the OP: It's precise and clear in communicating what it means to really believe Jesus is Lord, not just in a theological way but in day-to-day practical life.

Let me know if you change your mind.

 

[GodsGrace]

The issue is not one of trusting people, but rather of examination of the teachings of Jesus. There are many times when we should not even trust ourselves, especially since there is good evidence to suggest that the heart really is deceitful above all things.

This is why it is so important to use the teachings of Jesus as the standard for how we measure anything. We can trust Jesus. If Jesus tells us to do something which causes discomfort to us, the temptation is to then explain it away through some convenient doctrine.

One of the clearest examples of this is the working for love vs working for money issue. There's heaps of examples all throughout the gospels of Jesus and his disciples rejecting materialism, forsaking personal ownership, working for love, living in community and sharing all things in common. But most Christians explain this away by saying it was only for the Jews, or it was only for the early Christians, or that Jesus only meant to forsake materialism in the heart, or that everyone has a different calling etc.

Very few people consider the teachings of Jesus in terms of radical, life changing standards which are deliberately designed to be opposite to the standards of this world. Everything about the teachings of Jesus pushes us in a direction which causes us to confront our problems and let go of everything we cling to. Such self examination and discipline can be extremely uncomfortable, and yet if we cheat on the standards then we do not receive the benefits.

Hi JD

You bring up some very good points.
I also believe that we have to go to the words of Jesus when we're not sure about something.
I also agree we should not even trust our own conscience...unless we've trained it to think as God would want us to think, and as Jesus taught. A normal conscience can be convinced, as you've stated, that a good might be bad and that a bad might be good.

Many times Jesus tells us to do things, or not to do things, which cause discomfort...I believe this is sin...if it's moral in nature. If not, then we can make decisions based on a christian idea or idealism...we read about God's will for our lives, but it's not like He's going to send us a telegram each time we wonder about something. We need to know HIS "WAYS", and move accordingly.

Actually, communes were common in the 60's and they were tried. But they failed -- they failed because of human nature.
Man has a tough time living with man. Does this mean Jesus' ideas failed? Maybe it would just take a lot of persons dying to THEIR WILL and accepting the will of God to be able to make a commune type community function,,but how much are we willing to give up? It brings to mind the Amish. Seems like the current generation wants to leave the nest (not all of them).

As to the video...maybe you should just list the 3 truths?
List what YOU think is important...
How YOU think life could work if some certain rules were followed....

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Nathan. It's not mandatory viewing so there's no problem if you decide you'd rather not. Here's the summary I posted in the OP: It's precise and clear in communicating what it means to really believe Jesus is Lord, not just in a theological way but in day-to-day practical life.

Let me know if you change your mind.

The above is for Nathan12
just want to say that what you posted in the O.P. is not enough.
Please try again since I do believe this is an important topic....

 

[john darling]

just want to say that what you posted in the O.P. is not enough.
Please try again since I do believe this is an important topic....

Hi Wondering. Fair enough. Here's the explanation from the youtube page itself.

"Three Important Truths for Spiritual Clarity" shows just how easy it is to clear up the confusion that so many people have about who to believe and who not to believe. Do people really want to know God's will for their life and develop greater discernment of spirits? Do you want to be able to know who is following God and who is not? This powerful video reveals that the truth is simple but we need to look in the right places to find it. How serious are you about finding the way, the truth and the life? Are you willing to leave it all behind to follow Him?

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Wondering. Fair enough. Here's the explanation from the youtube page itself.

"Three Important Truths for Spiritual Clarity" shows just how easy it is to clear up the confusion that so many people have about who to believe and who not to believe. Do people really want to know God's will for their life and develop greater discernment of spirits? Do you want to be able to know who is following God and who is not? This powerful video reveals that the truth is simple but we need to look in the right places to find it. How serious are you about finding the way, the truth and the life? Are you willing to leave it all behind to follow Him?

I see by your signature line that you're a very devoted individual.
You'd be willing to get your head shot off for witnessing to Christ...I don't know that all of us would be that brave. In fact, we had a small discussion about this in a theology study I go to about 2 months ago.

Who we have to believe is what God tells us. I know you're not going to like this, but He does tell each one of us something different.

If God tells you to sell everything and go into the mission field, then this is what you should do. He won't tell everyone to do this.

We each get a measure of faith to be able to do what God wants us to do.
Romans 12:3

And what does He want us to do? To each He gives a different gift:
Romans 12:6-8

As to God's will... How do YOU know what God's will is for your life?

What does that mean, anyway?

Then you ask if I'm willing to leave all behind to follow Him.
Leave WHAT behind, actually?
Why can't I live my current life and follow Him?
What does it mean to YOU to follow Him?

 

[JohnDB]

Hi JDB. Did you watch the video? Do you have any thoughts on it?

Well,
You are absolutely disrespectful of the teachings.
Paul said, "If a man doesn't work he shouldn't eat"
Do not muzzle the ox while treading the grain.
The Workman deserves his wages.

So someone somewhere had to work for money that you currently spend without regard.

How can you afford gifts to God that are acceptable without earning a living ?

A man who doesn't support his family is worse than an unbeliever. And I support my physical and spiritual family with something other than "holy thoughts".

 

[john darling]

Hi JDB. The rapid fire issues you've presented seem a little aggressive. How about we slow it down a bit and you can choose one of those issues for me to deal with. Does that sound fair?

 

[for_his_glory]

To be fair, you are also trying to teach something right now. I understand you see this attempt at teaching as legitimate because what you're teaching is to look at what the Holy Spirit guides us to do. That's fair enough and is exactly what the video above promotes.

In John 6:63 Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit is synonymous with his teachings. This is even more clear when, in John 14:26 he says the Holy Spirit will remind us of his teachings. In Matthew 7:26 Jesus gives a stern warning about people who hear his teachings, but then do not obey them. He says these people are foolish. In the same chapter, in verses 22-23 he talks about people who call him Lord, but do not obey him. These people believe they are saved, but they ignore his teachings.

If humans teach us to disregard or explain-away Jesus' teachings, then we should not trust those people. If they encourage us to obey Jesus' teachings, then we should trust those people. Jesus himself says, "If they accept you then it's like they are accepting me". Matthew 10:40. This is only relevant in the context of promoting the teachings of Jesus. If we encourage people to obey Jesus, and those people accept our preaching, then it is as though they have accepted it from Jesus himself. The topic makes all the difference. If people promote obedience to Jesus it would be foolish to ignore them on the basis that they are just human beings.

The words Jesus speaks are not even His own, but that of what God gave Him to speak. This is why Jesus said the words that He speaks are spirit and life as God being a spirit gives us life. John 6:63; John 12:44-50.

Now we have been given the Holy Spirit being the same Spirit of God that teaches us all truths, not being synonymous which means nearly the same, but teaches us exactly as God gave Jesus what to speak.

In Matthew 7:26 I wouldn't say it was a stern warning from Jesus, but that of Jesus explaining how foolish it would be to not hear and keep His sayings. Same in Galatians 3:1-3.

Those who teach a different doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ are not obedient to God as with their mouth they will say to obey the teachings of Christ, but they themselves seek after the doctrines of devils as they allow themselves to be deceived not knowing as they seek not truth. This is why we have to test the spirits that teach us, 1 John 4:1-6.

2 Corinthians 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Latin root word for religion is bondage, which is different then that of Gods pure religion of James 1:27, but that of following tradition and the doctrine of a mans church, not Gods true Church. The Latin root word is religare as re is a prefix that means return and ligare means to bind. Religion tells you what you can and cannot do and becomes socially acceptable by mans interpretations, traditions and doctrines. Religion is what nailed Christ to the cross because the Bible is not socially acceptable to society, if it were then Christ would have died in vain. God is not about mans religion, nor does he recognize organized religion. God is about a personal relationship with you and His son Jesus Christ.

 

[Nathan12]

It's precise and clear in communicating what it means to really believe Jesus is Lord, not just in a theological way but in day-to-day practical life.

Another poster has pointed out that if Christians would replicate exactly and precisely how Christ lived on earth, they would be unable to do what He commanded.

I would add that the apostles followed through on the teachings on Christ and also provided guidelines for the practical issues. For example, God and Christ wish to see that most Christians are married, have children, and raise families. And Paul encouraged young widows to do exactly that. All the apostles had wives (as Paul tells us). Indeed this is the clear teaching of Genesis 1.

The celibate state is the exception to the rule (and Paul may have been a widower for all we know, so not really a celibate). Celibacy and asceticism are pagan concepts adopted by some churches, but Paul makes it clear that those are not Christian concepts. And self-flagellation is definitely not what Paul meant by "crucifying the flesh". Now these things may not be in the video, but I bring them up in this context.