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A Personal Saviour?

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Caroline H

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We've all heard the phrase "accept Christ as your personal Lord and saviour" before. I grew up hearing it frequently among many other popular Christian terms, and never gave it any thought until recently. I think I stumbled upon a sentence in some article I was reading, that had nothing to do with this topic... and I don't even remember what it was about, but the author briefly questioned the "personal saviour" terminology and, that question has rattled around in my mind since then.

I know God in a personal way, just like everyone else does, because I've seen Him working in my life in tangible and intangible ways. However, at what point does this personal experience of God become a "personal relationship" with Him? This morning a friend of mine wrote on Facebook that she was created by God and was a work in progress, and was highly valued by Him. Someone she knows (I do not) replied with the popular children's song "He's still working on me", but replaced He with She. When I questioned this person she told me "For me, yes. Well, actually I think "God" is genderless, but I have issues with Males in Authority, and can relate better if I envision "God" as She. Part of my "personal relationship" I suppose." I then said that personal relationship is good, but it should never become a tool for us to reinvent God, to which she replied that after 42 years of relating to God as a 'she", she was not going to change. This saddens me, because what has happened to her is her personal view of God has become an idol. This may be somewhat extreme to most of us, because most of us wouldn't refer to God as a "she" (I hope), but the concept is still prevalent among us isn't it?

Maybe this will help to explain what I'm saying:



Privatization of faith is damaging in the community of faith. Robert Mulholland raises a crucial dimension of true Christian spirituality: "individualized spirituality undercuts any vital witness in the social order we live in."153 Mulholland further asserts that "corporate spirituality is essential, because privatization always fashions a spirituality that in some way allows us to maintain control of God."154 In other words, privatization of faith nullifies the preeminence of Christ. For it is "only as living cells in the body of Christ can we truly allow God to be in control. As soon as we take control of our relationship with God, we begin to isolate ourselves from the other cells and become a cancerous, destructive presence in the body."155 Moreover, Alan Jones adds: "Nothing could be more wonderful than a living encounter of saving power between the believer and God; but when it is made private and exclusive, it can be a terrible thing. It can be used to judge and hurt others. When this happens, conversion is made a mockery."156 "What we have is some kind of pathological formation that is very privatized and individualized, a spiritualized form of self-actualization. Although such forms of spirituality may be appealing to look at on the outside, quite comfortable in their easy conformity to the values and dynamics of our culture, they are like a whitewashed tomb that has deadness on the inside if they are not live-giving, healing and redemptive for others."157

Personal Experience

Popular theology also likes to redefine relating to God based on personal experiences rather than as defined by the Word. In other words, your personal experience in relating to God is more valuable than what is recorded, objectively, in the Word of God. This form of "worship" is not worship at all; it is mysticism. Merriam-Webster defines mysticism as the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (as intuition or insight). Mike Oppenheimer states emphatically:

When experience replaces Biblical knowledge, we have abandoned God's standard. Knowledge can be painful when it corrects us, but it can cost much more to follow falsehood, which by its nature is easy to swallow and soothing to those who refuse the truth.158

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" (1 Timothy 4:1-2). Besides, it is "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established" (2 Corinthians 13:1); because, "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation" (2 Peter 1:20). Thus, this redefinition is invalid and simply is a mask for unbelief, idolatry, covetousness and hypocrisy. Look what happened when people put more belief in their personal experience than in what was right before their eyes.

And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence. And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief. (Matthew 13:53-58)

Notice, the personal experience of the people gave them a false view of Jesus; hence, they did not belief the truth that was in front of them. Their unbelief caused God to stop working on their behalf: "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13). If God the Father is not working on our behalf, then Jesus is not working on our behalf. Jesus said, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30) and "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work" (John 5:17). If Jesus is not working on our behalf—making intercession for us (Romans 8:34), then we have no mediator. If there is no mediator, then we lose the promise of eternal inheritance: "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance" (Hebrews 9:14-15). What's more, if Jesus Christ, our head, is not working, then we, as part of the body of Christ, are incapable of working out our own salvation (Philippians 2:12); we are, in effect, in a slumber: "According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; unto this day" (Romans 11:8). It should be noted that the Greek word for slumber is katanyxis, which means torpor of mind: "a state of mental and motor inactivity with partial or total insensibility" as defined by Merriam-Webster. Thus, we are in a state of spiritual laziness unable to act even though we are admonished to "be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless" (2 Peter 3:14).

Individual Worship

Popular theology's push for a personal savior produces a corollary problem: a growing percentage of Christians that believe it is not necessary to partake in corporate worship. They do not belong to a particular church or they attend church on the Internet or they do not attend church at all. This is nothing more than pride, judgment and idolatry in full swing. This practice is in direct contradiction, of course, to Hebrews 10:25, which states: "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching" (see also Psalm 50:5; Psalm 102:21-22; Psalm 111:1; Isaiah 43:9; Acts 11:25-27). In addition, we are charged to deny ourselves and to "Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits" (Romans 12:16). "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another" (Romans 12:5); "And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you ... That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another" (1 Corinthians 12:21, 25).


http://resurrectedchurchministries.org/ ... avior.html

I would like to hear thoughts on this, but please keep the comments cordial... NO ARGUING :)
 
Personal experiences are valid and reinforce our faith when they do not contradict the word of God.

God could be referred as it, but not as she. These people who do so, usually bring ideas from some other pagan faith where according to them god is a female. I believe people coming from "Wicka" do this.

Galatians 1:6-9
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"
 
Caroline H said:
Yes it is, but is that pertinent?


If this person thinks that God is genderless, then why in her carnal mind call God a she ?

I believe that God is both male and female, but are seperated at this time, but will become one at the last marriage of the Lamb and the New Jerusalem. For now "she" is in the wilderness waiting. The wisdom of God is called a "she". The male side of God, our heavenly Father is the power and authority of God Almighty.

What she has done is reduce God to being genderless, while making up a new type of God that she feels she associates with by calling him a her. It is equivilant to calling good, evil, and evil , good. In other words, not saying it, as it should be.
 
Mysteryman said:
What she has done is reduce God to being genderless, while making up a new type of God that she feels she associates with by calling him a her. It is equivilant to calling good, evil, and evil , good. In other words, not saying it, as it should be.

While I agree with this part of your post, that is not exactly the point I was originally making. As I said in the OP, I think we can all agree that calling God "she" is not Biblical (I would say even blasphemous). But what I'm talking about is more on the pitch made to people to come to Christ to accept him as your personal saviour. Is that an accurate way to describe Christ, or is that a wrong impression to have? Christ redeems individuals to himself, but ultimately it is "church" as a whole that he will come for. Yes, the church is composed of individuals, but by saying "Jesus is my personal Lord and saviour" is it not neglecting the corporate aspect of salvation? Throughout the OT there is no concept of a personal messiah. We have records of individuals having a deep relationship with God, like David, so obviously your personal walk with the Lord is VERY important, and should be guarded and maintained. But is there a difference in having a personal relationship with Him and calling him your personal saviour? He saved (and is saving) me personally, but should I view him as my personal, very own saviour...as though I have ownership over him? Am I splitting hairs here :confused
 
I very much dislike calling Christ a "personal" Lord and Savior. Maybe that term comes from the fact that it takes a "personal" commitment from us, and God's work in us must be personal, meaning it can't come from our heritage or simply joining a church. That's just my speculation.

I don't think it's good to present Christ as our personal little buddy-friend.

Look at the nonsense that it causes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8
 
Caroline H said:
Mysteryman said:
What she has done is reduce God to being genderless, while making up a new type of God that she feels she associates with by calling him a her. It is equivilant to calling good, evil, and evil , good. In other words, not saying it, as it should be.

While I agree with this part of your post, that is not exactly the point I was originally making. As I said in the OP, I think we can all agree that calling God "she" is not Biblical (I would say even blasphemous). But what I'm talking about is more on the pitch made to people to come to Christ to accept him as your personal saviour. Is that an accurate way to describe Christ, or is that a wrong impression to have? Christ redeems individuals to himself, but ultimately it is "church" as a whole that he will come for. Yes, the church is composed of individuals, but by saying "Jesus is my personal Lord and saviour" is it not neglecting the corporate aspect of salvation? Throughout the OT there is no concept of a personal messiah. We have records of individuals having a deep relationship with God, like David, so obviously your personal walk with the Lord is VERY important, and should be guarded and maintained. But is there a difference in having a personal relationship with Him and calling him your personal saviour? He saved (and is saving) me personally, but should I view him as my personal, very own saviour...as though I have ownership over him? Am I splitting hairs here :confused


Hi C.

I know that we need to be tuned in, if you will. I am not even sure that is a proper way of expression either. But if you are asking if we can view our saviour as our own personnal saviour. I think it comes short of the true purpose of a saviour. He didn't come to just save you, or me personnally. He came to save those whom call upon the name of the Lord. For me, and my understanding, we were predestined. Not because we deserved to be one of the sheep, but because by God's mercy and grace, and the Love of God, we as a whole, were saved from our sins. Not all sins are forgiven. So we would have to sin a sin unto death in order not to be saved. He didn't die for you as an individual, but for all our sins and sinful nature. The only condition would be not to sin a sin unto death. Which God foreknew from before the foundations of this earth.

Jesus does call us his friends - John 15:14 & 15, which is based upon keeping his commandments. So there is always a condition of this friendship.

But to make Jesus a personnal friend and claiming a personnal relationship, seems a bit odd, in that a person making such a comment , tends to want to impress within a personnal relationship. Jesus does not want us to impress him, he wants us to do his commandments. Saying that one has a personnal relationship with Jesus , as his or her personnal saviour, suggest that this person has chosen Jesus. But here again, in John 15:16 Jesus reminds his disciples, that they did not chose him, but he has chosen them.
 
That which I deem personal, I do not care to share with anyone. For me, that goes against the Great Commission. I don't quite like the phrase. If I remember correctly, it was Billy Graham that first coined the phrase.
 
Mysteryman said:
Caroline H said:
Yes it is, but is that pertinent?
I believe that God is both male and female, but are seperated at this time, but will become one at the last marriage of the Lamb and the New Jerusalem.
:mouthdrop :scared


Vic C. said:
That which I deem personal, I do not care to share with anyone. For me, that goes against the Great Commission. I don't quite like the phrase. If I remember correctly, it was Billy Graham that first coined the phrase.
I tend to think of "personal saviour" as referring to being saved individually--making a choice at a personal level--as opposed to such beliefs as being saved by being born into a Christian family or becoming a member of a certain denomination. The Christian life most certainly isn't personal but the point of salvation is.
 
That's a good way of putting it, Free.

Oh, I missed that from MM! :o

MM, you get two chairs for that one!

chair.gif
chair.gif
 
I don't mind the phrase, but I see it as one that describes His intimate, and yes, personal intimacy with me. Amidst all of His Creation, He knows my inner most being. And I crave to know Him. Looking at Psalms 139 (NIV):

"1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.

2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.

4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

5 You hem me in—behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,"

12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.

13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you."


Certainly, there nothing prideful in knowing these words to be true. I'm Loved! :amen
 
Bent Radar said:
I very much dislike calling Christ a "personal" Lord and Savior. Maybe that term comes from the fact that it takes a "personal" commitment from us, and God's work in us must be personal, meaning it can't come from our heritage or simply joining a church. That's just my speculation.

I don't think it's good to present Christ as our personal little buddy-friend.

Look at the nonsense that it causes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8

The term "Personal Savior" takes away from Christ redeeming the world of mankind, saving all of those who are part of the Body as one "person" or "entity". Christ is not saving individual cells so much as an entire Body. The Scriptures very rarely support a "personal savior" idea, but rather, a "community savior".

So while I don't "dislike it", I understand what you are saying and prefer the corporate view of Savior.

Regards
 
Caroline H said:
However, at what point does this personal experience of God become a "personal relationship" with Him?

"This morning a friend of mine wrote on Facebook that she was created by God and was a work in progress, and was highly valued by Him. Someone she knows (I do not) . . . she told me "For me, yes. Well, actually I think "God" is genderless, but I have issues with Males in Authority, and can relate better if I envision "God" as She. Part of my "personal relationship" I suppose."



A personal relationship is just that. You have friends and acquaintances, parents and other authority figures. God wants your friendship and to be your Dad.

Regarding the woman's statement to you; I apologize Caroline because I can see you have a heart for souls, but I can't help laughing a little. She was being completely honest with you, and rest assured, she is probably more honest with God. I have never called God a she. But that doesn't mean the 'she' vernacular was never used in describing attributes of God.

Proverbs 1:20-25
20 Wisdom shouts in the streets.
She cries out in the public square.
21 She calls to the crowds along the main street,
to those gathered in front of the city gate:
22 “How long, you simpletons,
will you insist on being simpleminded?
How long will you mockers relish your mocking?
How long will you fools hate knowledge?
23 Come and listen to my counsel.
I’ll share my heart with you
and make you wise.
24 “I called you so often, but you wouldn’t come.
I reached out to you, but you paid no attention.
25 You ignored my advice
and rejected the correction I offered.


This statement is reminiscent of Christ's words to the Jews one day when He told them he had called out to them often and wanted to give them his heart, but they refused to listen.

Also Proverbs 4:8-13
8 If you prize wisdom, she will make you great.
Embrace her, and she will honor you.
9 She will place a lovely wreath on your head;
she will present you with a beautiful crown.â€

This is reminiscent of several scriptures where God promises to honor us and to give us a crown.

Last, is Galatians 3:28
28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

This woman probably knows God is referred to as 'he' in scripture; yet, she is frank and open with you concerning a short-coming in her life. God is neither male nor female. Adam was made first, so he was placed as the head over the woman. Scripture says man is head over woman as Christ is head over the church (which is made of men and women). But God isn't a man, or a he, or a she. 'He' is God.

I agree that calling God a 'she' does feel weird, but that's only because we can't imagine what God truly is like. I'm sure He loves her and isn't insulted by what she is doing. Her heart is all He sees.
 
There are basically 2 approaches to salvation we see today.

1- The popular modern approach is to believe that Jesus died for individuals (personal salvation) and that the blood of Christ covers all sins for all time (one repentance only). In this view it is the death of Christ that saves. He died only for Christians they believe. It is the blood of Christ that saves in this view. The individual decides whether he/she is saved or not based on their own belief and decision. This makes salvation a one-time event. It becomes an unconditional salvation. Obedience is not required. Jesus did all in the past. Grace is seen as continuous mercy for the chosen. God's wrath is seen as falling on all those who don't accept God's finished work.

2-The apostolic viewpoint is to believe that Jesus died for the sins of the world and that the blood of Christ covers PAST sins in they that believe. In this view it is the life of Christ that saves. It isn't the blood of Christ that saves but the cross in this view. IF one continues to walk in the life of Christ then that one is saved by so doing. If one stops or draws back into the flesh, then salvation is not attained. One must run lawfully in the Spirit to obtain the promises or else be disqualified. This makes salvation a process and a race. This salvation is conditional on continued abiding in Christ who is our life.
 
I think a "personal relationship" with Christ means that you have a relationship with him that is not based on anybody else. When I was a child, I knew OF Jesus through my parents and grandparents. But now my love for Him is much more intimate because He has revealed himself to me personally. He fights my battles, I tell Him everything, I cry to Him and I laugh with Him. And at the same time, I worship Him as Lord because Jesus is Lord. He is always with me, and I KNOW it.
When I was younger I believed that Jesus died for my sins and that God raised him from the dead on the third day. I believed it because my parents told me. But now I KNOW it, because God Himself has told me.
 
Amazed said:
I think a "personal relationship" with Christ means that you have a relationship with him that is not based on anybody else. When I was a child, I knew OF Jesus through my parents and grandparents. But now my love for Him is much more intimate because He has revealed himself to me personally. He fights my battles, I tell Him everything, I cry to Him and I laugh with Him. And at the same time, I worship Him as Lord because Jesus is Lord. He is always with me, and I KNOW it.
When I was younger I believed that Jesus died for my sins and that God raised him from the dead on the third day. I believed it because my parents told me. But now I KNOW it, because God Himself has told me.


That could be called a "personal revelation." No one is saved personally. Salvation is a race and a process. It isn't personal at all. If we run lawfully and faithfully we will be saved.
 
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