What's new
  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest Come and celebrate the birth of Christ by having some ho, ho, ho, holiday fun at the second annual it's the most wonderful time of the year Christmas celebration. Enter Here
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • No longer will OSAS vx OSNAS be allowed to be debated, argued, or discussed in theology forum. Too much time is required to monitor and rescources used to debate this subject which hasn't been definitively decided in 3,000 years.

Abomination of Desolation in 70AD

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
22,201
Gender
Male
Hello Brother Mike

I will repost the following just as a refresher:

(look at Numbers 14 and compare the generation who refused the promised land and were consumed in the wilderness after 40 years of wandering with the generation who refused Jesus (the true promised Land) who were consumed in Jerusalem in 70ad after 40 years of wandering (30-70ad) in an abolished old covenant....this is were I am headed....the beginning of the age and the "end of the age" saw a repeat of history! In numbers 14 is found the "biblical pattern" for a generation being 40 years.....in 30ad Jesus gave his olivet discourse....in 70ad it was fulfilled....a 40 year generation....."this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled.....30-70ad....40 years, one generation, just like the Master said!

Brother Mike, there are some amazing parallels between the first and last generations of the "Mosiac age".

1Cor.10:1-5,11 "Moreover brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and did eat the same spiritual meat, and did all drink the same spiritual drink, for they drank of that spiritual rock that followed them: and that rock was Christ! But with many of them God was nit well pleased, for they were overthrown in the wilderness.....11 Now all these things happened unto THEM for examples, UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF THE AGE ARE COME"

Paul tells his first century generation that the experiences of the "exodus generation" were "examples" (Gr.tupos: a type) for THEM (the first century generation), upon whom the end of the age had come!.....Did you get that, he said the "end of the age" had come upon THEM.....2000 years ago.

Heb.9;26 "But now once in the END OF THE AGE hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself"
Did you get it again? Jesus' perfect sacrifice took place at the "end of the age".....2000 years ago.

Kinda lines up with Jesus' own words and his disciples questions.....
"when shall these things be.....and the end of the age......this generation....."

Anyways, 2 apostolic witnesses place the "end of the age" in the first century.....let's move on.
(Key words are "40 years" "generation" and "wilderness")

Num.14:29 "Your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness, and all that were numbered of you, all those of 20 years old and upward, which have murmured against me....31 But your little ones which you said would be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised 32 But as for you your carcasses, they shall fall in this wilderness 33 and your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcasses be wasted in the wilderness 34 after the number of the days in which you searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, Ye shall bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise 35 I the Lord have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered against me, in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there shall they die".

Because of Israels rejection of the promise land, God sentenced the entire "congregation" to a 40 year wilderness wandering resulting in the death of all who did not believe.

Notice the word "congregation". The NT writers give us a better understanding of what was meant.
Heb.3:9-11 "When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works 40 years. Wherefore I was grieved with that
GENERATION, and said, they do always err in their heart, and they have not known my ways. So I aware in my wrath, they shall not enter into my rest."

With this understanding we see that the unbelieving "generation" wandered in the "wilderness" for "40 years" and were consumed in the wilderness, outside the land of rest.

Brother Mike, you gotta see this!

In 30ad Jesys was crucified, the "generation" he came to largely rejected him and his kingdom (the true land of rest).
Just before Jesus' olivet discourse, Jesus says this "Behold your house is left to you desolate"
Myth Busta, BUSTED! :biggrin


JLB!
 

turnorburn

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
8,714
We should be looking at the abominations thus far how many where and when and by whom. What is considered an abomination in Gods sight and what is The Abomination Of Desolation. We know it has to do with sacrifice an unholy sacrifice, i heard of a Roman general that sacrificed a pig on the alter in BC, that's one, but in our time, the time of the end, can we see a sacrifice being commited by someone, some organization that's offering another sacrifice other than Christ, in place of Christ?

A Hint you don't have to look far..

tob
 

Deborah13

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
14,684
Christian
Yes
Jesus will come a SECOND TIME and stay here on earth.

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:29

I have to understand this verse in context with the verses that come before it.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Please tell me your interpretation of verse 26. Was Jesus crucified "in the end of the world"? I just point this out because of the wording and there is only one clear answer for when Christ died. So anything that has happened since then can be considered to be the "end of the world, end days, end times, end of the age". That's what I think. Anyone is welcome to correct me.

And I do agree with you JBL, that He is coming again as Heb. 9:29 says.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
22,201
Gender
Male
Jesus will come a SECOND TIME and stay here on earth.

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:29

I have to understand this verse in context with the verses that come before it.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Please tell me your interpretation of verse 26. Was Jesus crucified "in the end of the world"? I just point this out because of the wording and there is only one clear answer for when Christ died. So anything that has happened since then can be considered to be the "end of the world, end days, end times, end of the age". That's what I think. Anyone is welcome to correct me.

And I do agree with you JBL, that He is coming again as Heb. 9:29 says.
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

The writer is reaffirming that Jesus Christ as a High Priest is not a mortal that has sins, which has to enter the earth Holy of Holies year after year.

He refers to the advent of Jesus as Messiah as the end of the world [age], as other NT writers, because in the OT He is shown to appear at the end of the age in Power and Glory, which is why He was rejected by most, as they mistakenly thought He would come once at the end of the age, but the writer corrects this notion by His statement in verse 27 and 28, as he is addressing the Hebrew mindset.


JLB
 

Deborah13

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
14,684
Christian
Yes
If you can pull that off then we just rip the book of revelation out of our bibles.

Well in the first place, you have been told before, not all in Revelation has taken place yet. Sheesh....
And while your at it, why don't you tear out Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and parts of several others, because they are His story, past.

Mike, this Book was not written just for our generation. You my brother, where not a twinkle in anyone's eye but God's, when this Book was written.

So what lesson's could we learn from the description of the man of sin (antichrist) standing in God's temple, holy place?
Who are you but the temple of God, you are a Holy Place where Jesus lives. Is at any time the man of lawlessness standing in God's Holy Place in you?
Sometimes he invades God's place in me and I have to rebuke him. "Deborah, you are being a ...., straighten up."

What I'm saying is, is that God always has a message for everyone in ALL of His Word. Past, present, or future.
 

Deborah13

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
14,684
Christian
Yes
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

I know what the context is. and what he was explaining to the Jews. But what does the words say, BUT NOW, ONCE at the end of the ages, ....by the sacrifice of Himself. The author is saying that it was the end of the ages when He did this. That is my point and I wish you would address the prepositional phrase "at the end of the ages." I could take out that phrase without losing the context in anyway. The prep. phrase just gives detail to when this happened.

So what did the author mean by "at the end of the age" by the way it's the same Gk word that is used in other scripture and translated "world". And in the KJV it is translated 'end of the world". So how could it have happened at the "end of the world".

This is the perfect of example of not being able to determine time by certain phrases used in the eastern world, phrases the Hebrews would have understood.
He is referring to Jesus on the Cross, sacrificing Himself. Or is he referring to some future sacrifice?
 

turnorburn

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2007
Messages
8,714
Say ugmug what say, how a bought you get yourself back here and tell these folks why you started this saturday night live sketch..:clap

tob
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
22,201
Gender
Male
So what did the author mean by "at the end of the age"
If this age began with Adam and continues until the resurrection, which will be 6000 years from Adam, that puts the birth of Christ approx 4000 years from Adam, which is two thirds of the way through this age.

Add 33 years to that and you are that much further toward the very end of the age.

Anything past the half way point at 3000 years would be considered the "last half" of this age.

4000 years would be definitely closer to the end than the beginning.

So with that in mind, I would say Jesus was sacrificed toward the end of the age, however He will return at the very end of the age and raise us up on the last day of this age.

After the resurrection, it will be called that age, or the age to come.

If that is what the writer who wrote the book of Hebrews under the direction of the Holy Spirit meant, I don't know? :shrug

What does the Holy Spirit say to you about this matter?



JLB
 
B

Brother Mike

Guest
Sorry, Reba. I apologize. I WAS being snarky!
Great!! Deb is after my job. Sigh............


If this age began with Adam and continues until the resurrection, which will be 6000 years from Adam, that puts the birth of Christ approx 4000 years from Adam, which is two thirds of the way through this age.

Add 33 years to that and you are that much further toward the very end of the age.

Yep, the last 2K years baby!!! Jesus coming started the big countdown.......... Any end of age ends 2,000 years after Jesus................. Time is about up folks.

In these last days, God sent His son to speak to us.................. In the last days!!! (That's a scripture in Heb)

At the time of Jesus, that Aion Started click, click, click.........or tic, tic, tic, or whatever, you get the idea. 2K years and it's getting shorter and shorter.........

Mike.
 

Deborah13

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
14,684
Christian
Yes
What does the Holy Spirit say to you about this matter?

I don't really know either. It's seems to be one of those phrases that they used, so they must have known what he meant. The problem is we weren't little flies on the wall so we could hear the question and answer sessions that I'll bet where a plenty.
But just guessing, seeing Hebrews is teaching them about this change that has happened since the coming of the Lord, he is referring to the end of the Messianic Age. Not the end of the world, not in that verse anyway.
 

jasoncran

Member
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
38,271
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

I know what the context is. and what he was explaining to the Jews. But what does the words say, BUT NOW, ONCE at the end of the ages, ....by the sacrifice of Himself. The author is saying that it was the end of the ages when He did this. That is my point and I wish you would address the prepositional phrase "at the end of the ages." I could take out that phrase without losing the context in anyway. The prep. phrase just gives detail to when this happened.

So what did the author mean by "at the end of the age" by the way it's the same Gk word that is used in other scripture and translated "world". And in the KJV it is translated 'end of the world". So how could it have happened at the "end of the world".

This is the perfect of example of not being able to determine time by certain phrases used in the eastern world, phrases the Hebrews would have understood.
He is referring to Jesus on the Cross, sacrificing Himself. Or is he referring to some future sacrifice?
the end of the law that is what that means or isreal as a nation that does the temple thing.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
22,201
Gender
Male
What does the Holy Spirit say to you about this matter?

I don't really know either. It's seems to be one of those phrases that they used, so they must have known what he meant. The problem is we weren't little flies on the wall so we could hear the question and answer sessions that I'll bet where a plenty.
But just guessing, seeing Hebrews is teaching them about this change that has happened since the coming of the Lord, he is referring to the end of the Messianic Age. Not the end of the world, not in that verse anyway.
Yeah, I know.

We are just stuck here with the scriptures and the Holy Spirit.

Poor us....

Hey. I made a snark too... :tongue


JLB
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
22,201
Gender
Male
26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

I know what the context is. and what he was explaining to the Jews. But what does the words say, BUT NOW, ONCE at the end of the ages, ....by the sacrifice of Himself. The author is saying that it was the end of the ages when He did this. That is my point and I wish you would address the prepositional phrase "at the end of the ages." I could take out that phrase without losing the context in anyway. The prep. phrase just gives detail to when this happened.

So what did the author mean by "at the end of the age" by the way it's the same Gk word that is used in other scripture and translated "world". And in the KJV it is translated 'end of the world". So how could it have happened at the "end of the world".

This is the perfect of example of not being able to determine time by certain phrases used in the eastern world, phrases the Hebrews would have understood.
He is referring to Jesus on the Cross, sacrificing Himself. Or is he referring to some future sacrifice?
the end of the law that is what that means or isreal as a nation that does the temple thing.
isreal as a nation that does the temple thing?

So when they build a new temple, it will be another age?


JLB
 

2020 Hosting Fee

Total amount
$532.00
Goal
$667.40
Top