Abomination of Desolation in 70AD

[jasoncran]

the aod that was first in recording did indeed come from jewish compromisers.its recorded that the a man a priest called Jason was a hellenizer and a lover of greek culture and help to pollute the temple. he was slain and that was when antochius ephinese invaded and then the Maccabean revolt began and what he did to the temple was indeed the aod.

I have read that, too. But here is a simple site that I just now looked at. Messianic,
http://jewishroots.net/library/miscellaneous/high_priest_corruption.html

I read in Josephus' War of the Jews, about the Jewish Zealots wrecked havoc during the 70 AD war. They did horrible things to their own people and the temple and the city. He says that the Jewish rebellion against the Romans was what started the whole thing.

It seems the position of High Priest went to the highest bidder. Kinda reminds me of the position of President in the US. Whoever, can raise the most money.

maam, you have just unlocked the mystery of 666 and the mark of whom it was upon. 666 by the gemera was bout nero and also it has a connonation of what the mark was to wit sin with the mind and with the hands. funny how revalation unravels when we look at jewish imagery and meanings.btw nero was called a beast by the roman historians and also the jews then would have heard of this and particuliarly the Christians. he was rumoured to wear dead animal skins and just attack men while he had them stand necked in his courts awaited his well "love" he would then well act like an animal and well I will say no more. its sick.

 

[Deborah13]

the sun, moon, stars just magically come back and nobody writes these things down for History?

Oh, I know exactly where you are coming from. But it has become very apparent to me, that my Western culture thoughts when I read these things, may not be at all what a Hebrew person would visualize when they hear the same words.
For instance....
"We need to move the furniture out of the living room, paint it, and clean the carpet." Gerard says.
"Have you got a frog in your pocket?" I say.
Now Gerard laughs.
Unless you know a little something about the French culture, you don't get it. WE=oui (as in the French language) and Frenchmen being called "frogs".
Or this one happened to me...
Alfred says, "Remember when Bunch broke his wrist at the tank."
I had to think on it, I was there when Bunch broke his wrist, we were all skating at the POND.
Alfred's from Texas....need I say more. lol

When we read words in the Bible we need to remember, those words are from another culture, an eastern culture.
So how and what could the words mean to a HEWBREW, not what they mean to us.

For years, I was going about it ALL wrong. Scripture will interpret itself and history can back it up. It is a wonderful thing, when this happens. Jesus, is not a figment of someone imagination, He is recorded in His story and in history books.

I'm quite willing to listen to others who have put in years of study (not me) and to pray and to read, to see if what they are showing me is true or could be true.
Matthew Henry in his commentary back in the 1800's wrote about 70 AD in reference to Daniel 9. This isn't something new, some new thought. It is what the protestants taught before the idea of a secret rapture was introduced to the Church around 1830.
I have no excuse for my ignorance in this matter, I still have my huge thick Matthew Henry that I have had since 1977 and Unger's Dictionary and I used them a lot. But I never studied End Times, I just believed what I was taught in my AoG church and college coarse we did.

Thank the Lord for using the internet for His purposes, Matthew Henry and others, where I can adjust the ZOOM, I can't see the tiny letters in my old book, just a blur.

Have a blessed day, Mike

 

[jasoncran]

I agree otherwise why doesn't the church teach this?

And the land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt, every one that maketh mention thereof shall be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the Lord of hosts, which he hath determined against it.
18 In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the Lord of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
19 In that day shall there be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord.
20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.
21 And the Lord shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the Lord in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the Lord, and perform it.
22 And the Lord shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the Lord, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.

we teach the third temple in isreal if the above hasn't come to pass what exactly is in Egypt? an altar? or a temple. I thought post cross that the atonement didn't and cant involve lambs, bulls and goats. silly me I take the cross literally. that area and nation is where the lxx was written.there was a temple in elaphatine.

 

[JLB]

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number...

Sorry, but Nero did not perform miracle or keep everyone from buying or selling lest they have the mark.

Just now coming into this technology world wide.


JLB

 

[Elijah674]

The Holy Spirit will guide into all truth??

John 16:13 What a large bunch of truth we hearing from you all today?
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number...

Sorry, but Nero did not perform miracle or keep everyone from buying or selling lest they have the mark.

Just now coming into this technology world wide.


JLB

rome had mean that worshipped the images. they were carried by the roman army. they were bowed to by the soldiers and in temples of the emporer. that is why we get the saying jesus is lord as that is a declaration to the world then that we worshipped jesus as lord. in rome you would say. nero is lord or what ever emporer.buy or sell.? the romans had the coinage. you had to go there it means that you have to justify how they these trib saint live without and sun or moon and get plants and food to eat for their animals. a miracle? and how on the earth that the whole earth lives without a sun and moon. is there a sudden recreation when the millennium occurs? as its mentioned that the shabats will be forever from one NEW moon to another!

Germany forced jews that had money to not be able to use it. funny that is in the 30s and 40s. no technology then. a simple law and a mark.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Hyper/2003_anthony_mark-beast.html
yet you never mention any new moon or earth. how will the food grow?

I add show me where modern Judea is any jew who calls isreal Judea? as that would have to be known to the jews in isreal. they don't call any region in isreal that to my knowledge.

Judea was a region of the roman empire.modern isreal almost emcompasses the range she was in the past.

 

[jasoncran]

from that link
Revelation 13:16 says the Mark will be placed in the "right hand." Again, this is a symbolic term used to denote a position of power. The Lord is said to be at one's "right hand" (Psalm 16:8; 73:23; 121:5, Isaiah 41:13; 45:1; 63:12, Acts 2:25), so the right hand is symbolic for who your Lord is, who you obey. The "right hand" denotes the power of the Lord (Exo.15:6,12, Psalm 16:11; 17:7; 18:35; 20:6; 48:10; 60:5; 63:8; 77:10; 98:1; 118:15-16; 139:10, Isaiah 41:10; 48:13; 62:8, Eze.21:22, Hab.2:16, Acts 5:31), and the power of Jesus Christ (Mat.26:64, Mark 14:62). Jesus is at the "right hand" of the Father (Psalm 110:1,5, Mat.22:44, Mark 12:36; 16:19, Luke 20:42; 22:69, Acts 2:33-34; 7:55-56, Rom.8:34, Eph.1:20, Col.3:1, Heb.1:3,13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2, 1Pet.3:22).
The "right hand" also denotes work (Psalm 78:54; 80:15), and the power of man (Psalm 45:9; 89:13). The "right hand" could be an adversary of the Lord (Psalm 21:8; 89:42, Lam.2:4, Zech.3:1). A right hand denoted falsehood (Psalm 144:8,11). A wise man's heart is at his right hand (Ecc.10:2), and whatever you embrace with the "right hand" is where your heart is (Sol.2:6; 8:3). Similarly to how Jesus places the things he values on his right hand, and the things he despises on his left (Mat.25:33-34), the right hand is symbolic for the things we value more than other things. Is your right hand the mark of obedience to God Law, or to man's law?

"In" or "On"?Some might claim that Revelation speaks of the mark being "in" the hand, whereas other books speak of the mark being "on" their hand. In Revelation 13:16; 14:9, the term "in" is Greek word #1909, epi, and there is no difference between the word "in" or "on". This same Greek word is translated as both "in" and "on" in Revelation 4:2,4; 5:1; 6:5; 7:15; 9:17; 10:2; 13:14; 14:1,6,14-16; 17:8; 18:19, and 20:6. Notice especially Revelation 5:1 for proof that the phrase "in the right hand" does not mean literally inside the right hand. And Revelation 10:2 for proof that "in his hand" does not mean literally inside his hand. And Revelation 14:1, in which the word "in" as used in the phrase "in their foreheads" is translated as "on" in the very same verse!
Are "things" sin?What is sin? Sin is a conscious, willful, intentional act or thought of breaking God's Law. Things, in and of themselves, are not a sin. For example, is accepting a sword a sin? No. It is what you willfully do with the sword that constitutes a sin or not. Is a neighbor's wife sin? No, only the act or thought of adultery with that wife is a sin. If John is in a store, and Mugsy takes a watch from a shelf, and placed that watch in John's pocket without his knowledge, and John walks out of the store with that watch, did John commit a sin by stealing that watch? No, because the watch was forced upon him without his knowing it. Is that watch itself a sin? No. Only acts or thoughts are a sin. Not things. The Bible clearly teaches this. If anyone teaches a verse in the Bible that contradicts this, and teaches that a thing is a sin, and that a Christian can burn in hell for doing something unwillfully, unintentionally, and unconsciously, then that verse in the Bible must be studied, for the Bible does not contradict itself.
Those who say that the Mark of the Beast is literal, and that if anyone takes a mark in their hand or forehead they commit sin, is saying that a thing, the mark itself, is sin. They are saying when this mark is forced upon people, even if they take this mark unconsciously, unwillfully, or unintentionally, then it is still a sin. This contradicts the entire teaching of sin in the Bible. They say, "It does not matter what one does in thought or deed with this mark, because this mark, this thing itself, is sin". They are saying it is no longer what you do with this mark, if you accept this mark, because you are automatically guilty. This is not the teaching of God and his principles

that is from the link. makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Brother Mike]

"We need to move the furniture out of the living room, paint it, and clean the carpet." Gerard says.
"Have you got a frog in your pocket?" I say.
Now Gerard laughs.
Unless you know a little something about the French culture, you don't get it. WE=oui (as in the French language) and Frenchmen being called "frogs".
Or this one happened to me...

Sister, I understand that most of us don't read it as if we were there in the Culture. Salvation did not mean born again if you read the letters back in them days. It meant much more concerning the miracles and power of the Lord Jesus through his Apostles.

When Peter was Ask by what authority or means the man who had been crippled his whole life had been healed.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation (Being rescued, Healed, put in safety) in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved ( heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole).

Every time you see Salvation, or saved, it means the full meal deal, the complete package, the all things become new, Saved from the curse of the law which was sickness, poverty, broken hearts. Now, later, and forever.

Pre-trib Rapture, Post trib Rapture:

Has nothing to do with this, or "That Generation" JBL and I agree all they way up until I have to drag him up with me.

The end of all things Deborah, That generation, the word of God to the World, not just Hebrew folks.

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

The days of Vengeance Deborah. Tribulation!! This is where everything left in the Word of God is fulfilled. The end, that's it, where the Earth gets melted into a big ball of red goo.

Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isa 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.


There is only one period of Vengeance Deborah, Mentioned in the bible. The day of the Lord following. These days are connected with the same events. The land burning pitch, it shall not be put out from generation to generation. None are able to pass through again, forever and ever.

That has not happened yet.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand


The gospel reached the middle east...... This has not happened yet, right in connection with Danial.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

A temple getting knocked over is not worse than Noah's flood or WWII. It's not happened yet.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Same account Luke gave, the sun is darkened and the moon does not give light the stars fall from heaven. NOT HAPPENED YET!!!


Read this!! Hope In Glory wants us to believe this has already taken place in "That Generation" Same event in Luke 21 and Matt 24, the Stars Deborah, look!!
Isa 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
Isa 34:3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

The time of vengeance, this effects all nations, not some area with a temple. That generation will see all this, and more than one Temple is going to be trashed at this time.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

What was their Question Deborah?

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

What are the signs for the END of the World. That is the question Jesus answered.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

It's not about a temple that gets knocked over.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

What is about to happen?

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

These are all the events that Hope In Glory what you to think have already come to pass in a generation long ago in 70ad. Once that 6th seal is released, the stars get rolled up, the sun goes out the moon, Men's hearts fail them. The seventh seal is opened, there is 1/2 hour of silence, people all over the World that are left are trying to hide, Jesus is coming with power and glory. Time is up!!!

It's not about a temple, it's not about some army in 70ad......................... The generation that sees these things know the end is near. It's that generation. It has nothing to do with Pre-trib or Post-trib.

This is what Hope IN Glory wants us to believe already came to pass with only a historic record of some temple getting knocked over. NO, in this time, in that generation, all the temples are going down, everywhere in the World. It's over!!!

I can only give scripture upon scripture all in agreement, all connected and none of them lead to some small event in 70ad where someone got their temple knocked over.

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

ai

"We need to move the furniture out of the living room, paint it, and clean the carpet." Gerard says.
"Have you got a frog in your pocket?" I say.
Now Gerard laughs.
Unless you know a little something about the French culture, you don't get it. WE=oui (as in the French language) and Frenchmen being called "frogs".
Or this one happened to me...

Sister, I understand that most of us don't read it as if we were there in the Culture. Salvation did not mean born again if you read the letters back in them days. It meant much more concerning the miracles and power of the Lord Jesus through his Apostles.

When Peter was Ask by what authority or means the man who had been crippled his whole life had been healed.

Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation (Being rescued, Healed, put in safety) in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved ( heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole).

Every time you see Salvation, or saved, it means the full meal deal, the complete package, the all things become new, Saved from the curse of the law which was sickness, poverty, broken hearts. Now, later, and forever.

Pre-trib Rapture, Post trib Rapture:

Has nothing to do with this, or "That Generation" JBL and I agree all they way up until I have to drag him up with me.

The end of all things Deborah, That generation, the word of God to the World, not just Hebrew folks.

Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

The days of Vengeance Deborah. Tribulation!! This is where everything left in the Word of God is fulfilled. The end, that's it, where the Earth gets melted into a big ball of red goo.

Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
Isa 34:9 And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.


There is only one period of Vengeance Deborah, Mentioned in the bible. The day of the Lord following. These days are connected with the same events. The land burning pitch, it shall not be put out from generation to generation. None are able to pass through again, forever and ever.

That has not happened yet.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand


The gospel reached the middle east...... This has not happened yet, right in connection with Danial.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

A temple getting knocked over is not worse than Noah's flood or WWII. It's not happened yet.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Same account Luke gave, the sun is darkened and the moon does not give light the stars fall from heaven. NOT HAPPENED YET!!!


Read this!! Hope In Glory wants us to believe this has already taken place in "That Generation" Same event in Luke 21 and Matt 24, the Stars Deborah, look!!
Isa 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
Isa 34:3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

The time of vengeance, this effects all nations, not some area with a temple. That generation will see all this, and more than one Temple is going to be trashed at this time.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

What was their Question Deborah?

Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

What are the signs for the END of the World. That is the question Jesus answered.

Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

It's not about a temple that gets knocked over.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

What is about to happen?

Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

These are all the events that Hope In Glory what you to think have already come to pass in a generation long ago in 70ad. Once that 6th seal is released, the stars get rolled up, the sun goes out the moon, Men's hearts fail them. The seventh seal is opened, there is 1/2 hour of silence, people all over the World that are left are trying to hide, Jesus is coming with power and glory. Time is up!!!

It's not about a temple, it's not about some army in 70ad......................... The generation that sees these things know the end is near. It's that generation. It has nothing to do with Pre-trib or Post-trib.

This is what Hope IN Glory wants us to believe already came to pass with only a historic record of some temple getting knocked over. NO, in this time, in that generation, all the temples are going down, everywhere in the World. It's over!!!

I can only give scripture upon scripture all in agreement, all connected and none of them lead to some small event in 70ad where someone got their temple knocked over.

Mike.

so I ask where Is the jew who calls modern isreal Judea? Haifa isn't in Judea, neither is other cities, Ie the quenetra cease fire line in Judea, that is really around Jerusalem why is there NO mention of the other nations outside of isreal. god doesn't want us to know because he doesn't want us to know.tell me why the idea of pre trib rapture doesn't exist in Justin martyr's writing to a jew named trypho? he mentions the temple a lot and also the return of Christ to rebuild it a few times.

ONE MILLION souls dead, that some small number. we lost that in America in ww2. the civil war was even greater then that, yet then I would hardly call one million jews a small number.

 

[Brother Mike]

so I ask where Is the jew who calls modern isreal Judea? Haifa isn't in Judea, neither is other cities, Ie the quenetra cease fire line in Judea, that is really around Jerusalem why is there NO mention of the other nations outside of isreal.

The same place the Seven Churches where in Asia Minor........... ah, it's called Turkey now. It's still on the map by a different name.

tell me why the idea of pre trib rapture doesn't exist in Justin martyr's writing to a jew named trypho? he mentions the temple a lot and also the return of Christ to rebuild it a few times.

This is proving or disproving what Hope in Glory has stated, that the Generation Jesus was speaking about has already come to pass. You can fit a pre or post or any trib you want, it won't change the events. The pre-trib is just an event that takes a group of people at some point, Same with Post trib, but the events surrounding that are all the same.

ONE MILLION souls dead, that some small number. we lost that in America in ww2. the civil war was even greater then that, yet then I would hardly call one million jews a small number.

A time this earth has never seen, and not time like it before. A million dead or even 50 million dead in 70ad won't match the flood that removed everyone but Noah and his family. For that time to be in 70ad with Jesus saying the time is short or no flesh and the worse this Earth has ever seen and will ever see would mean that..........

A) someone did some lousy History keeping.
B) It's not happened yet.

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

so, you wouldn't mind me calling America, well what it named in latin would ya? since that what it is right? amerigo? so if we are all from that region as that is what amerigo Vespucci called it that. but wait none of Judea is called Judea today on any isreali map. so when he meant Judea to them jews to flee where? they would safe today if they fled to say Egypt? or the Negev desert. still called that today. let them in Judea isn't literal to you as that isn't even named on a map of use in modern isrewol.

ah wonderul google earth. I love it man, I use for my meter reading routes I have found relics of things of my ww2 era history. interesting thing is this feed from myriads of sources.

so why would jesus be so vague and use the term Judea when theres no such modern location? if you have google earth show me on the modern map why they the nation of isreal has no tribal regions to it? why is that?

 

[jasoncran]

so I ask where Is the jew who calls modern isreal Judea? Haifa isn't in Judea, neither is other cities, Ie the quenetra cease fire line in Judea, that is really around Jerusalem why is there NO mention of the other nations outside of isreal.

The same place the Seven Churches where in Asia Minor........... ah, it's called Turkey now. It's still on the map by a different name.

tell me why the idea of pre trib rapture doesn't exist in Justin martyr's writing to a jew named trypho? he mentions the temple a lot and also the return of Christ to rebuild it a few times.

This is proving or disproving what Hope in Glory has stated, that the Generation Jesus was speaking about has already come to pass. You can fit a pre or post or any trib you want, it won't change the events. The pre-trib is just an event that takes a group of people at some point, Same with Post trib, but the events surrounding that are all the same.

ONE MILLION souls dead, that some small number. we lost that in America in ww2. the civil war was even greater then that, yet then I would hardly call one million jews a small number.

A time this earth has never seen, and not time like it before. A million dead or even 50 million dead in 70ad won't match the flood that removed everyone but Noah and his family. For that time to be in 70ad with Jesus saying the time is short or no flesh and the worse this Earth has ever seen and will ever see would mean that..........

A) someone did some lousy History keeping.
B) It's not happened yet.

Mike.

its too local to be global, do you realize that rome and china traded and they have found Christian relects from the first century ad in china(Tibet) ?yet how is that possible that bible would just ignore china, the fact that china also knew about America. Chinese junks have been found off san Francisco and they predate the celts and the Vikings!odd if god wanted us to know about something so local to be so global. he is able to speak can he not?

next your idea of a star pick one that is to hit the earth and the earth survives. I mean I like beatleguese that is and old dying star and its 23 times the size of our star and colder and yet if it went buy what would happened to the earth. moon and the sun as we can observe that alpha centaur and promoxi are binary stars. I don't think the earth would last long it would be ripped up quickly. if that is real then show me where god says he makes a new moon and new sun?

given isiah prophecies?
isiah 66

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

if you take that with this.
isiah 60

The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

which is it? he says they are gone and yet then says later they don't disappear. what does that men if both are literal?

 

[Brother Mike]

Jason, I never said a star hit earth, I am not using history, I am not trying to figure out how God puts the sun out, or rolls up the stars. I never mentioned the Sun being gone (Well sort of) but the Word just says it is made dark, the dark reflection turns the moon very dark blood red, and the stars vanish... Poof!!!

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

If you look, there shall be no need of the sun (There) neither the Light of the sun (Meaning it must still be shining)

The 6th seal puts the sun out, it goes dark, something happens to it, the stars are gone............ That is about as far as I got talking about the "Next Generation" thing with everyone. We have possible history of some army invading in 70ad, it's not scriptures but no need to say it did not happen.

My point was that if all the other events also happened such as Hope IN Glory mentioned then it would have been a far greater deal than just some temple being knocked over. Jesus coming with the angels in power and glory would have been mentioned somewhere in the History books. I mean, how do you miss that, but talk about a temple that got knocked over?

The Gospel preached all over the World, they did not even have the means to do that in 70ad, Just like Danial said, our knowledge shall be increased in these last days and we are very close to technology where your pastor can speak normally and everyone all over the World hear it in almost the same time in their own language. We have test software now, and everyone is pushing this Word.

Also all the events connected are from a very angry God at the world, not at some small temple in the middle East somewhere, big events, the end. That is the question Jesus answered for the disciples, what are the signs that lead to the end of the World, and that is what Jesus gave them. The end of the World was not 70ad.

As for the sun? The sixth seal the sun goes out, nothing about it being destroyed, you post the end of Rev where there is a new city that does not need the sun, same scripture in Isa. It appears there is a sun though hanging around. So everything can be taken literal, and I do take the Word literal.

I am not trying to be difficult, not a super Futurist, but focus on "That Generation" and way to much happens in "That generation" to just be some templed knocked over. Jesus was telling the disciples what they asked, and they asked about the end of the World, Not about a temple Jesus mentioned in the verse above that.

I also gave the scripture connection Peter and believers being the precious stone set to the chief corner stone. Jesus said not one stone (them) will be left. He then went and told them what believes should expect.............. I don't think Jesus cared much about some temple being knocked down.

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

The Holy Spirit will guide into all truth??

John 16:13 What a large bunch of truth we hearing from you all today?
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

--Elijah

I hate to say this but you know I'm going to just Have to quit trying to figure out what you are saying. I can't tell what you are calling truth as there are to opposing views being talked about here. Just because your name is Elijah doesn't mean you should talk in riddles like a prophet.

 

[Deborah13]

The gospel reached the middle east...... This has not happened yet, right in connection with Danial.

Well it (the middle east) is where Jesus was born, it's where Israel is. The Muslems, have all the scripture in the Quran, they know about Jesus. They know what the Gospel says about Him. They deny it, the same as the unbelieving Jews.

I'm not into arguing about this. It's not a salvation issue, thank goodness. But I read all the posts and give each thought, not to disprove but to give consideration to,
even when someone is yelling at me Deborah...

And thank you for your indepth response, Michael (Hebrew = as like God)

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, I never said a star hit earth, I am not using history, I am not trying to figure out how God puts the sun out, or rolls up the stars. I never mentioned the Sun being gone (Well sort of) but the Word just says it is made dark, the dark reflection turns the moon very dark blood red, and the stars vanish... Poof!!!

Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

If you look, there shall be no need of the sun (There) neither the Light of the sun (Meaning it must still be shining)

The 6th seal puts the sun out, it goes dark, something happens to it, the stars are gone............ That is about as far as I got talking about the "Next Generation" thing with everyone. We have possible history of some army invading in 70ad, it's not scriptures but no need to say it did not happen.

My point was that if all the other events also happened such as Hope IN Glory mentioned then it would have been a far greater deal than just some temple being knocked over. Jesus coming with the angels in power and glory would have been mentioned somewhere in the History books. I mean, how do you miss that, but talk about a temple that got knocked over?

The Gospel preached all over the World, they did not even have the means to do that in 70ad, Just like Danial said, our knowledge shall be increased in these last days and we are very close to technology where your pastor can speak normally and everyone all over the World hear it in almost the same time in their own language. We have test software now, and everyone is pushing this Word.

Also all the events connected are from a very angry God at the world, not at some small temple in the middle East somewhere, big events, the end. That is the question Jesus answered for the disciples, what are the signs that lead to the end of the World, and that is what Jesus gave them. The end of the World was not 70ad.

As for the sun? The sixth seal the sun goes out, nothing about it being destroyed, you post the end of Rev where there is a new city that does not need the sun, same scripture in Isa. It appears there is a sun though hanging around. So everything can be taken literal, and I do take the Word literal.

I am not trying to be difficult, not a super Futurist, but focus on "That Generation" and way to much happens in "That generation" to just be some templed knocked over. Jesus was telling the disciples what they asked, and they asked about the end of the World, Not about a temple Jesus mentioned in the verse above that.

I also gave the scripture connection Peter and believers being the precious stone set to the chief corner stone. Jesus said not one stone (them) will be left. He then went and told them what believes should expect.............. I don't think Jesus cared much about some temple being knocked down.

Mike.

stars falling out of the sky is listed in the signs and wonders. that is why I said that the sun can go out in a fire, volcanic eruption, meteor strike. a comet hitting the earth.

 

[Brother Mike]

stars falling out of the sky is listed in the signs and wonders. that is why I said that the sun can go out in a fire, volcanic eruption, meteor strike. a comet hitting the earth.

or God with a word can just put it out. I don't think any of the events in Rev are going to have any scientific explanations. I mean creatures with stingers that fly out of a smoking hole to sting everyone can not be explained.

The 6th seal Event puts the sun out, or makes it dark, but it also removes every star from the sky. It does not say the sun gets destroyed, and it won't be the first time the sun was not made to shine. Later we see the sun, but it's not needed by us, as the glory of God lights our great city.

I have not got it all figured out, I don't want to even pretend I know. Concerning "That Generation" however you have to make things a parable, spiritual, or Hyperbole to by pass several events that Jesus said occur in That generation. Hope in Glory said the Sun, moon and stars was Hyperbole. Well, everything you don't want to believe in God's word becomes a parable, spiritual or hyperbole.

By his stripes we are healed is just spiritual healing, no benefit to us, and nobody can tell me what benefit (Spiritual Healing) is because we are born again, all things are new, and given every spiritual blessings in heavenly places. We don't need Spiritual healing, We have the blessings, and all things that pertain to life though the knowledge of Him.

If you don't want to believe in Healing, then you just make it all hyperbole, spiritual, whatever................ just say it's not literal so we don't have to believe anything or hope anything.

That is what Hope in Glory gave me for an answer. Jesus coming, Angels, moon, sun, stars vanishing, mens hearts failing, the vengeance of God on the Word, just a bunch of hyperbole. Why? to prove that someone, somewhere cares about yet another temple getting knocked over for Israels disobedience.

In the process of the mix though you wipe out Jesus answering the question to the disciples about what signs will be for the end of the world, you wipe out the day of the Lord when Judgment comes and people hide from the face of the lamb, and a bunch of other things in order to believe it's all past already.

I did try to reason, the sun, moon stars could have been tied to Joseph's dream, I made suggestions in order to make sense out of it, tried to give the theory a chance, looked at it over and over because Mike don't know everything in hopes there was something there, but in the end it just not possible to account for all the scriptures, not even close.

All the scriptures must be in place, it has to make sense without making it all parables or hyperbole. When we start making things parables, or hyperbole because it does not fit what we want to believe, then we are in trouble.

Mike.

 

[reba]

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?


what do we see when scripture interprets scripture?

 

[JLB]

That is what Hope in Glory gave me for an answer. Jesus coming, Angels, moon, sun, stars vanishing, mens hearts failing, the vengeance of God on the Word, just a bunch of hyperbole. Why? to prove that someone, somewhere cares about yet another temple getting knocked over for Israels disobedience.

ed!

In the process of the mix though you wipe out Jesus answering the question to the disciples about what signs will be for the end of the world, you wipe out the day of the Lord when Judgment comes and people hide from the face of the lamb, and a bunch of other things in order to believe it's all past already.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Gen 37:9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Gen 37:10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?


what do we see when scripture interprets scripture?

We see understanding forming within a person when scripture interprets scripture and a person rightly divides the word.

Like this example you gave, scripture tells us what the interpretation means.


Jesus also when He spoke in parables to the multitudes and Pharisee's, He stated His parabolic teaching, then in private He would explain to His disciples.

When He was teaching His disciples He would say something like; Now hear the parable...

Here in Matthew 24 and 25, the Olivet Discourse, we see that the scriptures tell us -

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

So we know that Jesus had no reason to speak in parables, unless He specifically announced that what He was about to say, was in fact a parable, like in verse; 32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors!

We do not see this phrase before verse 32, so we can conclude that what Jesus taught them up to that verse was straight talk.

Furthermore, in Matthew 25 where Jesus is teaching some parables about His Coming and the end of the age, we see that when He returns He personally rewards each servant and interactsd with them personally when they have been faithful, likewise He also interacts personally with the unfaithful servants and scolds them because they have been unfaithful.

We did not see this happen in 70 AD, because He did not come and stay here and reard His faithful, nor did He scold and punish the unfaithful.

In conclusion, we see in Matthew 25:31 that when Jesus returns this personal dialog that He has with His faithful is from His Throne of Glory, where He sits in Judgment and personally welcomes His faithful to come and be with Him in the kingdom of God,

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.
32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:


as well as personally speaks to the wicked and unfaithful -


41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


This did not happen in 70 AD, because Jesus did not return, nor was it the end of the age.


This is what scripture interpreting scripture teaches me.

How about you? What does Jesus teach you in Matthew 24 and 25?


JLB