A Statement From A Recently Turned Non-Christian

[raoul duke]

Sounds like the mounting evidence against his belief systems was finally pushed over the top by a false history. Nevertheless, were it not this false history, it could be any number of true histories about early Christianity formation that toppled his religious holdings.


And there absolutely is reason to believe that Christianity is wrong concerning the historicity, authenticity, inspiration, and authority of the NT, not mention the entirety of the Bible (at least depending on your version of Christianity). I mean my goodness, the literalist view of the bible makes the world exist for 6,000 years when we can see stars of far greater light-year distances than 6,000 (thus showing the universe is much older than the historicity and authority of the hebrew bible's narrative).

only 35% of bible prophecies are to be taken literally, it makes me wonder if we're all missing the boat. churches teach every word of the bible is to be taken literally, while anybody that studies Jewish history and rabbinical tradition sees that most of the bible is symbolism, parable, and allegory. no wonder we have such conflict with science, we don't know how to properly interpret scripture and we are expecting the bible to be a physics textbook when it's only written to be a guideline to morality and salvation through Jesus Christ.

bottom line is everybody's faith is a matter between them and God, we may not feel God is there or listening, but He is always there whether we feel Him or not. How else would he test our faith? We all feel like we have to go through life alone, but that is the test. Matthew 24:13 tells that he who endures to the end, will be saved

 

[AIR]

1 Timothy 4:1

 

[raoul duke]

Thinking about it last night, it seems to me what turned the thread poster King James against Christianity was Christian subculture, which has nothing to do with God. It's pretty easy these days to get kicked out of churches for not conforming to a superficial ideal of what a Christian is. The Bible however is the truth, we are not

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

Thinking about it last night, it seems to me what turned the thread poster King James against Christianity was Christian subculture, which has nothing to do with God. It's pretty easy these days to get kicked out of churches for not conforming to a superficial ideal of what a Christian is. The Bible however is the truth, we are not

By Grace from ABBA in Christ Jesus, I am true, abiding in Him as His Word abides in me. Sheer Grace ! (and joyfully willingness to surrender all to Him in me; every thought, imagination, dream, all knowledge, wisdom, and facts; every feeling and emotion and action and deed and hope)

This(what may have turned him against ...) is true of many Jews as well --- according to Richard Wurmbrand from out of the holocaust and wrote "Tortured for Christ". As he put it in one of his chapters(sorry, don't have the book it was in any more) , he himself rejected christ but not Christ. i.e. he rejected the 'christ' of christendom because christendom has so many errors and doesn't comprehend Scripture very well compared to the Jews who believe in Yeshua.... so the 'christ' Wurmbrand and many other Jews reject is not THE CHRIST MESSIAH YESHUA but rather the 'christ' of the religion 'christendom' that is very very different in nature and in detail.
(Jews might have to explain this more....)
What made the difference and salvation for Wurmbrand was an older man in the mountains of Switzerland or somewhere who prayed like this 'God, send a Jew to me to tell him of your Savior Jesus, because I am too old and feeble and unable to go where a Jew / Jews are. '
and, True to His Word and His Nature, God sent that elderly gentleman Richard Wurmbrand one day (or night/) ... ... ..
The elderly man of God read from and disclosed Scripture to Wurmbrand (like Stephen did for the man in the chariot)
and disclosed the true nature of Yeshua and His Love and more, that Wurmbrand, who knew Scripture but didn't know Christ yet, was able to believe and accept and be immersed in Yeshua's Name according to Scripture, because it was accurately explained truthfully to him now.
This requires up to many years of prayer to understand and develop and learn the truth about, because 'christendom' is so ingrained in almost all of our upbringing, and of course it has been around since about 300a.d... ... ... and it doesn't like to be 'corrected', not even by the truth of Scripture !
"up to many years" , depends on Yhwh entirely, as someone may hear the truth once and immediately know it is true and believe in Yeshua right away; or they may take a long time to let go ('un-learn') of what they were taught growing up and surrounded by in so many different places as well as churches ---- Yhwh knows all about all, and He is able to accomplish this. The Truth never changes and never gives in to societal whims or follies.

 

[raoul duke]

By Grace from ABBA in Christ Jesus, I am true, abiding in Him as His Word abides in me. Sheer Grace ! (and joyfully willingness to surrender all to Him in me; every thought, imagination, dream, all knowledge, wisdom, and facts; every feeling and emotion and action and deed and hope)

This(what may have turned him against ...) is true of many Jews as well --- according to Richard Wurmbrand from out of the holocaust and wrote "Tortured for Christ". As he put it in one of his chapters(sorry, don't have the book it was in any more) , he himself rejected christ but not Christ. i.e. he rejected the 'christ' of christendom because christendom has so many errors and doesn't comprehend Scripture very well compared to the Jews who believe in Yeshua.... so the 'christ' Wurmbrand and many other Jews reject is not THE CHRIST MESSIAH YESHUA but rather the 'christ' of the religion 'christendom' that is very very different in nature and in detail.
(Jews might have to explain this more....)
What made the difference and salvation for Wurmbrand was an older man in the mountains of Switzerland or somewhere who prayed like this 'God, send a Jew to me to tell him of your Savior Jesus, because I am too old and feeble and unable to go where a Jew / Jews are. '
and, True to His Word and His Nature, God sent that elderly gentleman Richard Wurmbrand one day (or night/) ... ... ..
The elderly man of God read from and disclosed Scripture to Wurmbrand (like Stephen did for the man in the chariot)
and disclosed the true nature of Yeshua and His Love and more, that Wurmbrand, who knew Scripture but didn't know Christ yet, was able to believe and accept and be immersed in Yeshua's Name according to Scripture, because it was accurately explained truthfully to him now.
This requires up to many years of prayer to understand and develop and learn the truth about, because 'christendom' is so ingrained in almost all of our upbringing, and of course it has been around since about 300a.d... ... ... and it doesn't like to be 'corrected', not even by the truth of Scripture !
"up to many years" , depends on Yhwh entirely, as someone may hear the truth once and immediately know it is true and believe in Yeshua right away; or they may take a long time to let go ('un-learn') of what they were taught growing up and surrounded by in so many different places as well as churches ---- Yhwh knows all about all, and He is able to accomplish this. The Truth never changes and never gives in to societal whims or follies.

excellent post, reminds me that the "Christ" of Christian subculture and televangelists isn't the real Jesus.

 

[DRS81]

I am learning how to convert my beliefs and philosophies into a positive direction.

Hi King James. It's only by God's grace and our faith that we are saved. You can never earn salvation. All you need is that faith that God raised Jesus from the dead and that he is your savior. Sounds simple doesn't it. I wish it were so. You had made this thread in April. How are you coming along thus far. With Love, DRS81.

 

[King James]

I'm not writing this to be convinced otherwise of my beliefs. That is not possible.

 

[DRS81]

I'm not writing this to be convinced otherwise of my beliefs. That is not possible.

Luke 18:27.

 

[ironmonk]

I have recently left Christianity. March 30th to be exact. Information that I had discovered that day by accident was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'll give you some back round on my life. I wasn't raised in a strong Christian house in my early life. My dad seemed to have a belief in God but his lifestyle didn't match up being that he was an abusive drunk. My mother seemed to have little to no belief. My dad became in trouble with the law and found God in prison. When he got out I was taken to a variety of churches until my Dad found one that fit his beliefs. I went for a few years, then I stopped and never really went back or to any other church. In my early adult life I got more into my Christian religion and reading the bible, listening to the bible, watching biblical shows, documentaries, movies, reading apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, early church history, early Jewish history, you name it. I never felt that churches represented what I believed by reading the bible. I also didn't believe that God existed in the formation of any of the denominations. I didn't let anything get in the way of my beliefs. Scientific issues never got in the way of my beliefs. I could always find debunkers of scientific contradictions and attacks as well as opposing scientists with differing scientific information. I could always get past secular histories conflicting with biblical histories being that the victors writing history as well as even looking at it with a conspiratory eye giving priority to the biblical(I also did this with the scientific). I could get past virtually all ancient cultures having a flood story and many cultures having a creation story, many of them seeming older than the Hebrew's. You could always say, well the Hebrews only wrote it down on papers so the papers decentagrated where other cultures had stone tablets and such things that lasted longer in antiquity. For Christianity I could get past the fact that there were other older religions and philosophies that contain similar Christian happenings of Jesus in the Gospels as well as his sayings. I thought something similar to Justin Matyr's reasoning that the devil counterfeited the information to man before the actual happenings to cause doubt in the real story except I differed that it wasn't the devil but angel human hybrids with heavenly knowledge that knew of Christ and that he would eventually come that what would happen. The only thing that I could not reconcile is information that I discovered that it appears that the Flavian Roman Dynasty created the Gospels which started as a satirical work as well as a pacification psychological operation. This theory is considered by scholars as not accurate, Christian or secular. It is also rejected by many mythicists. Regardless of what "experts" feel, in my heart, I knew this was true after reading a couple books on the evidence as well as a few documentaries and interviews combined with I saw how it was used by governments and empires as enslavement and mind control. I'm not writing this to be convinced otherwise of my beliefs. That is not possible. I'm writing it as an explanation of how I used to be a Christian(saved about 22 years ago) albeit an unconventional one, an active member here for some time, to now being an agnostic. I won't post any links to my reasoning of my beliefs as this is a Christian site and I don't want to tear people away from their religion. Trust me, I'd rather have J.C. by my side and eternal life in heaven. I just no longer feel this is the situation. As a Christian I've always been a seeker of truth and that's how I've come to my conclusions. Now I have nothing, and I'm learning how to live with that. I still have my morality, likes and dislikes, etc. I also don't feel I wasted my life. I am learning how to convert my beliefs and philosophies into a positive direction.

Friend, it's not belief that comes first but faith, belief comes out of having faith and faith is to hope for what we don't see. When a friend is running late we hope for what we don't see, when our partner leaves us we hope for what we don't see, when we are waiting on a job we hope for what we don't see. What we hope for is to hope for the best while preparing for the worst. This is faith in action, but we have to choose what to put our faith into.

 

[King James]

Some of you don't understand things good. Also you are pushy.

 

[raoul duke]

Some of you don't understand things good. Also you are pushy.

they refuse to give up until they have reclaimed your soul for the kingdom of God, hopefully you don't get an inbox full of "turn or burn" type comments... there were some good comments on this in a book called unchristian by David Kinnaman and Gabe Lyons that I read recently

 

[King James]

That's good. This is now my last post.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

I agree with Obadiah, its takes the holy spirit to truly understand Christianity. Because that spirit gives you the wisdom to look out at the world and at your former self and understand things you couldnt perceive before. I have met people out here that say the spirit is all you need, you don't need the bible. But think about that...we would be lost without the bible. We would have no explanation for these forces at work in us. The devil, the holy spirit, we would have no idea what sin or repentance was without the bible.The spirit gives us "common sense". Doesnt tell us where we came from or where we go.

No offense, but I am unsure what you are trying to accomplish by posting this here. I mean, you said you want to be with Christ in heaven and eternity, yet you are trying to publicly humiliate Christ by refusing him on a Christian forum. And for what? to gain the sympathy of men? Only God knows if you are really christian. Thats not a bumper sticker or a T shirt. Its walking upright and casting that shining example in front of other men.

 

[ironmonk]

Leave him alone and let him go, if he can't question what he believes then his hope will be lost.

 

[tacdon]

OP- Can you testify that once saved always saved is wrong or do you think that you really were never saved in the first place?

 

[Obadiah]

Leave him alone and let him go, if he can't question what he believes then his hope will be lost.

It sounds like his hope is already lost. I think people here are just concerned for what he's doing (rejecting Christ) just as Jesus was concerned about that.

 

[Obadiah]

OP- Can you testify that once saved always saved is wrong or do you think that you really were never saved in the first place?

Please, let's be careful we stay on topic and not turn this into a debate over OSAS. There are other threads for that.

 

[ironmonk]

It sounds like his hope is already lost. I think people here are just concerned for what he's doing (rejecting Christ) just as Jesus was concerned about that.

I also rejected the christ and hated him, but if he did not let me go he would have ran a greater risk in losing me.

 

[for_his_glory]

How can a Roman Empire write the NT Gospels which teach that of the love of Christ and He being the very Spirit of God when they always have persecuted the Jews and Christians. Satan's time is drawing near an end and he will use anyone or anything to try and deceive even the very elect of God if possible. If one is truly Spiritually born again, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10 and are indwelled with the Holy Spirit then they will know that of Christ and His word as it's a personal relationship and not a religious relationship with Him. By applying what Jesus has spoken to my own life I have seen Him work in me and through me as there is nothing Spiritual that I can do of myself, but do Spiritual things by Christ whom His Spirit dwells in me. I've seen God supply my needs when there were no earthly ways to supply them for myself. I speak for my husband also. People can chose to believe what they want, but for me and my house we will serve the Lord, Joshua 24:13. I'll believe God over man any day as it's Satan who works through those to deceive us as even many are unaware that he does.


Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

[Kidron]

I have recently left Christianity. March 30th to be exact. Information that I had discovered that day by accident was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'll give you some back round on my life. I wasn't raised in a strong Christian house in my early life. My dad seemed to have a belief in God but his lifestyle didn't match up being that he was an abusive drunk. My mother seemed to have little to no belief. My dad became in trouble with the law and found God in prison. When he got out I was taken to a variety of churches until my Dad found one that fit his beliefs. I went for a few years, then I stopped and never really went back or to any other church. In my early adult life I got more into my Christian religion and reading the bible, listening to the bible, watching biblical shows, documentaries, movies, reading apocrypha, pseudepigrapha, early church history, early Jewish history, you name it. I never felt that churches represented what I believed by reading the bible. I also didn't believe that God existed in the formation of any of the denominations. I didn't let anything get in the way of my beliefs. Scientific issues never got in the way of my beliefs. I could always find debunkers of scientific contradictions and attacks as well as opposing scientists with differing scientific information. I could always get past secular histories conflicting with biblical histories being that the victors writing history as well as even looking at it with a conspiratory eye giving priority to the biblical(I also did this with the scientific). I could get past virtually all ancient cultures having a flood story and many cultures having a creation story, many of them seeming older than the Hebrew's. You could always say, well the Hebrews only wrote it down on papers so the papers decentagrated where other cultures had stone tablets and such things that lasted longer in antiquity. For Christianity I could get past the fact that there were other older religions and philosophies that contain similar Christian happenings of Jesus in the Gospels as well as his sayings. I thought something similar to Justin Matyr's reasoning that the devil counterfeited the information to man before the actual happenings to cause doubt in the real story except I differed that it wasn't the devil but angel human hybrids with heavenly knowledge that knew of Christ and that he would eventually come that what would happen. The only thing that I could not reconcile is information that I discovered that it appears that the Flavian Roman Dynasty created the Gospels which started as a satirical work as well as a pacification psychological operation. This theory is considered by scholars as not accurate, Christian or secular. It is also rejected by many mythicists. Regardless of what "experts" feel, in my heart, I knew this was true after reading a couple books on the evidence as well as a few documentaries and interviews combined with I saw how it was used by governments and empires as enslavement and mind control. I'm not writing this to be convinced otherwise of my beliefs. That is not possible. I'm writing it as an explanation of how I used to be a Christian(saved about 22 years ago) albeit an unconventional one, an active member here for some time, to now being an agnostic. I won't post any links to my reasoning of my beliefs as this is a Christian site and I don't want to tear people away from their religion. Trust me, I'd rather have J.C. by my side and eternal life in heaven. I just no longer feel this is the situation. As a Christian I've always been a seeker of truth and that's how I've come to my conclusions. Now I have nothing, and I'm learning how to live with that. I still have my morality, likes and dislikes, etc. I also don't feel I wasted my life. I am learning how to convert my beliefs and philosophies into a positive direction.

Yawn.


Ok here is a way for you to know that Christianity is a myth.
All you have to do is prove that Jesus didnt rise from the dead.
should be easy??.

Good luck with that.



K