Abomination of Desolation in 70AD - Part 2

[Rev33]

The man who goes to the Temple of God, to proclaim himself as God, is posing as The Messiah.

Is there a scripture that says some antichrist will do the above?

No. Not one single verse in all 66 Books of the Bible teaches that antichrist does any of those things.

 

[Rev33]

The man who goes to the Temple of God, to proclaim himself as God, is posing as The Messiah.

Is there a scripture that says some antichrist will do the above?

Nope. Not one single scripture in the entire 66 books of the Bible teaches antichrist does anything of the sort.

 

[Rev33]

Antichrist is a biblical term.

We have established this fact multiple times. None here disagree.

The man who goes to the Temple of God, to proclaim himself as God, is posing as The Messiah.

This man of sin is actually claiming to be the Messiah.

That is who the Jews are expecting to come to the temple they build.

The Messiah.

This man of sin will be The False messiah that deceives many false signs and wonders.

The man of sin, the son of perdition, the lawless one all are the same man.

This man will be followed as a "messiah".


JLB

Yet not one single scripture calls this man antichrist or teaches that this man should be called antichrist. Not one.

 

[Rev33]

Antichrist is a biblical term.

you and I have agreed on this fact multiple times.

The man who goes to the Temple of God, to proclaim himself as God, is posing as The Messiah.

This man of sin is actually claiming to be the Messiah.

That is who the Jews are expecting to come to the temple they build.

The Messiah.

This man of sin will be The False messiah that deceives many false signs and wonders.

The man of sin, the son of perdition, the lawless one all are the same man.

This man will be followed as a "messiah".


JLB

Yet not one single scripture calls this man antichrist or teaches that this man should be called antichrist. Not one.

 

[turnorburn]

Where's the OP they left out some verses when starting this thread.. :naughty

tob

 

[JLB]

These different names refer to one person.

Where is the scripture? when one demands scripture from others. shouldn't that person have the responsibility to show scripture when asked...

Again here is the scripture you requested.

Did read what is written here.

Do you understand that one person is mentioned in this scripture.

This scripture explains itself by the use of the singular word himself or he, as opposed to they or themselves.

Its one thing to not agree with the scripture I quoted, but you have insinuated that I did not even post a scripture.

I don't know what to say.

Here it is again - copied and pasted from above with more explanation added.

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8

These different names refer to one person.

The false messiah.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Yet not one single scripture calls this man antichrist or teaches that this man should be called antichrist. Not one.

Antichrist is a pretty straight forward term that means Anti Anointing. To deny that that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) anointed of God.

1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Worded different but denies that the father had or sent a son.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

This type of spirit should not be believed.

Yet not one single scripture calls this man antichrist or teaches that this man should be called antichrist. Not one.

There is no scripture that says we should not call him that either. We have a type of spirit that denies Jesus came, denies the father and son. We are told it's a type of spirit that does this. Son of perdition is a title that can sit on a throne. This person will deny Jesus and the Father to make himself as God.

I don't understand your point here, or why it matters what you call him. Same type of spirit operating here.

There is also a Edit feature to prevent multiple post on the forum.

This man denies the father and son, sets himself up as god ........................ Antichrist.

Mike.

 

[reba]

Using scripture to understand scripture the definition of antichrist is clear...

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
^this passage does not denote the 'one man ' idea

1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

^This passage very plainly say antichrist folks deny Jesus is the Christ. again not the one guy theory

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

^In this verse we see the 'spirit' of antichrist explained.



2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

^Here again, we see the words 'many deceivers '


The asking of 'whats your point' the point is the Scriptures say what they say. Which is not always what we at one time thought they said. To my simple mind if God had wanted the phrase/word antichrist used they way we do He would have used it. He didn't. and that is enough for me to try and use the words the way He spoke them.

 

[JLB]

Using scripture to understand scripture the definition of antichrist is clear...

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
^this passage does not denote the 'one man ' idea

1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

^This passage very plainly say antichrist folks deny Jesus is the Christ. again not the one guy theory

1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

^In this verse we see the 'spirit' of antichrist explained.



2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

^Here again, we see the words 'many deceivers '


The asking of 'whats your point' the point is the Scriptures say what they say. Which is not always what we at one time thought they said. To my simple mind if God had wanted the phrase/word antichrist used they way we do He would have used it. He didn't. and that is enough for me to try and use the words the way He spoke them.

Thats why I use the term False Messiah, as referring to 2 Thessalonians 2.

The three different names that describe the one person mentioned, to me is the false messiah.

That is what he does, in that he goes to the temple to proclaim himself the Messiah.

His intent is to be recognized as the Messiah.

He will work "signs" and "wonders" in order to deceive people into believing that he is the Messiah.

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10

He will be destroyed by the True Messiah when the True Messiah is revealed from heaven, and is seen by every tribe of the earth.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

The false messiah will be destroyed by the brightness of the Coming of The True Messiah.


JLB

 

[reba]

Thats why I use the term False Messiah, as referring to 2 Thessalonians 2.

 

[Deborah13]

and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

So I guess my question is, "showing himself" that he is God. Not showing others, not proclaiming to others that he is God but 'showing himself'.

What does that mean?

 

[JLB]

and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

So I guess my question is, "showing himself" that he is God. Not showing others, not proclaiming to others that he is God but 'showing himself'.

What does that mean?

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.

He will show himself, reveal himself, that is to say display himself, by going to the temple and working signs and wonders so that he himself will be revealed as the Messiah.

Maybe you interpret these scripture to mean that this will be a private revealing of himself.

Maybe you believe that this temple, and the signs and wonders are for just him, so that he himself can be made known to himself.

That thought had never crossed my mind.

Could you explain more about your thoughts along these line?


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Could you explain more about your thoughts along these line?

Sorry JLB, I don't know. That's why I mentioned it the way I did. I would have said what I thought if had a thought about it.

It is just worded so strangely that I think it must mean something. "showing himself" that he is God.

 

[JLB]

Could you explain more about your thoughts along these line?

Sorry JLB, I don't know. That's why I mentioned it the way I did. I would have said what I thought if had a thought about it.

It is just worded so strangely that I think it must mean something. "showing himself" that he is God.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21


when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' flee, for then there will be Great Tribulation...

He will be seen, he will be followed, he will be destroyed...


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Could you explain more about your thoughts along these line?

Sorry JLB, I don't know. That's why I mentioned it the way I did. I would have said what I thought if had a thought about it.

It is just worded so strangely that I think it must mean something. "showing himself" that he is God.

[MENTION=90220]JLB[/MENTION], looking at the Greek it probably means just what you said. YLT, says "showing off himself" and the word used is another of those "apo" prefix words.

 

[Rev33]

Thats why I use the term False Messiah, as referring to 2 Thessalonians 2. The three different names that describe the one person mentioned, to me is the false messiah. That is what he does, in that he goes to the temple to proclaim himself the Messiah. His intent is to be recognized as the Messiah. He will work "signs" and "wonders" in order to deceive people into believing that he is the Messiah. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 He will be destroyed by the True Messiah when the True Messiah is revealed from heaven, and is seen by every tribe of the earth. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8 The false messiah will be destroyed by the brightness of the Coming of The True Messiah.

Paul's passage in 2 Thess 2 shows that the event was already underway in his day. The son of perdition was already alive. He was at that time being restrained from his takeover of the Temple. This shows without question that it was a first century event.

 

[Rev33]

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21 when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' flee, for then there will be Great Tribulation...

Who is the "you" in this passage?

 

[JLB]

Thats why I use the term False Messiah, as referring to 2 Thessalonians 2. The three different names that describe the one person mentioned, to me is the false messiah. That is what he does, in that he goes to the temple to proclaim himself the Messiah. His intent is to be recognized as the Messiah. He will work "signs" and "wonders" in order to deceive people into believing that he is the Messiah. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 He will be destroyed by the True Messiah when the True Messiah is revealed from heaven, and is seen by every tribe of the earth. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8 The false messiah will be destroyed by the brightness of the Coming of The True Messiah.

Paul's passage in 2 Thess 2 shows that the event was already underway in his day. The son of perdition was already alive. He was at that time being restrained from his takeover of the Temple. This shows without question that it was a first century event.

I don't see the verse in 2 Thessalonians 2 that teaches that a person had in fact gone to the temple and had proclaimed himself as God, as well as worked signs and wonders leading the people away from Jesus.

I don't find in any of the writings of the New Testament where Jesus returned and destroyed this son of perdition by the brightness of His Coming.

Was 2 Thessalonians 2 written in 70 AD?

What was this son of perdition's name?

Are you claiming the resurrection is past?


JLB

 

[JLB]

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15-21 when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' flee, for then there will be Great Tribulation...

Who is the "you" in this passage?

Whoever see's the AOD.

 

[reba]

Where is the "holy place"? Once again is the 'new temple' going to be holy? IF you believe so, please tell me what you believe makes it holy.