What's new
  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • No longer will OSAS vx OSNAS be allowed to be debated, argued, or discussed in theology forum. Too much time is required to monitor and rescources used to debate this subject which hasn't been definitively decided in 3,000 years.

Abomination of Desolation in 70AD - Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

reba

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
47,107
Gender
Female
Are not the words there in Matt the words of Jesus...

Mat_24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
 

Rev33

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
163
Christian
Yes
Are not the words there in Matt the words of Jesus...

Mat_24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
Indeed. Jesus Christ would not call a 21st century "Temple" built by Talmudic Cultists "Holy", therefore he must not be speaking of such a structure here.
 

Rev33

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
163
Christian
Yes
6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
What is restraining will continue to restrain, so that he may be revealed IN HIS OWN time.
He was not being restrained from being born..... he was being restrained from his takeover of the temple.

The time is at the end of the age.
Yep

The time is when the third temple is built.
Scripture?
Where does scripture prophesy the construction of this 3rd temple?
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
Are not the words there in Matt the words of Jesus...

Mat_24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
Indeed. Jesus Christ would not call a 21st century "Temple" built by Talmudic Cultists "Holy", therefore he must not be speaking of such a structure here.
What would Jesus call the place where the showbread and candlestick are kept?

The name of that place is called the holy place.

It identifies the place where the AOD is set up.


JLB
 

reba

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
47,107
Gender
Female
What would Jesus call the place where the showbread and candlestick are kept? The name of that place is called the holy place. It identifies the place where the AOD is set up.
Yup we are talking about 2000 years ago.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
He was not being restrained from being born..... he was being restrained from his takeover of the temple.
He was restrained from being revealed at any other time than "his own time".

The time of the end, as it is written -

1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.Daniel 12:1-2

The AOD is associated with the end of the age and the resurrection.

Scripture? Where does scripture prophesy the construction of this 3rd temple?
You would have to read Daniel 9:26-27 and understand.


The temple destroyed in 70 AD, yet the prince who is to come puts and end to sacrifice and offering, and the AOD is set up in the middle of the 70th week.

26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary... 70 AD - Temple destroyed


27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." 70th week - Temple rebuilt and in use.


JLB
 

Sinthesis

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
5,188
Christian
Yes
Deb what makes a place holy?
The presence of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of our God.
Then why would that spirit abide in a 21st century stone building, built and operated by Talmudic cultists who openly reject Christ, and who have no existing covenant with God? Any Future "Jewish" temple will be no more "Holy" than the current Islamic Dome of the Rock is. They would be equal in their un-holyness.
The Jews want a temple, because they reject Jesus as Messiah.

Their goal is to build the Temple so he (their messiah) will come.

Because they construct this temple and label the rooms; outer court, holy place and holy of holies, doesn't mean the holy place is "holy".


JLB
Then why couldn't they just rename the Dome-of-the-Rock? Re-purpose it like the Muslims did with so many Christian Churches throughout the mid-east, such as the Hagia Sophia.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
Then why would that spirit abide in a 21st century stone building, built and operated by Talmudic cultists who openly reject Christ, and who have no existing covenant with God? Any Future "Jewish" temple will be no more "Holy" than the current Islamic Dome of the Rock is. They would be equal in their un-holyness.
The Jews want a temple, because they reject Jesus as Messiah.

Their goal is to build the Temple so he (their messiah) will come.

Because they construct this temple and label the rooms; outer court, holy place and holy of holies, doesn't mean the holy place is "holy".


JLB
Then why couldn't they just rename the Dome-of-the-Rock? Re-purpose it like the Muslims did with so many Christian Churches throughout the mid-east, such as the Hagia Sophia.
I am sure, if it was written in the OT, that they were to re-name the the Dome of the Rock, then they would follow those instructions.


Quote from Temple Mount Faithful website -

Build My Temple ... With No Delay!

Details of the 2013 Jerusalem Day march of the Temple Mount Faithful

The day when the G‑d of Israel appeared to the people of Israel and gave them the greatest victory and spoke to the heart of Gershon Salomon calling him to awaken his people to rebuild the Holy Temple in Jerusalem

Jerusalem Day 2013: the Faithful Movement stood on the Holy Temple Mount beseeching Israel: "Obey this call of G‑d, rebuild the Holy Temple immediately!"



Here is a link for questions: http://www.templemountfaithful.org/feedback.htm

Please ask them as to why they don't rename the Dome of the rock.





JLB
 

Rev33

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
163
Christian
Yes
27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." 70th week - Temple rebuilt and in use.

JLB
What an awful translation you used.... different from the link you gave that i put my cursor over thankfully, but what you typed changes the definition 180 degrees.

The decreed destruction is poured out on the "Desolate", NOT the Desolator JLB.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator." 70th week - Temple rebuilt and in use.

JLB

What an awful translation you used.... different from the link you gave that i put my cursor over thankfully, but what you typed changes the definition 180 degrees.

The decreed destruction is poured out on the "Desolate", NOT the Desolator JLB.
http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.htm

What is the difference in saying The desolate one, or the desolator?

The point is: The Abomination of Desolation takes place in a temple.

Sacrifice and offering take place within the temple.

Why ignore the New Temple that is being planned.

What good does it do to try and explain away bible prophecy being fulfilled.

Why cover it up?

Why deny it is happening?

Why do you want this to be hidden?

http://www.templeinstitute.org/temple_mount_awakening.htm


JLB
 

Rev33

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
163
Christian
Yes
The decreed destruction is poured out on the "Desolate", NOT the Desolator JLB.
http://www.templeinstitute.org/main.htm

What is the difference in saying The desolate one, or the desolator?
ALL the difference in the world my friend.

The CITY is is what is DESOLATE. The CITY is what suffers the decreed destruction that is poured out.

Why ignore the New Temple that is being planned.

What good does it do to try and explain away bible prophecy being fulfilled.
What is the Chapter and Verse of the prophesy being fulfilled by the templeinstitute?, and by what authority do you cite ANY current event as the fulfillment of Prophesy?


Why deny it is happening?
I don't deny that Talmudic cultists want a pagan temple built, but it is NOT the fulfillment of ANY bible prophesy.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
ALL the difference in the world my friend. The CITY is is what is DESOLATE. The CITY is what suffers the decreed destruction that is poured out.
26 "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The desolations of the city took place in 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed the city and sanctuary.


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate."

In the 70th week, which has nothing to do with the year 70 AD, we see Temple sacrifices taking place, as well as The Abomination of Desolation.

The Desolator of the Temple, sets up an Abomination in the Holy Place of the Temple.

This is what Jesus directed us to understand in Matthew 24:15.

This is one of the prophecies that teach us to look for another Temple at the end of the age.

What is the Chapter and Verse of the prophesy being fulfilled by the templeinstitute?, and by what authority do you cite ANY current event as the fulfillment of Prophesy?
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

Here in this Prophetic word about the future, we see Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15 spoken of.

I don't deny that Talmudic cultists want a pagan temple built, but it is NOT the fulfillment of ANY bible prophesy.
Another Temple is the fulfillment of Daniel 9:27 which is the 70th week of Daniel, as well as Jesus' word in Matthew 24:15, and Paul's word of prophecy in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11


Why would you want to cover up the truth of the scriptures?


JLB
 

reba

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
47,107
Gender
Female
This is one of the prophecies that teach us to look for another Temple at the end of the age.
That is your view of Scripture

Why would you want to cover up the truth of the scriptures?
Seeing things different is not covering up the truth... That would be like me asking you why do you choose to not believe the words of Jesus when He says "This generation" .. we just see things differently...
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
That is your view of Scripture
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Jesus seems to have the same view, as does Daniel and Paul.

I find it extremely disturbing that anyone who is a Christian and reads the words of Jesus, Paul and Daniel, could just simply ignore the idea of another Temple, with a false Christ proclaiming himself as God.

Now we see a movement in Jerusalem by several different groups and even calls from the Government for another Temple.

Yet you and those who hold to the preterist views still deny what Paul, Jesus and Daniel hay to say on this matter.


JLB
 

Rev33

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
163
Christian
Yes
That is your view of Scripture

I find it extremely disturbing that anyone who is a Christian and reads the words of Jesus, Paul and Daniel, could just simply ignore the idea of another Temple, with a false Christ proclaiming himself as God.

Now we see a movement in Jerusalem by several different groups and even calls from the Government for another Temple.

Yet you and those who hold to the preterist views still deny what Paul, Jesus and Daniel hay to say on this matter.


JLB
I do not deny their words, rather I affirm their fulfillment, on time, as promised.

Whats disturbing to me, is that those who hold to hyper-futurism attempt to force fit prophesy about a "Holy" temple in Christs generation to a modern day pagan cult "temple"

Such an idea was totally foreign to Jesus and the apostles..
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
That is your view of Scripture

I find it extremely disturbing that anyone who is a Christian and reads the words of Jesus, Paul and Daniel, could just simply ignore the idea of another Temple, with a false Christ proclaiming himself as God.

Now we see a movement in Jerusalem by several different groups and even calls from the Government for another Temple.

Yet you and those who hold to the preterist views still deny what Paul, Jesus and Daniel hay to say on this matter.


JLB
I do not deny their words, rather I affirm their fulfillment, on time, as promised.
So you believe the Coming of the Lord at the end of the age to gather His people at the resurrection, and destroy the Lawless one by the brightness of His Coming is all in the past?


JLB
 

Rev33

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
163
Christian
Yes
So you believe the Coming of the Lord at the end of the age to gather His people at the resurrection, and destroy the Lawless one by the brightness of His Coming is all in the past?


JLB
I believe ALL Bible eschatology had its PRIMARY fulfillment in the apostles generation.
Any application for US (or any post apostolic generation) must be viewed in light of the original application intended by Christ and the apostles for the original receivers.

As the temple itself was designed to be a microcosm of the created universe, it's destruction in 70AD may indeed foreshadow a future consummation of the cosmos, but it would not be an end of creation as much as a new outworking of it.
For sure, whatever God has in store for the future of His creation, the timing and details have not been revealed to men.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
So you believe the Coming of the Lord at the end of the age to gather His people at the resurrection, and destroy the Lawless one by the brightness of His Coming is all in the past?


JLB
I believe ALL Bible eschatology had its PRIMARY fulfillment in the apostles generation.
Any application for US (or any post apostolic generation) must be viewed in light of the original application intended by Christ and the apostles for the original receivers.

As the temple itself was designed to be a microcosm of the created universe, it's destruction in 70AD may indeed foreshadow a future consummation of the cosmos, but it would not be an end of creation as much as a new outworking of it.
For sure, whatever God has in store for the future of His creation, the timing and details have not been revealed to men.
Do you believe Jesus Christ has come and the resurrection is past?

Yes or No?


JLB
 

Rev33

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
163
Christian
Yes
So you believe the Coming of the Lord at the end of the age to gather His people at the resurrection, and destroy the Lawless one by the brightness of His Coming is all in the past?


JLB
I believe ALL Bible eschatology had its PRIMARY fulfillment in the apostles generation.
Any application for US (or any post apostolic generation) must be viewed in light of the original application intended by Christ and the apostles for the original receivers.

As the temple itself was designed to be a microcosm of the created universe, it's destruction in 70AD may indeed foreshadow a future consummation of the cosmos, but it would not be an end of creation as much as a new outworking of it.
For sure, whatever God has in store for the future of His creation, the timing and details have not been revealed to men.
Do you believe Jesus Christ has come and the resurrection is past?

Yes or No?


JLB
I'd have to say Yes AND No.
Already, but not yet.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
21,719
Gender
Male
So you believe the Coming of the Lord at the end of the age to gather His people at the resurrection, and destroy the Lawless one by the brightness of His Coming is all in the past?


JLB
I believe ALL Bible eschatology had its PRIMARY fulfillment in the apostles generation.
Any application for US (or any post apostolic generation) must be viewed in light of the original application intended by Christ and the apostles for the original receivers.

As the temple itself was designed to be a microcosm of the created universe, it's destruction in 70AD may indeed foreshadow a future consummation of the cosmos, but it would not be an end of creation as much as a new outworking of it.
For sure, whatever God has in store for the future of His creation, the timing and details have not been revealed to men.
Do you believe Jesus Christ has come and the resurrection is past?

Yes or No?


JLB
I'd have to say Yes AND No.
Already, but not yet.

This seems to be a good representation of Preterism.


Thanks for you answer.


JLB
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

2020 Hosting Fee

Total amount
$0.00
Goal
$667.40
Top