Abomination of Desolation in 70AD - Part 2

[Hope of glory]

If the "end of the age" did not come, then the Kingdom of God has not come!

OK, every crazy doctrine has a root. It's no different with pre, post trib.......... Election doctrine folks don't want to take any spiritual responsibility for anything. God is Sovereign, and what ever happens, just happens. Not wanting to take the blame for anything is the root, otherwise you have to believe something, and God forbid we should have to trust God and use our faith to change an outcome. Like that was never mentioned in the bible one time.

So, all this Preetree stuff is connected to the fact that without 70ad, then the Kingdom of God is not possible. So, it's just more involved than wanting to believe someone got their temple knocked over.

We know Kingdom is not an actual Kingdom as we use it in the English Language though. It's a Female Noun, so it can't define a place, any more than a door defines a room.

How can you being a "kingdom now believer" still be waiting on a "future kingdom" and the end of a fulfilled and abolished age?

I can see the actual issue. One thing that impresses me though about you Hope in Glory is that you can read!!!! You would be amazed............... Kingdom of Heaven and Kingdom of God are spelled different, and so your ability to read has that going for you. You see the difference.

I see the issue, if Jesus sets up His Kingdom on Earth later, then there is no Kingdom now. In fact, the Kingdom of God just being here and available to us is tied to healing, casting out devils and preaching the gospel of the Kingdom brings faith to people to receive just awesome things from God. A whole lot better sermon than God is just so mysterious in all his ways and you just never know what God is going to do, you just never know.

I guess I have to ask myself, How could I convince you not to take this preetree stuff so out of the water, and still provide a Kingdom of God here now to operate in? How do I do that? We have an (Possible) Operation of now, and Jesus being physically on the earth in charge later. How do I work this out with you?

Mike.

Brother Mike

You said: "I guess I have to ask myself, How could I convince you not to take this preetree stuff so out of the water, and still provide a Kingdom of God here now to operate in? How do I do that? We have an (Possible) Operation of now, and Jesus being physically on the earth in charge later. How do I work this out with you?"

Let's talk then my friend.
First: what do you mean by "preetree stuff"
What exactly am I saying is so "out of the water"? And what does "out of the water" mean?

Please answer these questions so we can address the things we are not "connecting on"

Just so you know, I strongly believe in the operation of the kingdom her and now, this is a foundation of apostolic doctrine and at the very heart of why Jesus endured the cross!
I also believe in the future return of the Lord on the earth in his resurrected body, reigning over all and in all!

....let's work this out!!

Blessings

Hope of glory

 

[Brother Mike]

Just so you know, I strongly believe in the operation of the kingdom her and now, this is a foundation of apostolic doctrine and at the very heart of why Jesus endured the cross!
I also believe in the future return of the Lord on the earth in his resurrected body, reigning over all and in all!

....let's work this out!!

Blessings

I think you have given enough evidence about a temple that could have been knocked over. My connection to Peter is an attempt to compare scriptures but it does not mean its so. I agree the Kingdom of God is now here. I am having a bit of issues with no pre-post trib rapture and the 6th seal having also occurred in 70ad....... I think your evidence is good enough about the Kingdom of God, and some temple, but I don't understand your determination to say Jesus was talking about that generation when that generation would needs some major news events to be proven out that are simply not there.

We can have the Kingdom of God here and now, we can have a temple knocked over. I don't see the 6th seal yet released or ever recorded. That is my issue. Why take it so far, it don't make sense when you do such a good job to a certain point.

Mike.

 

[Hope of glory]

Just so you know, I strongly believe in the operation of the kingdom her and now, this is a foundation of apostolic doctrine and at the very heart of why Jesus endured the cross!
I also believe in the future return of the Lord on the earth in his resurrected body, reigning over all and in all!

....let's work this out!!

Blessings

I think you have given enough evidence about a temple that could have been knocked over. My connection to Peter is an
attempt to compare scriptures but it does not mean its so. I agree the Kingdom of God is now here. I am having a bit of issues with no pre-post trib rapture and the 6th seal having also occurred in 70ad....... I think your evidence is good enough about the Kingdom of God, and some temple, but I don't understand your determination to say Jesus was talking about that generation when that generation would needs some major news events to be proven out that are simply not there.

We can have the Kingdom of God here and now, we can have a temple knocked over. I don't see the 6th seal yet released or ever recorded. That is my issue. Why take it so far, it don't make sense when you do such a good job to a certain point.

Mike.

Brother Mike

I hear you saying 2 things:

1. You dont understand why I see no "rapture of the church".
2. You don't understand why I see the 6th seal fulfilled (specifically the darkening of the sun and moon and the falling of the stars).

Before we discuss these things I ask you a question based on your last post statement, you said:
"to say Jesus was talking about that generation when that generation would needs some major news events to be proven out that are simply not there."
Here is my question in all sincerity:
Have you considered that "the major events" you are referring to may not find fulfillment how you have imagined?
Seriously, Jesus' words are very plain...."this generation shall not pass until all these things
are fulfilled".
At least consider the possibility that Jesus' plain words mean just what they say, and that the "sun moon and stars thing" may find fulfillment in a meaning other than the literal darkening of the heavenly lights and the falling of the literal stars.
(I assure you that I am not taking this "too far")
Let's deal with #1.

I will ask you some questions which will help to understand "the seals"

Rev.5:1 "And I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals"

Question: what is this "scroll" (book)?
What is written on both sides?
Why was it sealed?

 

[Deborah13]

I would ask our son "you want peanut butter and jelly or jelly and peanut butter?" I would give him the sandwich and he would turn it over and teasingly tell me I did it wrong... He got it .... My baby girl could never decide which one she wanted... Just as those kids were in different places in their lives we are with our walk with the LORD. Thanks to you all for being here.....

LOL, clever.

Thank you, Reba. For being here!

 

[Hope of glory]

I would ask our son "you want peanut butter and jelly or jelly and peanut butter?" I would give him the sandwich and he would turn it over and teasingly tell me I did it wrong... He got it .... My baby girl could never decide which one she wanted... Just as those kids were in different places in their lives we are with our walk with the LORD. Thanks to you all for being here.....

LOL, clever.

Thank you, Reba. For being here!

This is a call back to the OP!

The contextual language in Mark 13 itself testifies of the fact that the AOD was a first century event!

Mark 13:1 "And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him.....2 And Jesus answering said unto him...."
Fact: in verse 2 Jesus' was speaking to his disciples, his first century contemporary generation

3 "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately" 5 And Jesus answering them..."
Fact: in verse 2 Jesus' disciples asked him 2 questions, and in verse 5 Jesus begins to answer THEM.
Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation

14 "But when you shall see the AOD...."
Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation and he tells them that THEY will see the AOD.

Fact: This discourse was spoken by Jesus to his first century generation to whom he said would see the AOD.

Question: In verse 14 did Jesus tell his first century disciples to whom he was speaking that they would see the AOD....Yes or No?

 

[Hope of glory]

I would ask our son "you want peanut butter and jelly or jelly and peanut butter?" I would give him the sandwich and he would turn it over and teasingly tell me I did it wrong... He got it .... My baby girl could never decide which one she wanted... Just as those kids were in different places in their lives we are with our walk with the LORD. Thanks to you all for being here.....

LOL, clever.

Thank you, Reba. For being here!

This is a call back to the OP!

The contextual language in Mark 13 itself testifies of the fact that the AOD was a first century event!

Mark 13:1 "And as he went out of the temple, one of HIS DISCIPLES saith unto him.....2 And Jesus answering said unto him...."
Fact: in verse 2 Jesus' was speaking to his disciples, his first century contemporary generation

3 "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately" 5 And Jesus answering THEM...."


Fact: in verse 2 Jesus' disciples asked him 2 questions, and in verse 5 Jesus begins to answer THEM.
Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation

14 "But when YOU shall see the AOD...."

Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation and he tells them that THEY will see the AOD.

Fact: This discourse was spoken by Jesus to his first century generation to whom he said would see the AOD.

Question: In verse 14 did Jesus tell his first century disciples to whom he was speaking that they would see the AOD....Yes or No?

 

[n2thelight]

Hope of glory

Brother Mike

You asked: "Why is it so important to put all this in 70ad?"

Thank you for asking this "million dollar question"!

If the "end of the age" did not come, then the Kingdom of God has not come!
This is why it's such a damnable doctrine to put these things in our future.
It's this simple:
In the age prior to the cross, the kingdom had not yet come, Jesus was the "Kingdom come"....the kingdom personified
Since the cross, the kingdom has come, the Messianic age has come!
If the end of the age did not come than the kingdom age has not come
If the kingdom has not come, than we are yet in our sins

How can you being a "kingdom now believer" still be waiting on a "future kingdom" and the end of a fulfilled and abolished age?

Let's go to Act's

Acts 1:6 "When they therefore were come together, they asked of Him, saying, "Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"

Acts 1:7 "And He said unto them, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power."

Question,if the Kingdom came after the cross,why did the Apostle's not know,and why didn't Christ tell them?

Bare in mind that this is after the cross...........

Also

Acts 1:11 "Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."

When did the above happen?Let's go to Zechaiiah for a 2nd witness..

Zechariah 14:4 "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

Again when did this happen????

 

[JLB]

Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation 14 "But when YOU shall see the AOD...."

37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

 

[JLB]

Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation 14 "But when YOU shall see the AOD...."

37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

 

[Hope of glory]

Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation 14 "But when YOU shall see the AOD...."

37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

JLB

Question: In verse 14 did Jesus tell his first century disciples to whom he was speaking that they would see the AOD....Yes or No?

 

[JLB]

Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation 14 "But when YOU shall see the AOD...."

37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

JLB

Question: In verse 14 did Jesus tell his first century disciples to whom he was speaking that they would see the AOD....Yes or No?

Not only was He speaking directly to His 12 disciples, it was Mark, His Disciple that recorded what He said.

What He said, pertains directly to those who see the AoD and experience the tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.


If these were the only Disciples of Jesus Christ then I would say, Yes.

Since this was written to all the disciples of Jesus Christ, then clearly what was written here, as well as the Law, The Prophets and the Psalms and all Scripture is to and for ALL His disciples.

14 "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

The great tribulation did not happen in the first century, nor has it happened yet.


24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


The sign of the sun, moon and stars has not happened yet.


27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.


The resurrection and the rapture has not happened yet.


In addition, the other signs that lead up to the AoD, and the sun, moon and stars event are happening now.

So the answer to your question, Jesus was speaking directly to His disciples, and warning them of these things, so that they would in turn teach their disciples to continue teaching them all thing I have taught you.

What Jesus taught His disciples is certainly relevant for us, and pertains specifically to those who see the AoD and experience the great tribulation.What I say to you, I say to all.


JLB

 

[Sinthesis]

Fact: Jesus is still speaking to his first century generation 14 "But when YOU shall see the AOD...."

37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!"

JLB

Question: In verse 14 did Jesus tell his first century disciples to whom he was speaking that they would see the AOD....Yes or No?

Not only was He speaking directly to His 12 disciples, it was Mark, His Disciple that recorded what He said.

What He said, pertains directly to those who see the AoD and experience the tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.


If these were the only Disciples of Jesus Christ then I would say, Yes.

Since this was written to all the disciples of Jesus Christ, then clearly what was written here, as well as the Law, The Prophets and the Psalms and all Scripture is to and for ALL His disciples.

14 "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

The great tribulation did not happen in the first century, nor has it happened yet.


24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


The sign of the sun, moon and stars has not happened yet.


27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.


The resurrection and the rapture has not happened yet.


In addition, the other signs that lead up to the AoD, and the sun, moon and stars event are happening now.

So the answer to your question, Jesus was speaking directly to His disciples, and warning them of these things, so that they would in turn teach their disciples to continue teaching them all thing I have taught you.

What Jesus taught His disciples is certainly relevant for us, and pertains specifically to those who see the AoD and experience the great tribulation.What I say to you, I say to all.


JLB

Why would Jesus instruct two thousand years worth of His followers to watch all their lives for something in vain?
I believe that what most Christians today are watching for is a misinterpretation of the signs Jesus gave to His Jewish contemporaries (let him that readeth understand).

 

[JLB]

JLB

Question: In verse 14 did Jesus tell his first century disciples to whom he was speaking that they would see the AOD....Yes or No?

Not only was He speaking directly to His 12 disciples, it was Mark, His Disciple that recorded what He said.

What He said, pertains directly to those who see the AoD and experience the tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.


If these were the only Disciples of Jesus Christ then I would say, Yes.

Since this was written to all the disciples of Jesus Christ, then clearly what was written here, as well as the Law, The Prophets and the Psalms and all Scripture is to and for ALL His disciples.

14 "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

The great tribulation did not happen in the first century, nor has it happened yet.


24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


The sign of the sun, moon and stars has not happened yet.


27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.


The resurrection and the rapture has not happened yet.


In addition, the other signs that lead up to the AoD, and the sun, moon and stars event are happening now.

So the answer to your question, Jesus was speaking directly to His disciples, and warning them of these things, so that they would in turn teach their disciples to continue teaching them all thing I have taught you.

What Jesus taught His disciples is certainly relevant for us, and pertains specifically to those who see the AoD and experience the great tribulation.What I say to you, I say to all.


JLB

Why would Jesus instruct two thousand years worth of His followers to watch all their lives for something in vain?
I believe that what most Christians today are watching for is a misinterpretation of the signs Jesus gave to His Jewish contemporaries (let him that readeth understand).

By your post, you think the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the resurrection at the end of the age is something in vain?

If that is your opinion, it is sad.


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

JLB

Question: In verse 14 did Jesus tell his first century disciples to whom he was speaking that they would see the AOD....Yes or No?

Not only was He speaking directly to His 12 disciples, it was Mark, His Disciple that recorded what He said.

What He said, pertains directly to those who see the AoD and experience the tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.


If these were the only Disciples of Jesus Christ then I would say, Yes.

Since this was written to all the disciples of Jesus Christ, then clearly what was written here, as well as the Law, The Prophets and the Psalms and all Scripture is to and for ALL His disciples.

14 "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

The great tribulation did not happen in the first century, nor has it happened yet.


24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


The sign of the sun, moon and stars has not happened yet.


27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.


The resurrection and the rapture has not happened yet.


In addition, the other signs that lead up to the AoD, and the sun, moon and stars event are happening now.

So the answer to your question, Jesus was speaking directly to His disciples, and warning them of these things, so that they would in turn teach their disciples to continue teaching them all thing I have taught you.

What Jesus taught His disciples is certainly relevant for us, and pertains specifically to those who see the AoD and experience the great tribulation.What I say to you, I say to all.



JLB

Why would Jesus instruct two thousand years worth of His followers to watch all their lives for something in vain?
I believe that what most Christians today are watching for is a misinterpretation of the signs Jesus gave to His Jewish contemporaries (let him that readeth understand).

Amen Synthesis!

 

[Hope of glory]

JLB

Question: In verse 14 did Jesus tell his first century disciples to whom he was speaking that they would see the AOD....Yes or No?

Not only was He speaking directly to His 12 disciples, it was Mark, His Disciple that recorded what He said.

What He said, pertains directly to those who see the AoD and experience the tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.


If these were the only Disciples of Jesus Christ then I would say, Yes.

Since this was written to all the disciples of Jesus Christ, then clearly what was written here, as well as the Law, The Prophets and the Psalms and all Scripture is to and for ALL His disciples.

14 "So when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not" (let the reader understand), "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 15 Let him who is on the housetop not go down into the house, nor enter to take anything out of his house. 16 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 17 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 18 And pray that your flight may not be in winter. 19 For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.

The great tribulation did not happen in the first century, nor has it happened yet.


24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.


The sign of the sun, moon and stars has not happened yet.


27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.


The resurrection and the rapture has not happened yet.


In addition, the other signs that lead up to the AoD, and the sun, moon and stars event are happening now.

So the answer to your question, Jesus was speaking directly to His disciples, and warning them of these things, so that they would in turn teach their disciples to continue teaching them all thing I have taught you.

What Jesus taught His disciples is certainly relevant for us, and pertains specifically to those who see the AoD and experience the great tribulation.What I say to you, I say to all.


JLB

Why would Jesus instruct two thousand years worth of His followers to watch all their lives for something in vain?
I believe that what most Christians today are watching for is a misinterpretation of the signs Jesus gave to His Jewish contemporaries (let him that readeth understand).

By your post, you think the Second Coming of Jesus Christ and the resurrection at the end of the age is something in vain?

If that is your opinion, it is sad.


JLB

JLB

By stating that Math24 Mark 13 and Luke 21 refer to "Jesus' second coming" and the resurrection, you fulfill the words of Synthesis...."a misinterpretation of the signs Jesus gave to his Jewish contemporaries"!

Also, in response to your previous post. All scripture is written FOR US (2Tim.3:16), but was not written TO us!.....Huge difference.
Mark 13:14 was written for us (for doctrine, learning etc), but it was written, and more specifically SPOKEN TO the first century disciples.....this is a FACT!

You can't ignore WHO this was spoken to.
"...when you shall see the AOD..."
This was spoken by Jesus and written by Mark TO the first century disciple (that generation).....this is an undisputed fact!

Therefore, one must ask themselves.....since Jesus told his disciples that they would see the AOD did they in fact see it? Or did Jesus' words mean nothing and have no relevance to his hearers?

The conclusion is elementary....,Jesus said that his first century generation would see the AOD so they did in fact see it.
Verse 30 also confirms this..."this generation (the first century generation) shall not pass until all these things be done"

In verse 14 Jesus tells his disciples that they would see the AOD, then in verse 30 he confirms it with an oath (verily verily) and says that this generation (his first century generation) will not die until this is done!

There is such a "simplicity of the gospel"!

JLB, I challenge you! Show me one time in the gospels (besides Math.24:34 Mark13:30 Luke21:32) where the phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus, does not refer to his first century contemporary generation!

If you can't, than you must admit that the phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus in the 3 verses listed above also refer to his first century contemporary generation.....which of course they do!

Good luck!
Hope of glory

 

[JLB]

Also, in response to your previous post. All scripture is written FOR US (2Tim.3:16), but was not written TO us!.....Huge difference. Mark 13:14 was written for us (for doctrine, learning etc), but it was written, and more specifically SPOKEN TO the first century disciples.....this is a FACT! You can't ignore WHO this was spoken to.

3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3

Who does this scripture pertain to, just the ones whom Jesus spoke to, who were present at the time, or does it pertain to all.


They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Acts 16:31

Is this scripture just for those who heard it, or for all?

JLB, I challenge you! Show me one time in the gospels (besides Math.24:34 Mark13:30 Luke21:32) where the phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus, does not refer to his first century contemporary generation!

33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. Matthew 24:33-34


This generation refers to the generation that see's the signs that Jesus listed, rather that the first century generation as you claim.


The first century generation did not see the Abomination of Desolation with the associated Great Tribulation.

The first century generation did not see -

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.

The first century generation did not see The Son of Man Coming in power and great glory, not did they experience the resurrection of the dead.


So, there you have it. There is your scripture using "this generation" that certainly does not refer to the first century generation.


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

Also, in response to your previous post. All scripture is written FOR US (2Tim.3:16), but was not written TO us!.....Huge difference. Mark 13:14 was written for us (for doctrine, learning etc), but it was written, and more specifically SPOKEN TO the first century disciples.....this is a FACT! You can't ignore WHO this was spoken to.

3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3

Who does this scripture pertain to, just the ones whom Jesus spoke to, who were present at the time, or does it pertain to all.


They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Acts 16:31

Is this scripture just for those who heard it, or for all?

JLB, I challenge you! Show me one time in the gospels (besides Math.24:34 Mark13:30 Luke21:32) where the phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus, does not refer to his first century contemporary generation!

33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these
things take place. Matthew 24:33-34


This generation refers to the generation that see's the signs that Jesus listed, rather that the first century generation as you claim.


The first century generation did not see the Abomination of Desolation with the associated Great Tribulation.

The first century generation did not see -

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing
them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.

The first century generation did not see The Son of Man Coming in power and great glory, not did they experience the resurrection of the dead.


So, there you have it. There is your scripture using "this generation" that certainly does not refer to the first century generation.


JLB

You said "3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3
Who does this scripture pertain to, just the ones whom Jesus spoke to, who were present at the time, or does it pertain to all."

You are proving my point! Read your own words...."who does this scripture PERTAIN TO"?
That's not the issue nor the important question. Of course that scripture "pertains" to all believers, the question is, who was it SPOKEN TO?

It was spoken to the first century audience and therefore it pertains to them and also pertains to us......but it WAS NOT spoken TO US, we were not there! Are you understanding this.

The same applies for Mark.13:14 "you shall see the AOD...".
This was spoken TO the first century audience (generation) and therefore applies to them as well as to us.....but it was not spoken to us....we were not there!

What you are trying to say is that Jesus' words in Mark 13:14 did not apply at all to his first century generation, but only applies to us......nonsense!!
Because this was SPOKEN TO THEM it must of necessity also APPLY TO THEM in some way or another. It must!

So, how does "seeing" the AOD apply the generation whom Jesus spoke these words to?
When Jesus looked in the eyes of his disciples and said "you shall see the AOD", how did this apply to THEIR LIVES?

You even quoted yourself "what I say to you I say to all..."
Therefore Mark 13:14 was in fact spoken to his first century hearers (they are a part of "all"), so again, since it was spoken to them, how did it apply to them?

Furthermore, this was my challenge:

JLB, I challenge you! Show me one time in the gospels (besides Math.24:34 Mark13:30 Luke21:32) where the phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus, does not refer to his first century contemporary generation!

I said "besides Math.24:34....", yet you used Math.24 as your example?????
You obviously can't give one JLB.
15 times the phrase "this generation" is spoken by Jesus in the gospels besides the above scripture, and NOT ONCE does it refer to any other generation except his first century generation!!!!!

Hope of glory

 

[Hope of glory]

Conclusion:
The AOD was witnessed by Jesus' first century disciples just as he told them they would (Mark 13:14)
The phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus in Math.24:34 mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32 refers to Jesus' first century contemporary generation just like it does all the other times Jesus used this phrase in the gospels (the reader should search this out and bring correction if this statement in incorrect).
The AOD has nothing to do with the future, it was a historical event which took place between 30-70ad (one generation) just as Jesus said it would! (Mark13:14,30)

Blessings
Hope of glory

 

[JLB]

Also, in response to your previous post. All scripture is written FOR US (2Tim.3:16), but was not written TO us!.....Huge difference. Mark 13:14 was written for us (for doctrine, learning etc), but it was written, and more specifically SPOKEN TO the first century disciples.....this is a FACT! You can't ignore WHO this was spoken to.

3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3

Who does this scripture pertain to, just the ones whom Jesus spoke to, who were present at the time, or does it pertain to all.


They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Acts 16:31

Is this scripture just for those who heard it, or for all?

JLB, I challenge you! Show me one time in the gospels (besides Math.24:34 Mark13:30 Luke21:32) where the phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus, does not refer to his first century contemporary generation!

33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these
things take place. Matthew 24:33-34


This generation refers to the generation that see's the signs that Jesus listed, rather that the first century generation as you claim.


The first century generation did not see the Abomination of Desolation with the associated Great Tribulation.

The first century generation did not see -

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing
them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.

The first century generation did not see The Son of Man Coming in power and great glory, not did they experience the resurrection of the dead.


So, there you have it. There is your scripture using "this generation" that certainly does not refer to the first century generation.


JLB

You said "3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3
Who does this scripture pertain to, just the ones whom Jesus spoke to, who were present at the time, or does it pertain to all."

You are proving my point! Read your own words...."who does this scripture PERTAIN TO"?
That's not the issue nor the important question. Of course that scripture "pertains" to all believers, the question is, who was it SPOKEN TO?

It was spoken to the first century audience and therefore it pertains to them and also pertains to us......but it WAS NOT spoken TO US, we were not there! Are you understanding this.

The same applies for Mark.13:14 "you shall see the AOD...".
This was spoken TO the first century audience (generation) and therefore applies to them as well as to us.....but it was not spoken to us....we were not there!

What you are trying to say is that Jesus' words in Mark 13:14 did not apply at all to his first century generation, but only applies to us......nonsense!!
Because this was SPOKEN TO THEM it must of necessity also APPLY TO THEM in some way or another. It must!

So, how does "seeing" the AOD apply the generation whom Jesus spoke these words to?
When Jesus looked in the eyes of his disciples and said "you shall see the AOD", how did this apply to THEIR LIVES?

You even quoted yourself "what I say to you I say to all..."
Therefore Mark 13:14 was in fact spoken to his first century hearers (they are a part of "all"), so again, since it was spoken to them, how did it apply to them?

Furthermore, this was my challenge:

JLB, I challenge you! Show me one time in the gospels (besides Math.24:34 Mark13:30 Luke21:32) where the phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus, does not refer to his first century contemporary generation!

I said "besides Math.24:34....", yet you used Math.24 as your example?????
You obviously can't give one JLB.
15 times the phrase "this generation" is spoken by Jesus in the gospels besides the above scripture, and NOT ONCE does it refer to any other generation except his first century generation!!!!!

Hope of glory

Jesus prophesied of future events in the Olivet Discourse.

His prophecy pertained to the generation that the signs and events belonged.

As I said -

The first century generation did not see the Abomination of Desolation with the associated Great Tribulation.

The first century generation did not see -

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing
them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.

The first century generation did not see The Son of Man Coming in power and great glory, not did they experience the resurrection of the dead.


Of your examples of Jesus using the phrase "this generation", are those examples Prophecies about the future as well?


JLB

 

[Hope of glory]

3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3

Who does this scripture pertain to, just the ones whom Jesus spoke to, who were present at the time, or does it pertain to all.


They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." Acts 16:31

Is this scripture just for those who heard it, or for all?


33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! 34
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these
things take place. Matthew 24:33-34



This generation refers to the generation that see's the signs that Jesus listed, rather that the first century generation as you claim.

The first century generation did not see the Abomination of Desolation with the associated Great Tribulation.

The first century generation did not see -

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations,
with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing
them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.
The first century generation did not see The Son of Man Coming in power and great glory, not did they experience the resurrection of the dead.

So, there you have it. There is your scripture using "this generation" that certainly does not refer to the first century generation.


JLB

You said "3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Luke 13:3
Who does this scripture pertain to, just the ones whom Jesus spoke to, who were present at the time, or does it pertain to all."

You are proving my point! Read your own words...."who does this scripture PERTAIN TO"?
That's not the issue nor the important question. Of course that scripture "pertains" to all believers, the question is, who was it SPOKEN TO?

It was spoken to the first century audience and therefore it pertains to them and also pertains to us......but it WAS NOT
spoken TO US, we were not there! Are you understanding this.

The same applies for Mark.13:14 "you shall see the AOD...".

This was spoken TO the first century audience (generation) and therefore applies to them as well as to us.....but it was not spoken to us....we were not there!

What you are trying to say is that Jesus' words in Mark 13:14 did not apply at all to his first century generation, but only applies to us......nonsense!!
Because this was SPOKEN TO THEM it must of necessity also APPLY TO THEM in some way or another. It must!

So, how does "seeing" the AOD apply the generation whom Jesus spoke these words to?
When Jesus looked in the eyes of his disciples and said "you shall see the AOD", how did
this apply to THEIR LIVES?

You even quoted yourself "what I say to you I say to all..."
Therefore Mark 13:14 was in fact spoken to his first century hearers (they are a part of "all"), so again, since it was spoken to them, how did it apply to them?

Furthermore, this was my challenge:

JLB, I challenge you! Show me one time in the gospels (besides Math.24:34 Mark13:30 Luke21:32) where the phrase "this
generation" spoken by Jesus, does not refer to his first century contemporary generation!

I said "besides Math.24:34....", yet you used Math.24 as your example?????
You obviously can't give one JLB.
15 times the phrase "this generation" is spoken by Jesus in the gospels besides the above scripture, and NOT ONCE does it refer to any other generation except his first century generation!!!!!

Hope of glory

Jesus prophesied of future events in the Olivet Discourse.

His prophecy pertained to the generation that the signs and events belonged.

As I said -

The first century generation did not see the Abomination of Desolation with the associated Great Tribulation.

The first century generation did not see -

25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing
them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for
the powers of heaven will be shaken.

The first century generation did not see The Son of Man Coming in power and great glory, not did they experience the resurrection of the dead.


Of your examples of Jesus using the phrase "this generation", are those examples Prophecies about the future as well?


JLB

JLB
You again have not addressed anything in my last post.
I clearly show that although Mark 13 does pertain to us, it was not spoken or written to us.....we were not there! The first century generation was the audience and therefore Mark 13 was spoken TO THEM, was written TO THEM and also PERTAINS TO THEM!
Please address how Mark 13:14 applied and pertained to it's original hearing audience.....you can't just say it diddnt pertain to them! It did, so how?

You can't just ignore the fact that Jesus spoke the words "you shall see the AOD" to his first century disciples who heard these words! It most certainly applied and pertained to them and the days they lived in.

Just because you don't understand the fulfillment of Jesus' words does not mean they were not fulfilled......Jesus said they would be fulfilled within his generation (Mark13:30)

Again, concerning "this generation"I challenge you, Show me one time in the gospels (besides Math.24:34 Mark13:30 Luke21:32) where the phrase "this generation" spoken by Jesus, does not refer to his first century contemporary generation!
if you cannot provide one example, then there is absolutely no reason to believe that "this generation" as spoken in the discourses refers to any generation except the first century generation either! (actually, there is no reason to believe this anyways, but at least proving it this way gives a biblical pattern and precedent for proper and consistent interpretation of the phrase "this generation")

You asked "Of your examples of Jesus using the phrase "this generation", are those
examples Prophecies about the future as well?"
Answer: search them as well as their context yourself and you shall see.

Seriously deal with my previous post please and step up to my challenge.

Blessings, Hope of glory