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About how many here hold some preterism views? - Part 2

digging

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About how many here hold some preterism views?

Hello everyone,

Before I start a topic I'm curious about how many are on this board that hold some preterist views?

I do have a topic I'd like to get some feed back on.

digging

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]51722[/split] by digging Titled About how many here hold some preterism views?
 
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christian_disable

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]51722[/split]
 
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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

JBL,
So your saying that Jesus came in his kingdom in power, glory, with angels and reward; after his followers had been tested, suffered, some if tthem tasting death just 6-8 days later? You can't seperate lk 9:27 from vs 26 and previous verses. You can to yourself, but not to others.

Thus, I'll simply disagree with your interpretation and repoint folks to post 424, 483 and 495.

Beginning here http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=51722&p=814319&viewfull=1#post814319

and here: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=51722&p=815354&viewfull=1#post815354

I believe the point of Jesus telling the time of his coming in his kingdom (in power, glory, with angels and apprving reward) to be before some (all) of them had died (their generation). has been made several times.

I don't see any point in continuing discussiin on this passage or Dan 9.
Thanks for the exposure.

ETD32/70AD
 
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Sinthesis

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Hello everyone,

Before I start a topic I'm curious about how many are on this board that hold some preterist views?

I do have a topic I'd like to get some feed back on.

digging

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]51722[/split] by digging Titled About how many here hold some preterism views?
So what is the topic you would like feedback on?
 

JLB

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

You can't seperate lk 9:27 from vs 26 and previous verses.

24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."


So you think that verse 24-27 are all about Jesus' physical return to earth.

Sorry, Verse 27 says what it says. You are trying to force fit your doctrine into this.

This is the point I made earlier, when i quoted John 21:23.

You try to create a whole doctrine around something Jesus said, that you misunderstand.

21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." 23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?" John 21:21-23

The verses after verse 27, show you the context.

The disciples were show the kingdom of God on the mount of transfiguration.

as verse 27 says - "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

Stop trying to add to God's word!


JLB
 

reba

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Wow the new continued thread a good time to start fresh and be Christ like to one another :) How many Amens can I get?
 

Hope of glory

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

You can't seperate lk 9:27 from vs 26 and previous verses.

24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."


So you think that verse 24-27 are all about Jesus' physical return to earth.

Sorry, Verse 27 says what it says. You are trying to force fit your doctrine into this.

This is the point I made earlier, when i quoted John 21:23.

You try to create a whole doctrine around something Jesus said, that you misunderstand.
21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." 23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?" John 21:21-23

The verses after verse 27, show you the context.

The disciples were show the kingdom of God on the mount of transfiguration.

as verse 27 says - "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

Stop trying to add to God's word!


JLB
JLB, here is my question from my previous post:

Since the disciples only asked questions about Jerusalems destruction in 70ad and not about the "end of the age", and since the context of Jesus' discourse was also only about Jerusalems destruction in 70ad and not the "end of the age", why does Jesus mention the AOD in verse 14 and his "coming in the clouds" in verse 26; both of which YOU CLAIM are future events which will yet happen in the "end of the age"?

Now I will show how your response was completely inadequate in answering my question.
This will be followed with a question which I fully expect you to answer.

You said: "Thinking that Jesus came already is deception."

Answer: thinking that "coming in the clouds" in Math.34:30 refers to his bodily return is deception.
We have already been over this. Jesus is quoting and combining Dan.7:13, ps.110:1, Isa.19:1 ect. to describe his exaltation and vindication as rightful King as well as his judgment decreed upon Jerusalem.

You said: "Thinking the end of the age has come is entertaining deception."
Answer: thinking that the "end of the age" in Math.24:3 refers to the end of the present "church age" is entertaining deception.
We have been over this also.
Age is defined as: a period of time distinguished from others by it's special characteristics (Websters)
Anyone can see that the "Mosiac system" was a "special characteristic" (i.e. sacrifices, priesthood, feasts etc.) which distinguished it's FUNCTIONING time period from others.

The time of the Mosiac system while it functioned was an AGE! (According to the meaning of "age")

The "functioning" of it's "special characteristics" which distinguished it from all other "systems" ended (ceased) in 70ad.
(It was fulfilled and abolished at the cross in 30ad, but it ceased to "function" in 70ad at the end of "that age" (it's age).

Furthermore:

To believe that the words "....you shall see the AOD..." was not directed at the people to whom it was spoken (first century disciples) but to a generation 2000 years in the future
is to "entertain deception"

To believe the words "this generation" did not refer to the then present first century generation but rather to a generation 2000 years in the future is to entertain deception.

To believe that "this generation" means more than one generation is to entertain deception.

To believe the word "all" and "all these things" does not actually mean "all these things" is to entertain deception.

Etc etc etc.....

My point still stands JLB:
In both Mark and Luke Jesus was not asked about the "end of the age" but ONLY about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad!
There was no need to mention the AOD or his "coming in the clouds" if he was only
answering questions about Jerusalems destruction!

The conclusion is that the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" were NECESSARY for Jesus to mention in order to answer his disciples questions regarding Jerusalems destruction.
Therefore, the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" are CONNECTED with Jerusalems destruction in 70ad and "that generation".
Therefore, the "destruction of Jerusalem" the "end of the age" and "his coming" all speak of the same thing at the same time.... Jerusalem's destruction marked the end of that age which was proof that Jesus had been vindicated as rightful King and had judged Jerusalem as rightful judge!

So here is my question to you JLB:
Since Jesus was asked by his disciples in Mark 13 when Jerusalem would be destroyed and what would be the sign that it was about to happen, why would Jesus mention SEEING the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?
 
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reba

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

xo_16:10 And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

Exo_34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

Lev_16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Num_11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.

The Scriptures were pinned by Jewish guys....Meaning guys that knew the OT .... When I think of the ways God appeared to them , right now thinking of the 'cloud' I can help but wonder if the word cloud means something different then those white fluffy things in the sky...
 

JLB

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Since Jesus was asked by his disciples in Mark 13 when Jerusalem would be destroyed and what would be the sign that it was about to happen, why would Jesus mention SEEING the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?
Matthew and Mark, was a private setting with the disciples, as recored.

Luke was not.

You are trying to lump mark and Luke together.

The AOD has nothing to do with the events of 70 AD. You have already admitted that.

I will not continue with you about this same questioning, over and over.

Again, this is my answer, it will not change -

The AOD has nothing to do with the events of 70 AD.

Luke 21 was in the Temple area.

Matthew and Mark took place privately on the mount of Olives!

Do not ask me anymore questions about this line of reason.

If you do I will ignore you.

If you don't agree with me, fine.


JLB
 

Deborah13

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."
Lastly, To encourage them in suffering for him, he assures them that the kingdom of God would now shortly be set up, notwithstanding the great opposition that was made to it, Luke 9:27. “Though the second coming of the Son of man is at a great distance, the kingdom of God shall come in its power in the present age, while some here present are alive.” They saw the kingdom of God when the Spirit was poured out, when the gospel was preached to all the world and nations were brought to Christ by it; they saw the kingdom of God triumph over the Gentile nations in their conversion, and over the Jewish nation in its destruction. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+9:25-27&version=KJV
Quote is from the Matthew Henry Commentary

JLB, I have read every reference to the Kingdom of God. I cannot say that every single one comes close to the interpretation above from MHenry but many do.
Miracles done, Jesus said one had come near to the Kingdom of God. At His crucifixion.
 

Hope of glory

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

xo_16:10 And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

Exo_34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

Lev_16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy
Pplace
within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Num_11:25[SIZE And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
[/SIZE]
The Scriptures were pinned by Jewish guys....Meaning guys that knew the OT .... When I think of the ways God appeared to them , right now thinking of the 'cloud' I can help but wonder if the word cloud means something different then those white fluffy things in the sky...
AMEN, a good example of the "grammatical principle" as well as "scriptural synergy"
 

Hope of glory

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Since Jesus was asked by his disciples in Mark 13 when Jerusalem would be destroyed and what would be the sign that it was about to happen, why would Jesus mention SEEING the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?
Matthew and Mark, was a private setting with the disciples, as recored.

Luke was not.

You are trying to lump mark and Luke together.

The AOD has nothing to do with the events of 70 AD. You have already admitted that.

I will not continue with you about this same questioning, over and over.

Again, this is my answer, it will not change -

The AOD has nothing to do with the events of 70 AD.

Luke 21 was in the Temple area.

Matthew and Mark took place privately on the mount of Olives!

Do not ask me anymore questions about this line of reason.

If you do I will ignore you.

If you don't agree with me, fine.



JLB

JLB, here is my response to your post:

You said: "Matthew and Mark, was a private setting with the disciples, as recored."

I agree

You said: "Luke was not"

Answer: I agree, it was in the treasury with many people including his disciples. (this does not help your position nor hinder mine)

You said: "You are trying to lump mark and Luke together."

Answer: All 3 discourses should be "lumped together". Any 1 discourse alone is an incomplete revelation, but all 3 combined give a full revelation of what Jesus spoke. As for Mark and Luke, these 2 are closer together in revelation than Matthew is to either of
them. Both Mark and Luke ask the "same questions", Matthew's questions are different than both Mark and Luke.

You said: "The AOD has nothing to do with the events of 70 AD. You have already admitted that."

Answer: Nothing is farther from the truth, all who have read my posts know I believe otherwise. All who take Jesus' words "literal" believe otherwise.

You said: "I will not continue with you about this same questioning, over and over."

Answer: Is this the "questioning" you are referring to?
"Since Jesus was asked by his disciples in Mark 13 when Jerusalem would be destroyed and what would be the sign that it was about to happen, why would Jesus mention SEEING the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?

You have not answered this question, it is a "new question" which you choose to avoid for very obvious reasons

You said: "Again, this is my answer, it will not change -The AOD has nothing to do with the events of 70 AD."

Answer: You hold this belief against all logic and scriptural revelation. You have gone so far as to refuse to answer certain questions of mine because they strongly challenge your doctrine.

You said: "Luke 21 was in the Temple area. Matthew and Mark took place privately on the mount of Olives!"

Answer: I agree. Again, this does not help your doctrine or hinder mine.

You said: "Do not ask me anymore questions about this line of reason. If you do I will ignore you."

Answer: It is sad that you have come to this place in your heart rather than dealing with the "very real words" of Jesus and the context in which the discourse was spoken. I encourage you to follow the truth wherever it may lead regardless of denominational traditions JLB. The question I have asked is neither unreasonable nor off topic. Rather, it is a logical question based on the actual context of the disciples questions which any student of the word searching for the truth would "naturally" ask.

Here is my question again. If you ignore it, everyone on this thread will know why, and maybe your ok with that. If you choose to answer it, you have chosen the more noble path and you will be rewarded for your honesty and love of the truth.
As for me, I think you will answer it.

"Originally Posted by Hope of glory
Since Jesus was asked by his disciples in Mark 13 when Jerusalem would be destroyed and what would be the sign that it was about to happen, why would Jesus mention SEEING the AOD and his "coming in the clouds" as part of his answer?"

Thank you JLB for you sincerity in this discussion.

Hope of glory
 
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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

You can't seperate lk 9:27 from vs 26 and previous verses.

24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."


So you think that verse 24-27 are all about Jesus' physical return to earth.

Sorry, Verse 27 says what it says. You are trying to force fit your doctrine into this.

This is the point I made earlier, when i quoted John 21:23.

You try to create a whole doctrine around something Jesus said, that you misunderstand.

21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." 23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?" John 21:21-23

The verses after verse 27, show you the context.

The disciples were show the kingdom of God on the mount of transfiguration.

as verse 27 says - "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

Stop trying to add to God's word!


JLB
Sorry JBL, your answers and perspectives don't fit the reason, context, timing, logic and purposes of the conversations and teaching of Jesus in this passage.

vs 24-26 applies to the suffering and persecution (and some deaths) of those who would continue to follow him. This was primarily under persecution by judaism and the scribes/pharisees beginning almost immediately, (acts 4,5,7,8) then a combined judaic and roman effort under nero. This is supported by other teachings of jesus and OT prophecies posted and included in post 483. Among them are; Deut 32:19; Dan 7:21,25; Isaiah 59:15, 66:5; Matt 23:34; 24:9; Mark 10:39; 13:9-13; Lk 11:49; 21:12-16.

This is further supported and strongly substantiated by his inferral that some (many) would taste death before others (some standing there) would see his coming in the kingdom with power,angels, reward, and his and the fathers glory.

Do we (DO YOU) have any record or inclination to believe that many suffered and were persecuted and died in the 6-8 days between these statements and the transfiguration??

Though the transfiguration may have re-affirmed characteristics, realities, powers and properties of God and the kingdom, the transfiguration is NOT what Jesus is telling them that SOME of them would see before tasting death.


If a yet future (bodily) coming (return) of Christ is taught in scripture, it must be elsewhere, because that, nor the transfiguration, is NOT what is being referred to here.

You, yourself have excluded a yet future return of christ as the scope of these verses (and thus the similar verses in the olivet) (including lk 9:26; matt 16:27; mk 8:38) by declaring that they were fulfilled by the transfiguration. All can see that.

Thanks deborah 13 for the supporting comments.

I may take a break from this repeated dialogue/conversation
 
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Hope of glory

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

You can't seperate lk 9:27 from vs 26 and previous verses.

24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."


So you think that verse 24-27 are all about Jesus' physical return to earth.

Sorry, Verse 27 says what it says. You are trying to force fit your doctrine into this.

This is the point I made earlier, when i quoted John 21:23.

You try to create a whole doctrine around something Jesus said, that you misunderstand.

21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." 23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?" John 21:21-23

The verses after verse 27, show you the context.

The disciples were show the kingdom of God on the mount of transfiguration.

as verse 27 says - "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

Stop trying to add to God's word!


JLB
Sorry JBL, I don't believe your answers and perspectives fit the reason, context, timing, logic and purposes of the conversations and teaching.

vs 24-26 applies to the suffering and persecution (and some deaths) of those who would continue to follow him. This was primarily under persecution by judaism and the scribes/pharisees beginning almost immediately, (acts 4,5,7,8) then a combined judaic and roman effort under nero. This is supported by other teachings of jesus and OT prophecies posted and
included in post 483. Among them are; Deut 32:19; Dan 7:21,25; Isaiah 59:15, 66:5; Matt 23:34; 24:9; Mark 10:39; 13:9-13; Lk 11:49; 21:12-16.

This is further supported and strongly substantiated by his inferral that some (many) would taste death before others (some standing there) would see his coming with power,angels, reward, and glory.

Do we (DO YOU) have any record or inclination to believe that many suffered and were persecuted and died in the 6-8 days between these statements and the transfiguration??

Though the transfiguration may have re-affirmed characteristics, realities, powers and properties of God and the kingdom, the transfiguration is NOT what Jesus is telling them that SOME of them would see before tasting death.


If a yet future (bodily) coming (return) of Christ is taught in scripture, it must be elsewhere, because that, nor the transfiguration, is NOT what is being referred to here.

You, yourself have excluded a yet future return of christ as the scope of these verses (and thus the similar verses in the olivet) (including lk 9:26; matt 16:27; mk 8:38) by declaring that they were fulfilled by the transfiguration. All can see that.

Thanks deborah 13 for the supporting comments.

I may take a break from this repeated dialogue/conversation
good points Endtimes

The futurist lives in a world of "doctrinal confusion" because they fail to discern that the "kingdom is within us"
 

JLB

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

You can't seperate lk 9:27 from vs 26 and previous verses.

24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."


So you think that verse 24-27 are all about Jesus' physical return to earth.

Sorry, Verse 27 says what it says. You are trying to force fit your doctrine into this.

This is the point I made earlier, when i quoted John 21:23.

You try to create a whole doctrine around something Jesus said, that you misunderstand.

21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." 23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?" John 21:21-23

The verses after verse 27, show you the context.

The disciples were show the kingdom of God on the mount of transfiguration.

as verse 27 says - "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God."

Stop trying to add to God's word!


JLB
Sorry JBL, I don't believe your answers and perspectives fit the reason, context, timing, logic and purposes of the conversations and teaching.

vs 24-26 applies to the suffering and persecution (and some deaths) of those who would continue to follow him. This was primarily under persecution by judaism and the scribes/pharisees beginning almost immediately, (acts 4,5,7,8) then a combined judaic and roman effort under nero. This is supported by other teachings of jesus and OT prophecies posted and
included in post 483. Among them are; Deut 32:19; Dan 7:21,25; Isaiah 59:15, 66:5; Matt 23:34; 24:9; Mark 10:39; 13:9-13; Lk 11:49; 21:12-16.

This is further supported and strongly substantiated by his inferral that some (many) would taste death before others (some standing there) would see his coming with power,angels, reward, and glory.

Do we (DO YOU) have any record or inclination to believe that many suffered and were persecuted and died in the 6-8 days between these statements and the transfiguration??

Though the transfiguration may have re-affirmed characteristics, realities, powers and properties of God and the kingdom, the transfiguration is NOT what Jesus is telling them that SOME of them would see before tasting death.


If a yet future (bodily) coming (return) of Christ is taught in scripture, it must be elsewhere, because that, nor the transfiguration, is NOT what is being referred to here.

You, yourself have excluded a yet future return of christ as the scope of these verses (and thus the similar verses in the olivet) (including lk 9:26; matt 16:27; mk 8:38) by declaring that they were fulfilled by the transfiguration. All can see that.

Thanks deborah 13 for the supporting comments.

I may take a break from this repeated dialogue/conversation
good points Endtimes

The futurist lives in a world of "doctrinal confusion" because they fail to discern that the "kingdom is within us"
Preterist's live in a perpetual state of confusion and error, because they don't realize that the kingdom of God is not limited to, being just in us.

God's will is for His Kingdom to come and His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

God's kingdom has come "in us" so that we can bring about the process of restoration of the earth and people around us, showing that God's kingdom has indeed come within us, but is not limited to being in us.

To say that God's Kingdom is ONLY in us, is foolishness of the highest order!


JLB
 

jasoncran

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Sorry JBL, I don't believe your answers and perspectives fit the reason, context, timing, logic and purposes of the conversations and teaching.

vs 24-26 applies to the suffering and persecution (and some deaths) of those who would continue to follow him. This was primarily under persecution by judaism and the scribes/pharisees beginning almost immediately, (acts 4,5,7,8) then a combined judaic and roman effort under nero. This is supported by other teachings of jesus and OT prophecies posted and
included in post 483. Among them are; Deut 32:19; Dan 7:21,25; Isaiah 59:15, 66:5; Matt 23:34; 24:9; Mark 10:39; 13:9-13; Lk 11:49; 21:12-16.

This is further supported and strongly substantiated by his inferral that some (many) would taste death before others (some standing there) would see his coming with power,angels, reward, and glory.

Do we (DO YOU) have any record or inclination to believe that many suffered and were persecuted and died in the 6-8 days between these statements and the transfiguration??

Though the transfiguration may have re-affirmed characteristics, realities, powers and properties of God and the kingdom, the transfiguration is NOT what Jesus is telling them that SOME of them would see before tasting death.


If a yet future (bodily) coming (return) of Christ is taught in scripture, it must be elsewhere, because that, nor the transfiguration, is NOT what is being referred to here.

You, yourself have excluded a yet future return of christ as the scope of these verses (and thus the similar verses in the olivet) (including lk 9:26; matt 16:27; mk 8:38) by declaring that they were fulfilled by the transfiguration. All can see that.

Thanks deborah 13 for the supporting comments.

I may take a break from this repeated dialogue/conversation
good points Endtimes

The futurist lives in a world of "doctrinal confusion" because they fail to discern that the "kingdom is within us"
Preterist's live in a perpetual state of confusion and error, because they don't realize that the kingdom of God is not limited to, being just in us.

God's will is for His Kingdom to come and His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

God's kingdom has come "in us" so that we can bring about the process of restoration of the earth and people around us, showing that God's kingdom has indeed come within us, but is not limited to being in us.

To say that God's Kingdom is ONLY in us, is foolishness of the highest order!


JLB
that is not true. I am a preterist when Christ returns, he will put an end to sin and thus death as well. there will be no need of time.
 

Hope of glory

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Sorry JBL, I don't believe your answers and perspectives fit the reason, context, timing, logic and purposes of the conversations and teaching.

vs 24-26 applies to the suffering and persecution (and some deaths) of those who would continue to follow him. This was primarily under persecution by judaism and the scribes/pharisees beginning almost immediately, (acts 4,5,7,8) then a combined judaic and roman effort under nero. This is supported by other teachings of jesus and OT prophecies posted and
included in post 483. Among them are; Deut 32:19; Dan 7:21,25; Isaiah 59:15, 66:5; Matt 23:34; 24:9; Mark 10:39; 13:9-13; Lk 11:49; 21:12-16.

This is further supported and strongly substantiated by his inferral that some (many) would taste death before others
(some standing there) would see his coming with power,angels, reward, and glory.

Do we (DO YOU) have any record or inclination to believe that many suffered and were persecuted and died in the 6-8 days between these statements and the transfiguration??
Though the transfiguration may have re-affirmed characteristics, realities, powers and properties of God and the kingdom, the transfiguration is NOT what Jesus is telling them that SOME of them would see before tasting death.

If a yet future (bodily) coming (return) of Christ is taught in scripture, it must be elsewhere, because that, nor the transfiguration, is NOT what is being referred to here.

You, yourself have excluded a yet future return of christ as the scope of these verses (and thus the similar verses in the olivet) (including lk 9:26; matt 16:27; mk 8:38) by declaring that they were fulfilled by the transfiguration. All can see that.

Thanks deborah 13 for the supporting comments.

I may take a break from this repeated dialogue/conversation
good points Endtimes

The futurist lives in a world of "doctrinal confusion" because they fail to discern that the "kingdom is within us"
Preterist's live in a perpetual state of confusion and error, because they don't realize that the kingdom of God is not limited to, being just in us.

God's will is for His Kingdom to come and His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.

God's kingdom has come "in us" so that we can bring about the process of restoration of the earth and people around us,
showing that God's kingdom has indeed come within us, but is not limited to being in us.

To say that God's Kingdom is ONLY in us, is foolishness of the highest order!


JLB
JLB, of course "To say that God's Kingdom is ONLY in us, and leave it at that, is foolishness of the highest order; I agree.

I did not say "the kingdom is limited to just being in us".

I will be one of the first to say that the invisible kingdom within us must be released and take on visible expression outside of us.
The Church is his "kingdom come".
What futurists are confused about is that even though they say "the kingdom is within us", they are still waiting on Jesus to return and set up a kingdom. You see the contradiction. We are not waiting on Jesus, he is waiting on us (Eph.4:11-15)
The futurist is like the first century Pharisee, they are always demanding "when will the kingdom come"?
My brother, the kingdom will only come from within the saints, Jesus is nit returning to set it up he is returning to "receive" it and to "deliver it up" to his Father (1Cor.15:20-26)

JLB, you said: "God's kingdom has come "in us" so that we can bring about the process of restoration of the earth and people around us, showing that God's kingdom has indeed come within us, but is not limited to being in us.

Question: How does this "process of restoration of the earth" (which I agree with), fit your view that we are on the verge of wide spread church apostasy and a coming tribulation which apparently destroys the earth finally burns it up?
 

Deborah13

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Wow the new continued thread a good time to start fresh and be Christ like to one another :) How many Amens can I get?
Amen again.

I got a good laugh on myself yesterday.
When you asked if Christians were Gentiles....and I said no. Yesterday it hit that when the Word says the "time of the Gentiles" what that was saying. Dah....
 

reba

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Re: About how many here hold some preterism views?

Well Deb I am not a heathen nor a Jew. When I see the Strong's definition I am not a gentile.... We are Children of the King . Children of the Most High!
 

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