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A Christian Marriage: wives submitting to a Godly Husband - why not?

Nick

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Yes, this topic comes up a lot here and I hope I'm not going to be dumping more fuel on the fire, but I felt compelled to post this, as I've come accross some great material on the internet recently, and I feel this is an important issue.

There is a massive resistance nowdays against wives submitting to their husbands. Now the issue has been debated many times, discussing how important it is, different interpretations of context etc etc. But the Bible clearly teaches that a wife should submit to a Godly man, just as he submits to Christ.

I think the issue of creating a Godly Marriage is very important, and needs to be well thought out, and Biblically understood. The marriage, and therefore the family is really the centre of peoples' lives as they go about their day, and creates the basis for a child's growing up. Getting this right is important.

My point, is that looking at the following verses (NIV (c) 2010) describing a husband's role in marriage, who wouldn't want to submit to this?

28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[a]
-Ephesians 5:22-28-31

Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
-1 Peter 3:7

But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
-1 Corinthians 11:3

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
-Ephesians 5:25

Why not? Many Christian girls my age I know are fully prepared for the above, and have absolutely no problems with it.

BTW, I found this page very helpful: A CHRISTIAN HUSBAND

The whole article is an excellent read, and I encourage all to read it in its entirity, however I have put a few summary quotes from it below.


When a Christian man selects a Christian woman to become his wife, she becomes the perfect compliment for him. She is exactly what is needed to make the man a complete and whole person. The two become one: "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh" (Eph. 5:31). This was the plan and the intention of God from the very beginning.

What a joyous and fulfilling experience it is when we do things in God's way and according to His eternal plan! A Christian marriage should last until death - one husband, one wife, for life. The Bible says, “The woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives” (Rom. 7:2; cf. Rom. 2:11). Whether the days together are few or many, words cannot really describe the happiness and fulfillment enjoyed by both partners from this God ordained relationship. There is no such thing as "married singles" to be found in the Bible. A Christian husband and wife are one in thought, activity, and purpose.

In 1 Corinthians 11:3 we read: "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." God's chain of authority for the home is as follows: God, Christ, the husband, the wife, and then the children. The husband should be the dominant figure in the family. Of course, it is impossible for the husband to be the dominant one if the wife does not allow him to be, and will not submit to his authority. It is not degrading, in any sense of the word, for a woman to submit to the authority of her husband. Instead of being degrading, it is ennobling and elevates a woman to a higher plane than she has ever enjoyed before! Ephesians 5:23 says: "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and He is the savior of the body."

A Christian husband should be the leader without being a dictator. He is to be the head of his wife as Christ is the head of the church. Jesus is not an uncaring tyrant over the church. He is the Savior, protector, and supporter of His precious bride! This is the way every wise Christian husband properly leads in the home. He leads by love, understanding, and example. The more a husband learns to do this, the better leader he will be. The entire family will gladly and willingly follow his leadership and obey his directives, with very few exceptions.

On the other hand, when a husband continually forces his wife to do his will or follow his whims and fancies; he denies her the privilege of making her own choice. This is not biblical, practical, or even humane.
 
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Nick

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No one?

I would have thought the 'snake pit' would have a say on the matter.
 
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OHHHH how i wish i had time to get into this topic this morning!! what part of "wives submit to your husbands" in Ephesians 5 do people not understand!! i'm REALLY passionate about this topic and will definitely post something tonight after work. The Word says that man is the head of woman, and that the head of man is Christ!! his Word is eternal and does not change just b/c a bunch of feminists have gone around telling women that this somehow degrades them!! are you kidding me?!?!? it's an HONOR to submit to your husband!!! ugh!!! i can't wait to post more about this topic lol!!!
 
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and i'm not just talking about GODLY husbands either!! unless you're husband is asking you to sin against God, you are to obey him, period!! no he's not a dictator and yes you are his partner, you should be discussing things and making decisions together and all that, but the Word says that even an unsaved man can be won over by the conduct of his wife!!! and part of that conduct is submission!!! ohhhh i just can't WAIT to sink my teeth into this lol!!!
 

Sparkey

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What's that old saying? "The proof is in the pudding?"

Although this thread is exactly right and true to the Word there is something that has been missed. Certainly one of our sisters in Christ can speak to the younger women and instruct them about godliness? One who has had the benefit of experience? It is my thought that men of God must first turn their hearts --> not only to God but to their children in truth. When women see the hearts of their children turn (in truth) to their fathers.... Then, and only then, will we fully know the benefit of godliness. Submission to God and to all authority only makes sense when we understand the function --> to raise healthy children.

My point, is that looking at the following verses (NIV (c) 2010) describing a husband's role in marriage, who wouldn't want to submit to this?

~Sparrow
 

PouringRain

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I will comment, simply because you are wanting comments. :)


I believe totally in submission of a wife unto her husband.

I think one problem we have in today's society goes along with what the last part of the passage you quoted says, and that is that often men think that the submission is their right to enforce-- when in reality it is the wife's duty. His job is to love her. Her job is to submit. The Bible doesn't say "Husbands, make your wives submit unto you." :shame Submission is a voluntary act of love, not a forced slave.

But another big problem in today's society is that women do not understand what it means to submit. They view submission as being a slave and as repression. They belittle other women who submit, and attribute it to a weakness of character.

There was a good daily dose by Tzvi Freeman on this topic, and although the message applied to our surrender to God, the concept in marriage is the same. Because, the relationship between God and his people is the model for how the relationship should be for a man and his wife. Here is the message by Tzvi Freeman:

They think self surrender means to say, "I have no mind. I have no heart. I only believe and follow, for I am nothing."

This is not self-surrender - this is denial of the truth. For it is saying there is a place where G-dliness cannot be -namely your mind and your heart.

G-d did not give you a brain that you should abandon it, or a personality that you should ignore it. These are the building materials from which you may forge a sanctuary for Him, to bring Divine Presence into the physical realm.

Don't run from the self with which G-d has entrusted you. Connect your entire being to its Essential Source. Permeate every cell with the light of self-surrender.
 

Caroline H

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What's that old saying? "The proof is in the pudding?"

Although this thread is exactly right and true to the Word there is something that has been missed. Certainly one of our sisters in Christ can speak to the younger women and instruct them about godliness? One who has had the benefit of experience? It is my thought that men of God must first turn their hearts --> not only to God but to their children in truth. When women see the hearts of their children turn (in truth) to their fathers.... Then, and only then, will we fully know the benefit of godliness. Submission to God and to all authority only makes sense when we understand the function --> to raise healthy children.



~Sparrow

While I agree that the Bible instructs older women to instruct younger women on submission and godliness, our society as a whole has gotten so out of whack that many many Christian women bristle at the term "submission" as well as younger women. It cannot be left up to the older women alone to bring up this topic, because if we did that I fear it would almost never be taught. I see no reason why a young man, even though he has never been married, cannot state his observations and encourage women to submit to their husbands, especially when he includes a link to information about men being godly husbands. I think more Christians should be supporting this topic in general, instead of leaving it up to the older women only. :twocents
 

Sparkey

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While I agree that the Bible instructs older women to instruct younger women on submission and godliness, our society as a whole has gotten so out of whack that many many Christian women bristle at the term "submission" as well as younger women. It cannot be left up to the older women alone to bring up this topic, because if we did that I fear it would almost never be taught. I see no reason why a young man, even though he has never been married, cannot state his observations and encourage women to submit to their husbands, especially when he includes a link to information about men being godly husbands. I think more Christians should be supporting this topic in general, instead of leaving it up to the older women only. :twocents
If you meant to correct me for correcting Nick - then I stand corrected. Yielding is to me much like submission. It is important for men to be willing to yield and I will put aside any feeling that I have not been rightly understood and simply apologize.

Sorry,

~Sparrow
 

Caroline H

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If you meant to correct me for correcting Nick - then I stand corrected. Yielding is to me much like submission. It is important for men to be willing to yield and I will put aside any feeling that I have not been rightly understood and simply apologize.

Sorry,

~Sparrow

Correct you? Not at all :confused: I was merely stating that I feel that men have valid things to say on this matter just as much as women do.
 

Sparkey

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You may have misunderstood the intent of my post. (Most likely because I didn't express myself well.) What I had in mind was from the last words of the old testament. The gaping wound that is seen throughout our society comes from the failure of men, not women. God will save us:

[Malachi 4:5-6 KJV] - Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

~Sparrow
 
E

elijah23

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The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors as ourselves. I don’t know why a man would try to lord over his wife.
 

handy

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and i'm not just talking about GODLY husbands either!! unless you're husband is asking you to sin against God, you are to obey him, period!! no he's not a dictator and yes you are his partner, you should be discussing things and making decisions together and all that, but the Word says that even an unsaved man can be won over by the conduct of his wife!!! and part of that conduct is submission!!! ohhhh i just can't WAIT to sink my teeth into this lol!!!

I agree that this is not just talking about Godly husbands. As a Christian woman submits to her husband, she truly can show him the love of Christ.

However, I do think it is very important to point out that nowhere in Scripture is a woman commanded to "obey" her husband. Rather, godly women are to submit to their husbands. There is a difference. Wives are not slaves, not children and submission is far more about a voluntary decision to follow the husband's lead rather than obedience. This is why the texts translate the word as submit rather than obey.


elijah23 said:
The Lord commanded us to love our neighbors as ourselves. I don’t know why a man would try to lord over his wife.
A Christian husband will not "lord" it over his wife. Now, a non-Christian husband might, and if he does, then a Christian woman must still submit, but in Christian marriage the only lord is Jesus.
 
E

elijah23

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A Christian husband will not "lord" it over his wife. Now, a non-Christian husband might, and if he does, then a Christian woman must still submit, but in Christian marriage the only lord is Jesus.

If a woman is married to non-Christian, her only Lord is STILL Jesus, right?
 

handy

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If a woman is married to non-Christian, her only Lord is STILL Jesus, right?

Yes, and it is Jesus who commands women to submit to their husbands. We Christian wives do not submit to our husbands because they tell us to, we submit because the Lord tells us to.
 
E

elijah23

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Yes, and it is Jesus who commands women to submit to their husbands. We Christian wives do not submit to our husbands because they tell us to, we submit because the Lord tells us to.

No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. Matt 6:24 RSV
 

handy

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Ummm, Elijah, by submitting to my husband, I AM serving the Lord.

If you're not getting that, for whatever reason, I think we'll just nod and go our ways here. :salute
 

Caroline H

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No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. Matt 6:24 RSV

Elijah, do you consider children who are obedient to their parents to be serving two masters? I ask this because the concept is the same, in that in the family there is a hierarchy that was established by God, which places the man over the woman and the parents over the children. To usurp that hierarchy is to disobey God, whom we serve with our obedience.
 

Nick

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OHHHH how i wish i had time to get into this topic this morning!! what part of "wives submit to your husbands" in Ephesians 5 do people not understand!! i'm REALLY passionate about this topic and will definitely post something tonight after work. The Word says that man is the head of woman, and that the head of man is Christ!! his Word is eternal and does not change just b/c a bunch of feminists have gone around telling women that this somehow degrades them!! are you kidding me?!?!? it's an HONOR to submit to your husband!!! ugh!!! i can't wait to post more about this topic lol!!!

and i'm not just talking about GODLY husbands either!! unless you're husband is asking you to sin against God, you are to obey him, period!! no he's not a dictator and yes you are his partner, you should be discussing things and making decisions together and all that, but the Word says that even an unsaved man can be won over by the conduct of his wife!!! and part of that conduct is submission!!! ohhhh i just can't WAIT to sink my teeth into this lol!!!
I can't wait, either, faithtransforms. I'm sure you have much wisdom on the matter :nod

What's that old saying? "The proof is in the pudding?"

Although this thread is exactly right and true to the Word there is something that has been missed. Certainly one of our sisters in Christ can speak to the younger women and instruct them about godliness? One who has had the benefit of experience? It is my thought that men of God must first turn their hearts --> not only to God but to their children in truth. When women see the hearts of their children turn (in truth) to their fathers.... Then, and only then, will we fully know the benefit of godliness. Submission to God and to all authority only makes sense when we understand the function --> to raise healthy children.
I do agree with Caroline that while it would be helpful for older women with experiences in this kind of thing to instruct and teach younger women (very important these days) I also feel that it is anybody's right (and privellige) to teach this, as any other scripture is taught. I do see what you're saying, but I also think that that is not hte only wya in which it can or should be taught. Young women (or any woman) these days are so pressured by the world in this area that they need all the help and guidence that they can get.
 
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Nick

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I will comment, simply because you are wanting comments. :)


I believe totally in submission of a wife unto her husband.

I think one problem we have in today's society goes along with what the last part of the passage you quoted says, and that is that often men think that the submission is their right to enforce-- when in reality it is the wife's duty. His job is to love her. Her job is to submit. The Bible doesn't say "Husbands, make your wives submit unto you." :shame Submission is a voluntary act of love, not a forced slave.

But another big problem in today's society is that women do not understand what it means to submit. They view submission as being a slave and as repression. They belittle other women who submit, and attribute it to a weakness of character.

There was a good daily dose by Tzvi Freeman on this topic, and although the message applied to our surrender to God, the concept in marriage is the same. Because, the relationship between God and his people is the model for how the relationship should be for a man and his wife. Here is the message by Tzvi Freeman:

They think self surrender means to say, "I have no mind. I have no heart. I only believe and follow, for I am nothing."

This is not self-surrender - this is denial of the truth. For it is saying there is a place where G-dliness cannot be -namely your mind and your heart.

G-d did not give you a brain that you should abandon it, or a personality that you should ignore it. These are the building materials from which you may forge a sanctuary for Him, to bring Divine Presence into the physical realm.

Don't run from the self with which G-d has entrusted you. Connect your entire being to its Essential Source. Permeate every cell with the light of self-surrender.
I think this is very important, that submission is not as many people belive, husbands suppressing their wives. Not at all! It is the wife submitting to the husband, as unto the Lord.
 

Nick

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No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. Matt 6:24 RSV
We are not serving two masters if the Lord tells women to submit to their husbands. Their ultimate Master is still Jesus:
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God.
-1 Corinthians 11:3
 
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