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Bible Study A Question...

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Rip Girl

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I'm a Catholic but i am strugeling with something that Catholics tend to belive.

Mary.

Catholics tend to think she is the queen of heaven but i have found nothing in the Bible and non-catholics have told me that is not true. Yes she did give birth to Jesus but does this mean she is the queen of heaven?

I'm really confused about this, please help me out.

I'm sorry if my question have disturbed anyone by what i have said.
 
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You may want to check out the topics I pasted below. They are all in the Apologetics section of the Forum.

NOTE: Some of those threads my help you. Some of the messages might lead you to even more confusion. Because some people take things way off topic, and some take things way out of proportion to the truth, you will need to be careful with separating the wheat from the chaff (if you know what I mean) . And then, some people hit it right on the mark of truth by providing scripture that shows truth.

You have to be the one to study your bible and pray God give you discernment to know truth from false teachings.

The bible holds the truth. Rely on truth in scripture, not on doctrine of man. :)

Be careful, I was born into the Catholic faith and that doesn't mean all Catholics can be trusted to profess truth as it is IN the Bible. They can twist and pervert it just like any other person of some different faith. So trust the bible, not man's opinion.

An example; A while back, I decided to see a counselor in the church. I told that counselor that I was tired of the sin in my life and that I was through with it and that I had cut that person out of my life because he refused to stop with the sin he wanted me to participate in. I told the counselor I just refused to carry on in that manner with that person, that it was unhealthy and it was pressing on my conscience. I was tired of having to deal with the guilt of doing wrong and I was tired of dragging it on for so long, so I told that "friend" of mine that we had to end our relationship. And the counselor once told me this. "So you want to be perfect now? That's no fun. "

:o Needless to say, I was shocked to hear that coming from a Catholic counselors mouth! And yes, that counselor was serious! So please do be careful and don't accept what man has to say in regards to your sense of purity and being close to Christ.
I don't think that counselor knew how I wanted to clean up my life and stop living IN sin. It must have gone right over their head. I stopped seeing the counselor also. I am now conscience clear and without that particular sin in my life. I am relieved instead of having to live with the guilt and the pain and suffering that particular sin brought into my life while I was accepting it rather than eliminating it, like I should have even before I went to that counselor for help. That counselor was not help! But just another person who says to accept living in your sin, instead of saying be born again of Christ Jesus by the renewing of your mind. THAT IS the only way to come out of the sin that you want to be rid of. That counselor did not rely on scripture but on man's flawed psychology! That counselor that was hired by the church spoke only HALF TRUTHS. Sometimes good, other times very contradictory with the bible. Who do you think I trusted? The counselor that was hired by the church, or Jesus the Christ our Savior from all sins?

My point being... If you want to be true to your commitment to Christ Jesus, you need to make Jesus your counselor and not trust in the false parts of what a what a person who calls themself a counselor. This is why you need to study and learn your bible as best as you can, so you learn to decern when one speaks truth or false doctrine.
Christians need to trust in the truth of God, not man's liberal minded false doctrines and made up contradictions to the truth of scripture.
(By the way, I an no longer a practicing "Catholic". I am not of any denomination. I am Christian. )



[ Poll ] To those who pray to Mary...:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15586

Catholics treat Mary the same way they treat God:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15614

Give props to the Mother of our Lord:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15650

The False Mary of Catholics, Orthodox and Muslims:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15851

Orthodox reasoning/Praying to Saints:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15886

Orthodox reasoning/Praying to Saints:
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15886


There are many more topics on the subject of praying to the saints and to Mary. You can do a search by just typing in the word Mary in the search engine for this forum.

Hope this has helped you. :)

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The more you read the bible the more God will open to you spiritual discernment.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Theselonians
9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 2 :3-4
3For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile:
4But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.

2 Corinthians 10:1-6
1Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:
2But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philippians 4: 8
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Joshua 1:8
8This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

2 Corinthians 7:10
10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Psalm 139: 23-24
23Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:
24And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

1 Peter 1:22-25
22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.


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I seriously recommend that you should consider leaving the Catholic Church.

First of all Mary is not Jesus' real mother, she is only the mother of his flesh.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
12:49 And he stretched forth his hand TOWARD HIS DISCIPLES, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Catholics call Mary the Queen of Heaven, who is a pagan goddess.

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Roman Catholics believe that the Eucharist, that little wafer that you eat, is their God, Jesus Christ. Therefore they are worshiping a wafer. Another example of idolatry.

Exodus 20:4-6
You shall not make for yourself a carved imageâ€â€any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth, you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

And take a look at this disturbing photo
popepray.jpg

It's the Pope bowing to an idol of Mary

So, in reality Roman Catholicism is not any less of a cult then the Mormons.
And take a look at this site for more answers.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/index.htm#rc
 
Gendou Ikari said:
First of all Mary is not Jesus' real mother, she is only the mother of his flesh.
I'm done "arguing" Catholic doctrine for a while, but I couldn't let this slide, as it possibly miscontrues Christ.

Christ was not two people (one human, and one divine), Christ is ONE person with two natures (one human, and one divine nature). So to say that Mary is "not Jesus' real mother" strips Christ of His humanity. Women do not become mothers of bags of flesh (bodies), they become mothers of persons. Mary is the mother of the person of Jesus Christ. Mary truly bore Christ in her womb, thus she is truly mother because Christ is true man (and true God). ONE person, with two natures. Fully divine, fully human. You cannot have one in Christ without the other.
 
I seriously recommend that you should consider leaving the Catholic Church.

I am going to leave the Catholic Church when I'm older, well as soon as i can! I already know what Church is best, its not Catholic, its not methodist or anything like that it is just pure Christian and the people there follow everything by the Bible and serve God like no other. It is the only Church i've seen that realy reads the Bible in church, others just seem to read prayer books.

I think.

Anyway, thanks for the replies you guys.

I just hope this topic isnt going to be an argument!
 
I don't want your topic to turn into an argument either... however, if you pay attention when you attend Mass--you ARE reading the Bible!

The first reading during the Liturgy of the Word is usually from the Old Testament, then you usually will sing one of the psalms, the second reading is usually from the New Testament, and finally, just before the priest's homily, a section from one of the Gospels is read!

Lastly, the majority of the Catholic Mass is based upon the Bible.
Biblical Background of Texts Used during the Mass...


The Entrance Rite:
Sign of the Cross (Matt 28:19; cf. John 14:13-14; Acts 2:21)
Formal Greetings:
A- “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ…†(2 Cor 13:14)
B- “The grace and peace of God our Father…†(Eph 1:2)
C- “The Lord be with you.†(2 Tim 4:22; cf. Matt 1:23; 28:20)
Lord, Have Mercy (Matt 15:22; 17:15; 20:30-31)
Glory to God (Luke 2:14; cf. Rev 4:11; 5:11-14)
Prayers & Amen (Neh 8:6; Ps 41:13; Rom 16:27; Heb 13:20-21; Rev 7:16)

The Liturgy of the Word:
Alleluia (Psalms 146-150; Rev 19:1-6)
Profession of Faith (Mark 9:24; John 11:27)

The Liturgy of the Eucharist:
Holy, Holy, Holy (Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8);
Blessed is he… (Ps 118:26; Mark 11:10)
Words of Institution (Mark 14:22-24; Matt 26:26-28; Luke 22:19-20; 1Cor 11:23-25)
Memorial Acclamations:
A- “Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again†(cf. 1 Thess 4:14-15; 1 Cor 15:3-23)
B- “Dying you destroyed our death…†(1 Cor 16:22)
C- “When we eat this bread…†(1 Cor 11:26)
D- “Lord, by your cross and resurrection…†(Luke 4:42)
Lord’s Prayer (Matt 6:9-13; Luke 11:2-4; cf. Mark 14:36; Gal 4:6)
Doxology: "for the kingdom, the power, and the glory..." (after Matt 6:13 only in some biblical manuscripts; cf. Rev 4:11)
Greeting of Peace (John 14:27; 16:33; 20:19-20; 20:26)
Lamb of God (John 1:29, 36; cf. Rev 5:6-13; 22:1-3)
Communion Preparation: “Lord I am not worthy…†(Luke 7:1-10)

And the Nicene Creed recited at Mass is also Scripturally based:
We believe (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
in one God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
the Father, (Matthew 6: 9)
the Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and all that is, seen and unseen. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

We believe in one Lord, (Acts 11: 17)

Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, (John 1: 18; 3: 16, Matthew 14: 33; 16: 16)
eternally begotten of the Father, (John 1: 2)
God from God, Light from Light, (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
true God from true God, (John 17: 1-5)
begotten, not made, (John 1: 18)
of one Being with the Father. (John 10: 30, 14: 6)
Through him all things were made. (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
For us and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
he came down from heaven: (John 6: 33,35)
by the power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 1: 28)
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1: 35)
and was made man. (John 1: 14)
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; (Mark 15: 25; John 19: 6, 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
he suffered death and was buried. (Mark 8: 31, Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
he ascended into heaven (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, (Matthew 24: 27, (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1, oodles of Revelations)
and his kingdom will have no end.(2 Peter 1: 11)

We believe in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
the Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
the giver of life, (Genesis 1: 2)
who proceeds from the Father and the Son. (John 15: 26)
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. (Matthew 3: 16-17, Psalm 150)
He has spoken through the Prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)


We believe (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)

in one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

Amen. (Psalm 106: 48)
 
we're reading parts of it though, we dont get a choice on what we read in the Bible, its set, every week of the year we have to read it. we dont read the whole Bible just parts and thats what i dont like.

It also feels like the Catholic Church has a big issue about appearance. you dont need a big fancy church with marble floors, you just need a room, nothing fancy.
 
CatholicXian said:
Christ was not two people (one human, and one divine), Christ is ONE person with two natures (one human, and one divine nature). So to say that Mary is "not Jesus' real mother" strips Christ of His humanity. Women do not become mothers of bags of flesh (bodies), they become mothers of persons. Mary is the mother of the person of Jesus Christ. Mary truly bore Christ in her womb, thus she is truly mother because Christ is true man (and true God). ONE person, with two natures. Fully divine, fully human. You cannot have one in Christ without the other.

No one is contending that Jesus was two persons, however, this duality of natures still does not make Mary the mother of the diety in Christ.
 
Rip Girl said:
we're reading parts of it though, we dont get a choice on what we read in the Bible, its set, every week of the year we have to read it. we dont read the whole Bible just parts and thats what i dont like.

It also feels like the Catholic Church has a big issue about appearance. you dont need a big fancy church with marble floors, you just need a room, nothing fancy.
The cycle of readings changes from year to year... in about 3 years the Church has gone through the entire Bible (sooner if you also attend daily Mass). You can (and should) also read the Sacred Scriptures on your own... I'm not sure about England, but in the States many parishes have youth groups, or smaller prayer groups that form Bible studies and other Christian functions and ministries. It all depends on what you're looking for.

(EDITED to add: this thread might be of some assistance... interestingly enough, no one ever responded to it)

The purpose of the appearance of the Church is to give glory to God in whatever we have available. God deserves our best. However, we really don't need anything aside from God--what we do have, is extra, and so we offer all to God.



KrissyLen said:
No one is contending that Jesus was two persons, however, this duality of natures still does not make Mary the mother of the diety in Christ.
Again, I'm not wanting to debate really in this thread...
However, the duality of Christ's human and divine nature is inseparable because they are united in the person of Jesus Christ. There's not human Jesus and divine Jesus. There is ONE Jesus, the Christ--the great mystery of the Incarnation is that God became man through the virgin birth of a humble woman of Nazareth. Mary is the mother of Jesus--not just of His flesh (as I explained above)... women are mothers of persons. The two natures in Christ are inseparable.
Even Elizabeth proclaims in the Scriptures that Mary is the Mother of God (the "God-bearer", "theotokos") :
Luke 1:43 "And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"
"Lord"="kyrios" (in the original Greek)="God". For what do we mean when we say that Jesus is Lord, except to say that He is God?

And that is my piece on the matter.
 
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